hgauss allows IS to approach parity
let's nerf that too!
20
Patch Notes - 1.4.169 - 15-May-2018
Started by InnerSphereNews, May 11 2018 03:26 PM
572 replies to this topic
#102
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- Ace Of Spades
- 222 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:45 PM
Also, 60 point laser alpha with no ghost heat. WHO IS YOUR GOD NOW?
#103
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- Bad Company
- 831 posts
Member
- LocationOn a frozen rock .....
Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:46 PM
Hey, PGI, not too happy about the laser changes, especially being able to fire only ONE HLL.... not too happy at all.....
IS anyone there who makes these decisions regularly playing the game? What is the use of firing ONE laser of any type?
Dumb, very dumb......
I see another hiatus coming soon......
IS anyone there who makes these decisions regularly playing the game? What is the use of firing ONE laser of any type?
Dumb, very dumb......
I see another hiatus coming soon......
Edited by Ensaine, 11 May 2018 - 07:47 PM.
#104
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- WC 2018 Top 12 Qualifier
- 6 posts
Rookie
Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:47 PM
stop nurfing... seriously all your doing is killing peoples desire to play ... ive said it time and time again for many games in the past... if you nurf.. the players feel like you are STEALING from them... if you BUFF.. that that needs to be.. then they feel your giving to them.... BUFF not nurf....... quite frankly this has killed a huge amount of my will to play this game and has on top of that ensured im far less likely to spend money on it....
#105
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- Ace Of Spades
- 222 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:57 PM
nerfing is way easier. Why make 500 mechs and weapons slightly more capable when you can trash one weapon system?
Edited by Holy Jackson, 11 May 2018 - 08:00 PM.
#106
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- 1,783 posts
Member
- LocationUA
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:17 PM
Dear PGI, I kindly ask to cancel nerfs to clan lasers, Mad Cats, Annies and Fafnirs or no more money. Feedback over o7
#107
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- The Dragoon
- 1,444 posts
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- Google+: Link
- LocationA fog where no one notices the contrast of white on white
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:24 PM
Now that the Timber Wolves have been nerfed into the ground, it's time to un-fun the Mad Cat mk.II's, right? Oh, and in case you like clan lasers, we're gonna bend you over on that one too.
PGI, if you're going to make ghost heat more punishing for clans... you know, does it even matter what I say or suggest?
How about this, PGI. Please couple the engine back to movement, at least. So, if you decide to put a big engine in a mech, it becomes appropriately more agile. At least do that.
--- activating cool shot -----
Okay, gonna try again. PGI, if you're going to nerf clan lasers further, then at least un-nerf some other clan values in exchange. And for the love of God, the few clan mechs that remain fun and effective - why do you keep making them less fun? I don't get it. I just don't get it. So many better solutions than pushing our favorite mechs further into the ground.
PGI, if you're going to make ghost heat more punishing for clans... you know, does it even matter what I say or suggest?
How about this, PGI. Please couple the engine back to movement, at least. So, if you decide to put a big engine in a mech, it becomes appropriately more agile. At least do that.
--- activating cool shot -----
Okay, gonna try again. PGI, if you're going to nerf clan lasers further, then at least un-nerf some other clan values in exchange. And for the love of God, the few clan mechs that remain fun and effective - why do you keep making them less fun? I don't get it. I just don't get it. So many better solutions than pushing our favorite mechs further into the ground.
#108
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- Ace Of Spades
- 1,113 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:37 PM
Paul Inouye, on 11 May 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:
Spoiler
Ugh, can i get all the investment, cbills, gxp back i spent on leveling a CTF-4X PXH-1K and VND-1X refund them all thanks.
Can you tell us stuff like ""we may be making changes to divisions mid season" at the start of the season instead of dropping it on us, can we get info on accolades, is it exponential forever for each rank ? or theres a max rank ? or it stops being exponential? will it reset each season ?
