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12V12 Or 8V8 Quickplay


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Poll: 12v12 or 8v8? (492 member(s) have cast votes)

12v12 or 8v8? or both?

  1. Voted 12v12 (99 votes [20.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.12%

  2. Voted 8v8 (228 votes [46.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.34%

  3. Voted 12v12 and 8v8 mixed quickplay (165 votes [33.54%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.54%

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#41 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:09 PM

View PostHGAK47, on 04 March 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:


Im not sure about the spending money part as I have no evidence of that. Totally agree with you otherwise. As much as we are all passionate and opinionated on both sides I would like to think that a fair method would include everyone and I just thought that having a link in the launcher that everyone would see while logging on would be a fair way to do it if PGI wanted an actual representation.

I think we could have our cake and eat it if we all got behind both 8v8 and 12v12, its not perfect but it caters to all. No idea if that could ever happen in terms of the game code etc.. but the idea seems most suited.


New Maps 12x12,Old Maps 8x8, yes this is the best of both worlds.

#42 Brain Cancer

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:23 PM

8v8 QP. Add a 12v12 (no respawn) mode to FP.

#43 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:25 PM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 04 March 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

8v8 QP. Add a 12v12 (no respawn) mode to FP.


Why so 12x12 without respawns? I thought the point of Faction play was the ability to serve a variety of roles with your drop deck?

#44 Liveish

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 10:23 PM

Let keep this on topic, 8v8 has nothing to do with CW/FP only QP.

#45 Kuaron

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 03:53 AM

If it's only about waiting times:

Even in WoT, a much better populated game, at nights on the wrong tiers you can get 7 vs. 7 (instead of 15 vs. 15) battles because the matchmaker is flexible enough and can handle it. Even the old, bad one they scraped last year.

For MWO allowing the MM to pic 8:8 or 12:12 battles depending on the queue would be a significant improvement.

#46 quantaca

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:37 AM

love to see scalable groups (QP and group que) 8v8 to 12v12 depending on population and/or tier (would be even better with a actual working psr). FP with teams (teams not groups/units) scaling up to 16 or 20 depending on map or even competition/enemy would also be awesome but most maps would prob be too small and then there's performance

#47 WarHippy

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:45 AM

I voted mixed because some maps would benefit from being 8v8, but if I had to choose one or the other I would keep it 12v12.

#48 GoatHILL

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:09 AM

View Postlive1991, on 04 March 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:



You got the source for that ?


Karl Berg

#49 Maxx Blue

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:17 AM

I don't recall how many matches I played in 8v8 before the switch happened, but I recall 12v12 generally ended up being better in pug-land where I live. It was still entirely possible to turn the wrong corner and get murdered in 8v8, so less mechs didn't really translate into less insta-death. I also seem to remember that the deathball was much tighter, or maybe less flexible. You tended to get less firing lines and flank movement with 8v8. Folks seemed to stay closer to the core deathball. However, this was also with the old, smaller maps so that had an effect. Maybe it wouldn't be two murder-balls searching for each other on the new big maps. I remember imbalanced drops in terms of tonnage or speed also tended to happen more often in 8v8, but that could be as much due to the old MM as anything.

It would be interesting to see how the new maps played with 8v8 and the current MM. Maybe have a weekend where they switch to 8v8 or just spin up the test server for a week? I mean, if actually getting rid of the third lance is too much work, maybe just drop the 3rd lance as a bunch of the same mech with no pilot attached to them? You know, make Charlie lance 4 Novas or something that just sit there like a mech with a DC'd pilot does. Even if it would be a little annoying to go kill the null-lance after the real fight was over, it would be good enough to figure out how the main fights play out.

#50 Scout Derek

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:13 PM

View PostKuaron, on 05 March 2018 - 03:53 AM, said:

If it's only about waiting times:

Even in WoT, a much better populated game, at nights on the wrong tiers you can get 7 vs. 7 (instead of 15 vs. 15) battles because the matchmaker is flexible enough and can handle it. Even the old, bad one they scraped last year.

For MWO allowing the MM to pic 8:8 or 12:12 battles depending on the queue would be a significant improvement.

Per Se, using something like If the population is less than a certain amount, switch to 8v8 matches, whilest above a certain amount, stay at 12v12.

#51 JaidenHaze

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 06:50 AM

Sooo right now there are 82% in favor of 8v8 instead of 12v12. Yeah ... it was definitely not "overwhelmingly positive".

#52 Scout Derek

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 10:02 AM

290 Votes so far....

I'd like to say thank you to all that have voted, shared, and help contribute to this poll. I really do mean it. If you can, please share this poll with friends, fellow players, and so on. More votes means a better structured opinion of what the community feels on this.

#53 Brain Cancer

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 03:20 PM

View PostSpare Parts Bin, on 04 March 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

Why so 12x12 without respawns? I thought the point of Faction play was the ability to serve a variety of roles with your drop deck?


We already have a 48v48 mode. This would be a smaller scale FP match to go with it.

#54 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 01:04 PM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 08 March 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:


We already have a 48v48 mode. This would be a smaller scale FP match to go with it.


I am open to most changes.

