352 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

"Maybe it doesn't need those structure quirks on the legs"

LOL, YA THINK?!

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 10 April 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

The MG's crit bonuses are the reason mass MG boating has been a problem. If they'd replace the crit bonus with just bonus damage to structure (or heck, a straight damage buff) MG boating wouldn't be an issue.

The problem with just a straight damage buff is that it's just the same boring "same old, same old". Why can't (sub)weapon types do something different for a change?

[Nightbird]

One volley of streaks and a Piranha is done. Why don't people carry them then? Because lights are not truly a threat to anyone. If they were, you wouldn't see 40-50% people waiting in queue as assaults, and 10% as lights.

[UnKnownPlayer]

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

One volley of streaks and a Piranha is done. Why don't people carry them then? Because lights are not truly a threat to anyone. If they were, you wouldn't see 40-50% people waiting in queue as assaults, and 10% as lights.

And that is the problem right there, assuming that QP is the true test of mechs and not FP.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 10 April 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

Based on what objective metric? The belief that TT's crit system is the golden balanced baseline to aspire towards is a preference or opinion. Not a fact.

It's kind of both, the distinction is that most current mechs can't carry enough MGs to take advantage of their mechanics. That doesn't mean that the base MGs don't have that capability, it just means that the number of platforms which can fully leverage them is a very short list.

It's kind of like how twin PPC + twin Gauss was never a concern at all until the Dire Whale showed up.

With that being said I would prefer the Piranha just get some quirk nerfage rather than risk collateral damage against other "innocent" mechs like the Shadow Kitty and Viper.

If lights were occupying 25% of the queue, with the Piranha occupying 50% of that, I would agree.

But with lights occupying only 10-15% ...

[HGAK47]

LOL

Just.......

lol

I Give up.

[Nightbird]

UnKnownPlayer, on 10 April 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

And that is the problem right there, assuming that QP is the true test of mechs and not FP.

In FP Piranhas are less potent than in QP, since you can predict when they're brought out and can be countered with streaks, and it's also harder to flank in FP.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 10 April 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

The problem with just a straight damage buff is that it's just the same boring "same old, same old". Why can't (sub)weapon types do something different for a change?

MGs are plenty different without the crit bonus. What other weapon fires continuously with no heat generation or cooldown?

[Bud Crue]

Yosharian, on 10 April 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

"Maybe it doesn't need those structure quirks on the legs"

LOL, YA THINK?!

FYI:
In regard to the upcoming nerfs, Chris specifically said:

"If I was to be going after the Piranha specifically, its existing leg structure quirks would be the first thing on the chopping block not the Machine Guns. (Maybe something worth looking into later if people feel like the Piranha specifically is an issue.)
As I said in the stream, what is being targeted is it's performance against alternative weapons within a similar tonnage range, while also minding the baseline balance between the Clan version of the weapon compared to its IS counterpart that comes in at double the tonnage."

According to this position as articulated by the balance overbeing, the Piranha and its leg structure, are for the moment, just fine. The position is that Clan MG performance... not 12 MGs, not a few variants boating MGs, not any particular mech or variant that carries MGs, but merely clan MG performance on its face, needs some sort of yet unknown nerf so as to account for its individual performance relative to IS MGs and alternative clan weapons within a similar tonnage range (e.g other ~.25 ton clan weapons).

So according to the devs, and their presumed laser like monitoring of in game performance, the Piranha 1 is no more OP than a Viper running 4 MGs or any other MG running clan mech. C MGs vs IS MGs vs C .25 ton weapons is the issue nothing else. If you believe Chris then the Piranha and its feeble leg structure are safe from the nerf hammer.

Edited by Bud Crue, 10 April 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[Duncan Aravain]

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 02:12 PM, said:

One volley of streaks and a Piranha is done. Why don't people carry them then? Because lights are not truly a threat to anyone. If they were, you wouldn't see 40-50% people waiting in queue as assaults, and 10% as lights.

Just had a match where my MDD armed with Beagle Active probe and Targeting computer plus 4 streak SRM 6 engaged a running Piranha in the water (no intervening terrain) and well within max range (no failure to hit). It took 3 full volleys to drop the Piranha and at least 15+ seconds of action, something that a second Piranha did to me soon afterwards in the match in less than 5 seconds.

