352 replies to this topic

[kuma8877]

The Piranha's main threat is its twelve Series XII Rotary Machine Guns. These are a serious threat to any foe on such a speedy 'Mech, especially if a Star of Piranhas operate in a pack, and such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly. They are most deadly, however, to unarmored infantry, capable of wiping out an entire company in seconds.

Edited by kuma8877, 07 April 2018 - 08:30 AM.

[FupDup]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

PGI pre-nerfed the MG twice before the release, they increased spread and reduced crit.

I think those changes were more tied to the Mist Lynx and Arctic Cheetah new MG boat variants, but in general yeah it's been causing issues for MG balance.

[Abisha]

FupDup, on 07 April 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Canon or not, it should've been pretty obvious that it would cause issues with MG balance because of its unique capability.

if they are cannon why not give heavy/assaults weapons to counter them for example Medium based lasers, Cannons and or MG's. (and not overflow assaults with ghost heat like hell)
they should die by even looking at them they should not be enough to freaking tank like a assault then and have speed to match

Edited by Abisha, 07 April 2018 - 08:33 AM.

[Yondu Udonta]

Omg the weapon doesn't need to be nerfed, the critting does. I've had games where my rear ST was opened up by a strike and a damn PIR in the rear with LMGs took out everything inside the ST from 400+m. Sometimes I think PGI needs to play their game more.

[kuma8877]

Abisha, on 07 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

if they are cannon why not give heavy/assaults weapons to counter them for example Medium based lasers, Cannons and or MG's. (and not overflow assaults with ghost heat like hell)
they should die by even looking at them they should not be enough to freaking tank like a assault then and have speed to match

...you don't have weapons to counter them because YOU chose not to.

[Nightbird]

Crit damage should be based on range like regular damage. Right now, even if a weapon is hitting you at maximum range, for 0.00001% of optimal damage, it will do 100% of normal damage in crit damage to your equipment. This is what is allowing MGs to crit you out instantly at ranges where they couldn't remove 1 point of armor if they used up all their ammo.

[Abisha]

kuma8877, on 07 April 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

...you don't have weapons to counter them because YOU chose not to.

i think you need to play more, you happens to know that most assault mechs not have more weapon ports of 6 even sometimes no more then 4? that's also mostly with lasers or missiles.
so no most assaults not have the luxury of anti light weapons or simple lack the twist to be efficient.

Edited by Abisha, 07 April 2018 - 09:33 AM.

[kuma8877]

Abisha, on 07 April 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

i think you need to play more, you happens to know that most assault mechs not have more weapon ports of 6 even sometimes no more then 4? that's also mostly with lasers or missiles.

Huh? Did you miss the part of MWO where you select your own loadout.... for better or worse. And where assaults and heavies can mount enough firepower in those slots to Alpha away most mechs in the blink of an eye. I think you need to play more. A lot more.

Edited by kuma8877, 07 April 2018 - 09:37 AM.

[Abisha]

kuma8877, on 07 April 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

Huh? Did you miss the part of MWO where you select your own loadout.... for better or worse. And where assaults and heavies can mount enough firepower in those slots to Alpha away most mechs in the blink of an eye. I think you need to play more. A lot more.

yes having a 30 Ton space left on a assault is good game play.... role eyes in sign
can better play a light mech then that you can fit 12 MG and own anything within 2 seconds.

Edited by Abisha, 07 April 2018 - 09:40 AM.

[Duncan Aravain]

I just consider this another ebb and flow in the ocean of tears caused by PGI's game development and implementation.

[kuma8877]

Abisha, on 07 April 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

yes having a 30 Ton space left on a assault is good game play.... role eyes in sign
can better play a light mech then that you can fit 12 MG and own anything within 2 seconds.

And here I figured with "all" that seat time in assaults, you would've learned a thing or two about them...

And the strongest PIR is the Cipher not the 1 which is only packing 6 MGs, what do you make of that?

[Scyther]

I've generally found you can judge how OP something was by how many people scream when it eventually gets nerfed.

(Just for clarity, I don't actually care about MGs and Piranhas/Lynxes in their current state, mostly because I don't play enough to be bothered by them.)

Honestly, anyone who didn't see a nerf coming to a system that allows a 20-tonner to run 14 DPS at MG range or 12 DPS at LMG range, mostly without heat issues... hasn't been paying attention.

As for 'whiners got it nerfed!', people posting their 'look at my awesome results' threads probably weren't whining, and this thread: https://mwomercs.com...an-mg-analysis/ from almost a year ago, in which their effectiveness 'when massed' is pointed out, and Chris shows he is already paying attention to them - is way ahead of the recent whinging.

I joked earlier about adding ghost heat, but actually ghost heat on >4 MGs could work. Or turning down the multiplier, or whatever. But something was obviously going to be done at some point.

[Abisha]

MadBadger, on 07 April 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

I've generally found you can judge how OP something was by how many people scream when it eventually gets nerfed.

(Just for clarity, I don't actually care about MGs and Piranhas/Lynxes in their current state, mostly because I don't play enough to be bothered by them.)

Honestly, anyone who didn't see a nerf coming to a system that allows a 20-tonner to run 14 DPS at MG range or 12 DPS at LMG range, mostly without heat issues... hasn't been paying attention.