#55 50 50

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 01:38 PM

I voted for the 12v12/8v8 mixed quick play, but feel that when the population is fluctuating that it should even accept 4v4.

It's not about punishing groups or anything like that but simply a mechanism to combat wait times and it should be dynamic.
This should just be a thing for both quick and faction play.
If should just be a simple test every 30 seconds.
Is there enough players for 12v12
No
Is there enough players for 8v8
No
Is there enough players for 4v4
No
Wait another 30 seconds and repeat.

A added bonus that comes from allowing matches of different team/players size is that it creates variety in the games.
4v4 plays differently to 8v8 and to 12v12. So not only would it help wait times, but we get another difference in the combat that will change our experience and gives the game more life as a result.

Should work pretty easily for solo quick play, but to make sure players that form groups do not find themselves in a position where they cannot get a match, groups may need to be limited to 4 (a lance) or allow some way of letting the lances drop individually for a group.

Generally, solo quick play is pretty easy to get matches.
Group and faction play, not so much.

So, with all that in mind, I would request an update to the poll to allow for as much variation as possible within the common lance structure.

#56 Liveish

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:11 PM

View PostGoatHILL, on 05 March 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:


Karl Berg


Link ?

#57 Jiang Wei

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 10:59 PM

Obviously the majority prefers 8 v 8, but there is still a considerable number of players who like 12 v 12.

I see 12 v 12 as just a chaotic mosh pit for plain old daka fun. And thats really about all it can be with the way the game is. Tiny maps, short time limits...

I had more fun playing 8v8 back in beta to be honest. Good pilots were able to stand out more. There was room for some tactics and coordination in premade team play. They went 12 v 12 because it was something they planned to do. It wasnt because people were asking for it. Some people were asking for even more. At the time I had no opinion, because I didnt know what to expect. But after playing 12v12 for a long time now, I do miss 8v8. I dont always like playing in a mosh pit with no tactics.

Its nice that you made a poll for this, but I have zero expectation that PGI will do it.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 11 March 2018 - 11:01 PM.


#58 HGAK47

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:22 PM

View PostJaidenHaze, on 06 March 2018 - 06:50 AM, said:

Sooo right now there are 82% in favor of 8v8 instead of 12v12. Yeah ... it was definitely not "overwhelmingly positive".


I dont know what poll you are looking at but the one right here in this thread has 171 votes for 8v8 at a 52.62% share. You cannot automatically count in the mixed 8v8 and 12v12 votes as 8v8 only votes. Thats not how it works lol.

#59 Throe

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:26 PM

View PostIshanDeston, on 02 March 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

I said it before, i say it again. Anyone that votes for 8v8 as a means to see less X-0's is delusional.

One lemon on your team of 12 accounts for 8ish % of the overall teams skill level. While one lemon on a team of 8 accounts for 12% of the teams skill level. Its akin to playing a match with a mech that only brings half its allotted guns. or those joke builds of Direwolves with 12 Tag lasers.

There is not going to be more tactical gameplay by removing 1 of each weight class. you will not see more light vs light matches, and you will not see more Assault vs assault trades. You will not see more flanking maneuvers with fewer mechs. And having one lemon on your team will impact the teams performance so much harder.

Its a terrible idea. to limit quickplay like that. If they want to do it in other play modes or give it as option.. sure why not. But why would i want to deliberately hamstring myself by increasing the total importance of each team members performance, when we all already agree that the current tier system isn't sufficient enough as metric for matchmaking.


Your math is flawed, but even if it was correct, your conclusion is lacking. Firstly, that 1 potato on your team is only ~12% of your team's allotment of firepower if they brought a 70 ton+ 'Mech. All lighter 'Mechs represent an effectively smaller portion of your team's firepower allotment *on average*, since the matchmaker does attempt to balance teams' tonnages as well as PSR.
Secondly, as concerns the conclusion from that data, you're assuming that we will have the same percentage of potatoes per team as we have now in 8v8. The smaller match sizes allows the matchmaker to match a smaller group of players together, so the skill difference per match should necessarily narrow as a result. So if we have enough players queued for one Tier 1 match of 8v8, and two tier 4 matches of 8v8, then we'll see those matches, rather than two 12v12 matches of a mixed bag of players in each match. So yes, this will absolutely reduce the occurrence of X - 0 matches.

And the primary reason PSR doesn't work very well is because the top tier of players in MWO is so small compared to the total population. As an example, we could probably increase the number of PSR tiers by a factor of 3, with a linear skill distribution, and end up with Tiers 1 through 7 being *extremely* low population(so low that getting a match in those tiers during certain hours of the day would simply be impossible if the current rules were enforced(i.e. Tier 1 never plays with Tier 5 or under). Reducing match size helps to mitigate this problem, and does exactly nothing to exacerbate it.

Implementing this as an option players could choose exclusively(like the old tickbox system for game modes) actually exacerbates all of these problems, since it will split the queues that much further, so it must be all quick play solo queued players or none of them.

Edited by Throe, 12 March 2018 - 03:28 PM.


#60 Scout Derek

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:15 PM

I just wanted to say it again;

Please get your friends, unitmates, and others to vote. More votes means a better formulated opinion, and a better estimate of the population's opinion means an accurate need/want in the game.





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