D V Devnull, on 11 May 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:
Spoiler
That Comic needs a "then the free workers stop playing and find a game that works that **** out b4 they dump it on live"
The following 'Mechs have had some of their Arm Structure and Max Armor Points re-distributed from their Arm Locations into their Torso locations:
- Jagermech
THE JAGERMECHS arm armor is already too low >_< this game balance is a DARTBOARD
Edited by Cadoazreal, 11 May 2018 - 08:37 PM.
#110
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- CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
- 17,987 posts
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- LocationSnow
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:42 PM
It wouldn't be so bad, if when nerfing something 33-50%, you also buff them
When you only nerf, you remove it from play
Nerf the fun out of it
Removing it as an option, making the pool of viable mechs smaller.
Kinda
You touched the Mk2-1 marginally, and its 2ERLL 2 ERML 2 Gauss loadout, unaffected
Likewise the Deathstrike with +2 MLs, but with double the twist distance nerf (still better than the KDK3)
However, my Ice Fridge?
You killed the SPLs before it could be a monster (hypothetically a top contender!)
You now killed its only fallback weapon, 5-6 ERMLs
It has 9 tons of pod space, you can't expect it to use much else
So, you've barely affected one of the top mechs in the game, yet further gimped a comparatively useless mech
PGI can into balance?
Personally, I'd have just dropped damage and adjusted duration/heat/cooldown appropriately
Reduce TTK, while only marginally affecting overall gameplay
But removing 33% the effective firepower of a given mech? #PGIplzno
Buffing some of those existing worthless weapons could also do wonders. Remember the "Temporary" 2.0 damage SRMs? Yeah...not so temporary, because buffs were NECESSARY
When you only nerf, you remove it from play
Nerf the fun out of it
Removing it as an option, making the pool of viable mechs smaller.
Kinda
You touched the Mk2-1 marginally, and its 2ERLL 2 ERML 2 Gauss loadout, unaffected
Likewise the Deathstrike with +2 MLs, but with double the twist distance nerf (still better than the KDK3)
However, my Ice Fridge?
You killed the SPLs before it could be a monster (hypothetically a top contender!)
You now killed its only fallback weapon, 5-6 ERMLs
It has 9 tons of pod space, you can't expect it to use much else
So, you've barely affected one of the top mechs in the game, yet further gimped a comparatively useless mech
PGI can into balance?
Personally, I'd have just dropped damage and adjusted duration/heat/cooldown appropriately
Reduce TTK, while only marginally affecting overall gameplay
But removing 33% the effective firepower of a given mech? #PGIplzno
Buffing some of those existing worthless weapons could also do wonders. Remember the "Temporary" 2.0 damage SRMs? Yeah...not so temporary, because buffs were NECESSARY
#111
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- The Death Wish
- 1,166 posts
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- Twitch: Link
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:54 PM
Nema Nabojiv, on 11 May 2018 - 08:17 PM, said:
Fafnirs
Uh... The Fafnir's recieving a buff. CT was already the weakest point in the design.
So sorry to hear you'll be missing out MW5, though.
Edited by Catten Hart, 11 May 2018 - 08:54 PM.
#112
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- The Cub
- 3,031 posts
Member
- LocationAlshain V
Posted 11 May 2018 - 08:54 PM
Yea only able to fire 2 Heavy Larges before was not that bad, now only 1? Who brings 1 Large laser on a mech besides a light?
The med nerf? really is 6 Er meds that OP? That kills so many mechs that really were not that bad...Yet guess what does not address the over performers like oh the Mk II DS ppl claim running a 80 point Alpha using 4 ER MEDs and 2 ER LRGs...Yet nerfs mine that I only use 6 Er Meds to be able to bring JJ's?
If you insist on this I really suggest ATLEAST reduce the burn times to compete with IS cause we will lose both Alpha AND duration now to them so GL in those trades....
Please PGI with these laser changes...
re-look at better options, you are killing so many low performing mechs with this then anything uber meta.
The med nerf? really is 6 Er meds that OP? That kills so many mechs that really were not that bad...Yet guess what does not address the over performers like oh the Mk II DS ppl claim running a 80 point Alpha using 4 ER MEDs and 2 ER LRGs...Yet nerfs mine that I only use 6 Er Meds to be able to bring JJ's?
