147 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

I don't really have a preference on sharing info, I would however hate to see Solaris divisions always consolidate to 1 or 2 mechs and builds. Please fix that.

[Akillius]

PGI make a players solarius mech build and skill tree 2 separate settings for them to opt-out of showing to other players.

There's been many good reasons that those players feel strongly about already brought up.
- Seeing a weak ammo location instead of making them guess.
- Skill Tree optimized per a players taste has no reason for scrutiny by others who play differently.
- Highly-probable build/skill tree harassment issues by a few narrow minded players.
- Less build variaty of mechs in solarius if everyone is just blindly copying a few mech builds to avoid being harassed.

Seeing other's mech builds was a bug, there is no reason to see those stats before and there is no valid reason now.

[Horseman]

Max Rickson, on 27 April 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

PGI make a players solarius mech build and skill tree 2 separate settings for them to opt-out of showing to other players.

Agreed, but like you said - opt-out rather than opt-in. Just knowing the build is not enough to give an outright advantage, IMO.

[Tarogato]

Not sure why so many people are concerned about the player card giving away things that can be used against them (such as XL engine).

When somebody gets into a match against "Lambdatron", you're not physically able to go and look him up to see that he has an XL engine with ammo in his left torso. You're in a match, you simply can't access playercards. Also, you can't look up players by name, only rank. There's hundreds or thousands of people playing Solaris - I'm not going to go memorise everybody's builds in the 1% chance I get a match against Lambdatron the average ranked player.

The only people that should be concerned are the people who are at the top 10 of the leaderboards. And the people who achieve that rank didn't do it just because of their mechlab or skill tree. They got there because they know how to pilot a mech, and they're still going to win against somebody running an exact copycat build.

Edited by Tarogato, 28 April 2018 - 12:32 PM.

[Tarogato]

Paul Inouye, on 26 April 2018 - 04:40 PM, said:

And yes, Tarogato's layout is nice.. but might have to compromise with location info... other than that I'm really liking the generic skill tree info rather than the full layout.

For what it's worth, I'm suddenly getting a lot of pushback comments from people who would rather no information shared at all. To leave it how it is (show weapons list, and nothing else. No mechlab access. No engine, no skill tree, etc.)

These people spent tens of hours perfecting mechlabbing and skill tree'ing technique, and they'd rather keep their secrets to themselves because they put in the time. Or only share the fruits of their efforts as an opportunity for direct social interaction between players, rather than allowing them to be given away for free.

Whether or not more information should be available is not an easy decision to be taken lightly.

[MovinTarget]

This is why i settled on saying paper doll is fine. You see the offensive info, figure out yhe rest on your own. If you learn your variants, you'll know that the weapons would most likely be oriented in a certain way...

[Rick T Dangerous]

It should be the players choice if others can peek into their kitchen. And if it's too complicated to make it player's choice, then it should be as intended, not as the bug made it, i.e. info on player's card only, no access to mechlab and/or skill tree.

[Igor Kozyrev]

While you're taking feedback, I wanna share some thoughts.

First, can you explain the watch list? How does it work? Does it show all high elo matches, or only for selected divsion? Both 1v1 and 2v2 show up on the list? Are both teams/opponents should be above the elo threshold or only one to be on the list?

Then, if you wanna be seriuos about high elo matches in solaris, there must be a publicly available log for each player with their battles. It should include both opponents, their elos at the time of fight and maybe elo changes after the fight. It would be nice if leaderboards were available on website too as for the quickplay.

Then, solaris announcer doesn't work correctly. Situation: my elo is 450+ points higher than opponent's, my winlose is ~10 times higer, opponent dies 35 seconds into a match and what do I hear from our belowed Dunkan? Oh, I hear this: "This match has literally 50/50 chance of going either way. Let's get started!". Again, AFTER I KILLED THE OTHER GUY.

I'm not sure, but there's a long pause between events and announcer's reactions. I suspect it is due to server's delay? Is it not processed on the client, but on server? I say to hell with synchronization, give us faster (and more accurate) announcer comments.

As an idead for future: some best-of-[number] mode would be appretiated. Or maybe a rematch button.