As for 'whiners got it nerfed!', people posting their 'look at my awesome results' threads probably weren't whining, and this thread: https://mwomercs.com...an-mg-analysis/ from almost a year ago, in which their effectiveness 'when massed' is pointed out, and Chris shows he is already paying attention to them - is way ahead of the recent whinging.

I joked earlier about adding ghost heat, but actually ghost heat on >4 MGs could work. Or turning down the multiplier, or whatever. But something was obviously going to be done at some point.

they should never have made the Pir they should have left it alone with the arrow.
when do we see a 40 slots assault with fitted with only small pulse lasers?.

[Nightbird]

kuma8877, on 07 April 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

And here I figured with "all" that seat time in assaults, you would've learned a thing or two about them...

And the strongest PIR is the Cipher not the 1 which is only packing 6 MGs, what do you make of that?

QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Nightbird, 07 April 2018 - 10:26 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Abisha, on 07 April 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

they should never have made the Pir they should have left it alone with the arrow.
when do we see a 40 slots assault with fitted with only small pulse lasers?.

*Cough* Executioners *Cough*

*Wheeze* *Cough* Gargoyle *Cough*

And we all know what happen in that story.

[kuma8877]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gosh durnit, gots to shut my trap!

[Variant1]

JackalBeast, on 06 April 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

No. The problem was the crit system. Pir is a 20 ton piece of glass that can carry 12 .25 ton weapons, woo-hoo.
Here we go again.

Yeah that 12.5 ton weapons that do jack dmg small range and backstabs against unaware oponents. crit is not the problem its the boating that is.

Krivvan, on 06 April 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

What if the nerf directly addresses something like the high crit-ability against equipment?

Crit is the only thing going for mgs right now. Its best they get a rof reduction and cone larger after mroe than 4 mgs are equiped to curb boating them

JackalBeast, on 06 April 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

JUST. ADJUST. THE. CRIT. SYSTEM. FOR. MGS.

heck no. if you armor is exposed that part is already gone. Any other weapon woudl to the same, mgs only thing going for them is crits.

GrimRiver, on 06 April 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

Reduce it's crit effectiveness per MG added?

Make MG's more inaccurate(COF) per MG added?

you sir have found a way to make the mg boat not as effective i agree with you. But the cap should be after 4 mgs

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

No MG itself has big issue in regards to its critting. This is just like the time when PGI nerfed LRMs even when they were bad, cause both LRMs and MGs are not fun to fight against, due to certain part of their mechanics--even if the weapons themselves are considered not OP. Which is why HGR nerf might also be coming soon.

If the structure is exposed than that component is already gone, a med pulses or lasers woudl destroy it. Mgs just destroy equipment. Lets not homoginize a unique weapon for that.

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Except MGs are too good at critting. Doesn't matter if I have 15 HP AC10 in that torso, MGs crit it out in less than a second once structure is exposed.

Isint that the point? they do so little damage to armor. Any other weapon would just destroy the component so it makes no difference other then losing the guns and keeping the torso

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:

Doesn't have to be that way. Critting can be reduced in return for slight damage boost. Also, IS MGs need to be buffed heavily.

Reducing the crit change would mean mgs would be to rng focused. Mg dmg would have to buffed by alot then to compensate

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

If the whole "crits are not fun" thing is an issue, why don't we just scrap the whole "mgs are crit seekers" idea PGI has been pawning off on us and just remove MG crit boosts but raise base MG DPS? Then people don't get their weapons insta critted out but MGs still remain viable weapons for shooting people in the rear and killing them with?

6 MPL Wolfhound kills an Annihilator in two shots, takes 4 seconds to do that, so the basic MG should have 1.5 DPS, making the Piranha equal in killing power to the Wolfhound while being faster but much much less tanky and trading no heat for ammo requirement, less range, spread, and facetime. Wolfhound still comes out a bit ahead tbh, but whatever.

Raising the dmg would mean small laser and small pulse are now outcompeted by mgs. Keep crit just make them less effective after equiping a certain amount like 4+ or 5+

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

People have been saying that for years, but PGI does not listen.

I can see why nerfing the crit and adding would be bad. It would either make it outperform small lasers or it would be to rng focused/weak

jeez make up your mind people do ya want mgs to do 1.5 dmg a second or stick to the crit seeking? 1 will render small pulse and small laser inefective the other means your guns is gone. If ya dont find that fun well think about this if that armor is exposed its gone anyways agains other weapons that do far more damage i think mg crit seeking should stay. Its the only reliable way of removing guns without killing a mech and it makes the weapon unique. Just buff is mgs so they are better than clan mgs imo
Also i think this is something that poll worthy: should mgs do 1.5 dmg but have very low crit, or keep them the way pgi intended(crit seeking)

[Kalimaster]

The problem here is that it's still a NERF. The community here, and players in general are sick and tired of NERFING for reasons of balance. We would like to see a few buffs instead, or methods that would allow a slight buff here or there. Not Constant and Consistent NERF. At this rate, the only thing that will be useful is a real NERF gun.

[Scyther]

@Kalimaster:

Well actually what you are seeing is the reaction to the machine gun buff, followed by new MG types, followed by the spread nerf, with new 12x, 8x and 6x MG lights tossed into the mix. The state of the game changes over time.

Edited by MadBadger, 07 April 2018 - 11:18 AM.

[Black Ivan]

Sigh, why is PGI always nerfing with the hammer instead of solving the problem a ka the Mech