If you insist on this I really suggest ATLEAST reduce the burn times to compete with IS cause we will lose both Alpha AND duration now to them so GL in those trades....
Please PGI with these laser changes...
re-look at better options, you are killing so many low performing mechs with this then anything uber meta.
Edited by CK16, 11 May 2018 - 09:00 PM.
#113
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- The Marauder
- 32 posts
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- LocationLondon
Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:21 PM
Thanks PGI for killing MWO a little bit more... Ok, going back to Battletech. Cya
#115
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- Guardian
- 584 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 09:50 PM
InnerSphereNews, on 11 May 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:
Structure / Max - Armor Redistribution:
The following 'Mechs have had some of their Arm Structure and Max Armor Points re-distributed from their Arm Locations into their Torso locations:
All 'Mechs in a player's inventory affected by this change will have their armor re-set to the stock values.
PLEASE CHECK YOUR 'MECHS BEFORE YOU DROP!
In the event that the stock values would render the 'Mech over tonnage, the 'Mech would be flagged as an invalid build. Both of these can be manually re-adjusted in the 'Mechlab.
Structure / Max Armor Redistribution Design Notes:
All 'Mechwarrior games have attempted to honor as many of the core mechanics found in the very descriptive Battletech Universe as possible. But sometimes these mechanics do not translate well into the First Person Simulation setting. Among those mechanics are the core structure/armor distribution rules and how that relates to the 'Mech art. In Battletech, there is never a distinction between individual body locations and the art that represents them. Within those game environments, the chance to hit an arm location is always equal, regardless of how the art depicts the 'Mechs. And as such you are just as likely to hit the arms on a Jenner as you are the arms of a Mandrill. This is something that simply does not translate one-to-one into a 3D Shooter environment. As such, many 'Mechs depicted in the Battletech universe as having very short and stubby arms often, as a result, see overall larger torso geometry, as well as having hit locations with a pool of health much greater then they need to before they often find their torso's being destroyed within the context of MechWarrior Online. So while a Jenner in the Table Top game may see 28% of hits go to arm locations, while 47% go to torsos, In our game, this could be skewed as only 20% of hits go to the arms, and 55% of hits go to the torsos when accounting for the physical shots against the 'Mech model's art.
We want to see an improvement to this to assist those 'Mechs that often do see their art come with very stubby appendages that often leads to more prominent torso locations while staying true to the overall structure and armor distributions depicted within the Battletech Lore. In the 'Mechs above, we are shifting a number of their base arm structure points from the arms and into torso locations and with it, their total available "Max armor." For this initial roll-out, we are only going to alter five 'Mechs across all weight classes that have seen smaller arms result in larger torso locations. Each of them has had their structure and armor re-distributed in a way that best compliments the needs of the physical 'Mech geometry while maintaining the same overall health pool. We will be monitoring this change closely and will consider other 'Mechs getting a similar treatment to them in a future patch depending on the impact of this change on the targeted chassis'.
The following 'Mechs have had some of their Arm Structure and Max Armor Points re-distributed from their Arm Locations into their Torso locations:
- Jenner
- Jenner IIC
- Cicada
- Jagermech
- Stalker
All 'Mechs in a player's inventory affected by this change will have their armor re-set to the stock values.
PLEASE CHECK YOUR 'MECHS BEFORE YOU DROP!
In the event that the stock values would render the 'Mech over tonnage, the 'Mech would be flagged as an invalid build. Both of these can be manually re-adjusted in the 'Mechlab.