One volley?!...............maybe if one full boated a Cyclops with 7 Streak SRM6s.

[Nightbird]

Well, there are 0 IS MG Lights that are good or very good, whereas Clans have the myst lynx, cheeta, and now piranha, so unless some capable IS MG lights are add to the game we're going to see some HUGE nerfs.

Duncan Aravain, on 10 April 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Just had a match where my MDD armed with Beagle Active probe and Targeting computer plus 4 streak SRM 6 engaged a running Piranha in the water (no intervening terrain) and well within max range (no failure to hit). It took 3 full volleys to drop the Piranha and at least 15+ seconds of action, something that a second Piranha did to me soon afterwards in the match in less than 5 seconds.

One volley?!...............maybe if one full boated a Cyclops with 7 Streak SRM6s.

Why do you not have 6 Streak6s? User error. Also, Targeting Computer gives no bonuses to streaks.

Edited by Nightbird, 10 April 2018 - 03:01 PM.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Well, there are 0 IS MG Lights that are good or very good, whereas Clans have the myst lynx, cheeta, and now piranha, so unless some capable IS MG lights are add to the game we're going to see some HUGE nerfs.



Why do you not have 6 Streak6s? User error. Also, Targeting Computer gives no bonuses to streaks.

my commando begs to differ....

yes i know it dosnt have MG's but its a powerhouse

[Duncan Aravain]

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Well, there are 0 IS MG Lights that are good or very good, whereas Clans have the myst lynx, cheeta, and now piranha, so unless some capable IS MG lights are add to the game we're going to see some HUGE nerfs.



Why do you not have 6 Streak6s? User error. Also, Targeting Computer gives no bonuses to streaks.

So to prevent or reduce Piranha attacks, all one needs to do is boat 6 Streak SRM6s......sounds easy😉

[Grus]

Duncan Aravain, on 10 April 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

So to prevent or reduce Piranha attacks, all one needs to do is boat 6 Streak SRM6s......sounds easy������

no, had a Shadow hawk with 2 Assrm4's take apart my PIR fairly quickly.

[Nightbird]

Duncan Aravain, on 10 April 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

So to prevent or reduce Piranha attacks, all one needs to do is boat 6 Streak SRM6s......sounds easy������

3 is enough, his Mad dog only had 4 Streak6s, a travesty!

[Mystere]

Duncan Aravain, on 10 April 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

Just had a match where my MDD armed with Beagle Active probe and Targeting computer plus 4 streak SRM 6 engaged a running Piranha in the water (no intervening terrain) and well within max range (no failure to hit). It took 3 full volleys to drop the Piranha and at least 15+ seconds of action, something that a second Piranha did to me soon afterwards in the match in less than 5 seconds.

One volley?!...............maybe if one full boated a Cyclops with 7 Streak SRM6s.

Nightbird, on 10 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Why do you not have 6 Streak6s? User error. Also, Targeting Computer gives no bonuses to streaks.

Hmm. I did not need 6 SSRMs6's during the Piranha event. 4 were plenty enough.

[Grus]

unfortunately clan streaks and srm's spread all over the place even with Arti.. IS versions dont have that hindrance.

Edited by Grus, 10 April 2018 - 03:17 PM.

[Duncan Aravain]

Grus, on 10 April 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

unfortunately clan streaks and srm's spread all over the place even with Arti.. IS versions dont have that hindrance.

Did not know of the Clan/IS difference, thanks for the info.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Grus, on 10 April 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

unfortunately clan streaks and srm's spread all over the place even with Arti.. IS versions dont have that hindrance.

Wait, what? I wasn't aware of any difference between Clan and IS streaks' tracking capability.

[OrmsbyGore]

kuma8877, on 08 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

While I could agree with you in a general sense, the problem is, you have the base game (BT) that defines universal rules in the fiction. In this case, according to the rules that define mech combat in the BT universe, mech mounted MG's are as effective at range, as AC2's against that same future armor. So, regardless of whatever weapon system we use to extrapolate our thought experiment out into the future with, the fact remains, that in this fictional universe, MG's are combat effective against mechs, armor and infantry.

So, do the machine guns do the same amount of damage per shot or per ton of ammo? If the former, yeah, mg's would be ridiculously OP if they behaved like rapid-fire AC2s at short range. Per ton of ammo, that seems far more reasonable (and less intimidating)