Also, I don't think you can report people from end of game screen. I've heard some headshotting aimbot tales.

ps again, show complete builds and weapon trees

Edited by Igor Kozyrev, 28 April 2018 - 10:32 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Personally I liked being able to see the builds in the mechlab. I think the upside of shared information so the metagame can progress quickly is bigger than the downsides.

[0111101]

Piling on with my opinion.

Leave it as it is currently. Running the best build(s) is only half the battle, the other (more important) half is being able to outperform the competition with it.

Newbies or scrub-veterans aping the builds they find at the top of the leaderboard aren't going to suddenly become good at the game just because they were able to reverse engineer a loadout, but it just might accelerate their learning curve and get them to stick around and improve their play.

[Paul Inouye]

Tarogato, on 27 April 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

Whether or not more information should be available is not an easy decision to be taken lightly.

Hence the original design of just showing weapons/location and that's it. But at the same time, the general build info you laid out in your outline does that as well. Yes, it does show more information.. but it's not showing the critical parts of exact positions/armor values etc. What might be a bit extreme is displaying STD/XL/LE information. That is direct target information for some chassis. Engine size just says if it's fast or slow in speed/agility, but the type, like I said is about where to target for fastest kill in the case of XL.

That being said... again, EVERYONE who has piped in, thanks for your comments. Continuing to read in here and trying to make sure things are kept fair but at the same time (and I believe this as many of you do) that this REALLY helps lower skilled/newer players learn how to build 'Mechs to not only be competitive, but functional in all areas of MWO.

Now some big news... while I'm not going to detail what I've got done, but my #1 priority design responsibility right now is to get COPY/PASTE and possibly SHARING of 'Mech builds and Skill Tree layouts working as a big quality of life improvement in the UI. Knowing that this is in the pipeline, does that change your thoughts on this?

Again, I'm not going to allow full access to EVERYTHING in another player's build/Skill Tree. But with the ability to potentially share builds/Skill Tree does open up the notion that it's not a huge leap to show the base layout of a 'Mech/Skill Tree for a given player's current Solaris build.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:14 PM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:14 PM.

[Ch_R0me]

Paul Inouye, on 30 April 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

(...)

Now some big news... while I'm not going to detail what I've got done, but my #1 priority design responsibility right now is to get COPY/PASTE and possibly SHARING of 'Mech builds and Skill Tree layouts working as a big quality of life improvement in the UI. Knowing that this is in the pipeline, does that change your thoughts on this?

I hope we'll get something a'la Export to Smurfy, Kitlaan etc.

[Horseman]

ManganMan, on 01 May 2018 - 02:18 AM, said:

I hope we'll get something a'la Export to Smurfy, Kitlaan etc.

Or, for that matter, Import from

[MovinTarget]

Paul Inouye, on 30 April 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Hence the original design of just showing weapons/location and that's it. But at the same time, the general build info you laid out in your outline does that as well. Yes, it does show more information.. but it's not showing the critical parts of exact positions/armor values etc. What might be a bit extreme is displaying STD/XL/LE information. That is direct target information for some chassis. Engine size just says if it's fast or slow in speed/agility, but the type, like I said is about where to target for fastest kill in the case of...

Except that most veterans can math out in their heads the probability of a STD/LFE/XL just by seeing the weapons loadout/position of a given mech since heat sinks and ammo comprise a very smal portion of the mech's tonnage and to some degree, its space.

I am in favor of paper-doll level info, don't get me wrong, i just don't want us to kid ourselves about how much info can be gleaned from what is shared.

[El Bandito]

It should not be like that revealing. Guessing where each components lie is challenge in itself.

[Surn]

I was for this feature, but after facing only meta mechs in every division I have changed my mind.

Because of this feature players are forced to use meta instead of their favorite or fun mechs.

The divisions are already so metafied that the few non-meta mechs are designed to beat the meta in specific settings. This then limits the map selection to either meta or counter meta.

I play and enjoy a few meta mechs, but in some divisions they are just boring. Division 3 for example is 65% the same King Crab.

[Horseman]

El Bandito, on 01 May 2018 - 03:55 AM, said:

Guessing

AKA: knowing the hardpoints by heart.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:38 PM.