Structure / Max Armor Redistribution Design Notes:
All 'Mechwarrior games have attempted to honor as many of the core mechanics found in the very descriptive Battletech Universe as possible. But sometimes these mechanics do not translate well into the First Person Simulation setting. Among those mechanics are the core structure/armor distribution rules and how that relates to the 'Mech art. In Battletech, there is never a distinction between individual body locations and the art that represents them. Within those game environments, the chance to hit an arm location is always equal, regardless of how the art depicts the 'Mechs. And as such you are just as likely to hit the arms on a Jenner as you are the arms of a Mandrill. This is something that simply does not translate one-to-one into a 3D Shooter environment. As such, many 'Mechs depicted in the Battletech universe as having very short and stubby arms often, as a result, see overall larger torso geometry, as well as having hit locations with a pool of health much greater then they need to before they often find their torso's being destroyed within the context of MechWarrior Online. So while a Jenner in the Table Top game may see 28% of hits go to arm locations, while 47% go to torsos, In our game, this could be skewed as only 20% of hits go to the arms, and 55% of hits go to the torsos when accounting for the physical shots against the 'Mech model's art.
We want to see an improvement to this to assist those 'Mechs that often do see their art come with very stubby appendages that often leads to more prominent torso locations while staying true to the overall structure and armor distributions depicted within the Battletech Lore. In the 'Mechs above, we are shifting a number of their base arm structure points from the arms and into torso locations and with it, their total available "Max armor." For this initial roll-out, we are only going to alter five 'Mechs across all weight classes that have seen smaller arms result in larger torso locations. Each of them has had their structure and armor re-distributed in a way that best compliments the needs of the physical 'Mech geometry while maintaining the same overall health pool. We will be monitoring this change closely and will consider other 'Mechs getting a similar treatment to them in a future patch depending on the impact of this change on the targeted chassis'.
The hell is this PGI? One of the few things that keeps me interested in this game is that it stays relatively true to BT, but this.... You can't just change the base armor of mechs from CBT! Give them armor/structure quirks if you have to, but leave base armor/structure alone! That's what these quirks are for anyway, to give mechs that have bad hitboxes better survivability! Especially on the Jager. Why take armor away from the location it carries most of its firepower in? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever!
#116
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- The Deadly
- 136 posts
Member
- LocationLondon
Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:03 PM
Did ya check the DPS and other weapon stats of the gun you nerf, Pgi? Not just the pure damage numbers on paper? Heavy lasers have an insane burn time and you have to keep em on target in one spot to do real harm. Enemy moves or twists, damage gets spread everywhere... But let the IS have dual heavy gauss **** with pin point insta damage, lasers that cool down so much faster that they can shoot them almost twice in the same time a clan laser fires... It is not about the pure DMG numbers of the heavy lasers, so much more kicks in. And with the med lasers, how would you run e.g. a laser ice ferret now? The mech is DEAD with the ghost heat nerf and some other mechs, too... Thanks PGI, perhaps you should play your own game more often and not listen to IS fanboy Russ, who is always drunk anyway
#117
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
- 362 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:05 PM
Koniving, on 11 May 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:
I could make an attempt. 1 HLL is 18 damage. That's fine. 2 HLL is 32 damage. That's fine. But then you got 2 HLL (32) + 6 ER ML (60) = 92 damage... and you're still powered on and built well, maybe you're at 70% heat so in about 6 seconds you do it again without shutting down. Insta-gib from 400+ meters. Not only that but pull this off in 4+4+6 (14) tons. Oh and no ghost heat currently for that combination. Now, you can do 1 HLL + 5 ER ML for 68 damage alpha. Its 9 tons. Also if that limit is just on HLL and not going to other large lasers then... Then you can soon combine 2 LPL + 1 HLL + 5 ER ML = 20 + 18 + 50 = 88 (but requires an extra 7 tons to pull off for a total of 6+6+4+5 = 21 tons). We could get around the BULL of it all if we had an ALL INCLUSIVE GHOST HEAT... but ghost heat 2.0 aka Energy Draw was shut down by the players... so instead of "3 HL is good, so long as nothing else is firing at the same time", we got "No more than 1 HL, no more than 5 ER ML, no more than X of Y... But you can fire all these together without punishment." End result: Rainbow colored Laser vomit.
The heavy large laser will trigger ghost heat on the large pulse lasers cooking yourself alive. The 5th er medium will also trigger ghost heat. The game clumps weapons together. 8 micros is fine, but 7 micros and one er medium will result in large ghost heat.
#118
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- The Wolf
- 172 posts
Member
Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:13 PM
Gartenlaube, on 11 May 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:
Did ya check the DPS and other weapon stats of the gun you nerf, Pgi? Not just the pure damage numbers on paper? Heavy lasers have an insane burn time and you have to keep em on target in one spot to do real harm. Enemy moves or twists, damage gets spread everywhere... But let the IS have dual heavy gauss **** with pin point insta damage, lasers that cool down so much faster that they can shoot them almost twice in the same time a clan laser fires... It is not about the pure DMG numbers of the heavy lasers, so much more kicks in. And with the med lasers, how would you run e.g. a laser ice ferret now? The mech is DEAD with the ghost heat nerf and some other mechs, too... Thanks PGI, perhaps you should play your own game more often and not listen to IS fanboy Russ, who is always drunk anyway
^
so much for PGIs comment on "let's achieve balance with small incremental steps"
if you wanted to nerf the laser vomit Hellbringer, you could have done so in SO MANY WAYS without affecting all the other clan laser mechs.
standard load out for laser vomit Hellbringer is 2 HLL and 4 erML right?
SO WHY NOT LINK HLLs AND erMLs SO THAT YOU CANT FIRE 6 AT ONE GO?
THAT WAY YOU DONT KILL 6ML MECHS!
AND THATS JUST ONE SOLUTION!
seriously. what do you guys have inside your heads?
cause it aint a brain thats for sure.
and Russ and Chris have the cheek to go on podcasts and sound like they know what they are talking about?
PGI instead of making changes that encourage people to improve their game play by working together, listening to VOIP calls, thinking about positioning, LEARNING TO BLOODY TORSO TWIST...
all you are doing is pissing off whats left of your good player base and rewarding useless potatoes who refuse to improve their game play and then winge about being killed instantly because they refused to follow calls and decided to face the enemy team alone.
heres a tip:
HOW ABOUT CONSULTING YOUR CHAMPION PRO TEAMS AND USING THEIR FEEDBACK, BECAUSE THE SOLUTIONS THEY HAVE BEEN SUGGESTING SOUND A LOT BETTER THAN THE CRAP YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN PUTTING OUT.
for example. EMPs PrtNspz has suggested a simple yet effective solution to 12 mg Piranha cancer.
simply limit the maximum stacking effect of crit chances on mgs.
see? not that hard to think about simple solutions that dont randomly kill off every other mech right?
PGI your refusal to listen to better suggestions shows not only how incompetent you are, but how insecure you are as well.
Edited by Dungeon 206, 11 May 2018 - 10:20 PM.
#119
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- The Solitary
- 1,540 posts
Member
- LocationI'm still pissed about ATMs having a minimum range.
Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:16 PM
If the laser nerf wasn't there, this would be an excellent patch... As-is, I'm probably not even going to play this game after the patch. (and I rarely if ever use laser vomit) Removing variety and making half the mechs in the already limited Clan arsenal effectively useless (including the about to be released Blood Asp) does not make the game fun.
#120
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- The Howl
- 144 posts
Member
- LocationPoland
Posted 11 May 2018 - 10:33 PM
People did ask for ghost heat change like this for months. It happens, it will bring end to disgusting laser apha vomit and really just change damage dispersion on energy focused mechs. All good things for the game - people whine again.
Not to happy about the armour changes. Not sure how it will affect Annihilators but I'm preatty sure I will need to change my Division 2 mech from Atlast to something else to compete with Kodiaks.
Also no change to Piranha and MLX division...? It was crucial for Division 2 to be fully fun experiance, without troll matches where a little mech is humping your leg and you can't do anything about it.
Not to happy about the armour changes. Not sure how it will affect Annihilators but I'm preatty sure I will need to change my Division 2 mech from Atlast to something else to compete with Kodiaks.
Also no change to Piranha and MLX division...? It was crucial for Division 2 to be fully fun experiance, without troll matches where a little mech is humping your leg and you can't do anything about it.
Edited by Garran Tana, 11 May 2018 - 10:40 PM.
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