572 replies to this topic

[TheNostalgicSlav]

I like how all of the Clan changes were removed and it was stated that "Oh we need to possibly test this on the PTS" but still went ahead with the 'balance' on the IS side. If the PTS is so needed, maybe both sides could use it just for fairness sake.
I'm going to reference the patch notes and the thinking that was stated in the patch notes about the Annihilator. The entire point of the Annihilator is to be a battering ram and a sudden death to anything that tries to engage it 1v1. The entire point of the Annihilator is to excel in a typical 1v1 situation and to be focused my multiple mechs. Even then an LRM or an ATM boat could easily do significant damage to it. Piranhas delete anything that show their backs to, that includes Annihilators and also the popular Dual Heavy Gauss builds carry the risk of them being critted out on top of the long cooldown between spurs of damage, which only reinforces the fact that it was meant to be taken down by a multiple of people, which severely decreases it's lifetime and optimal engagement outcome. It's big, it's mean and a major target.

Also, you say that you don't want to reduce the HP of the Atlas....so you decrease the CT armor quirk and redistribute it into the STs, which contradicts that statement. Not only because of the reduction, but because the CT is the mostly targeted part of the Atlas, the majority of the hitbox on the Atlas is the CT and hence this only serves to once again reduce the tanking power of a already quite underpowered mech compared to other options in the same class. While the overall value change is negligible, it's still worth pointing out.

I did agree with the proposed change to the Clan lasers before that magically got pulled the day after the notes were released. It made sense since the Clan lasers are superior to IS lasers in pretty much every way. Damage, range. Even the longer cooldown isn't really an issue since it kind of helps with the heat management and just tells you to hide behind cover for a while before you can poke again. And to do all that without a penalty for firing a high number of them at the same time is quite astounding. As a primarily an assault/heavy player, I am more afraid to engage a laser boat Hellbringer or a similar clan laser boat heavy or medium than a Kodiak. The pinpoint damage alpha that happens in such a short time cannot be competed against with Ballistics or Missiles due to their nature and IS Lasers simply perform worse in a poking match.

I am also a bit upset about the resizing of the horn bolt-on for the Firestarter. It was goofy and didn't really hurt or benefit anyone except being just a fun thing that in my opinion actually made the Firestarter cooler. And I do hope the Black Knight will receive the ability to equip a sword in the hand like the Centurion does. It just makes sense to do that.

Was quite looking forward to spending some MC...but I think I'll hold and wait and see what happens with this whole 'Clan' thing.

Edited by TheNostalgicSlav, 17 May 2018 - 03:47 AM.

[Uakari]

The solaris queues are empty, take back that 3 min wait time please.
It s just annoying nothing else and drives the players away from it.

People tend to hop on a game like 30 seconds before the timer goes to zero, and they only do so when there is already someone else in the queue.

And there is the insane odd number thing of course, which might make you wait for 6 minutes. No one stays in the queue for that long.

[Ninjah]

PGI, how come er small lasers make more heat than heavy small lasers? Putting 4 heavy small on Arctic Cheetah with 2 Smr4s = 1.3 Heat while 4 er small with 2 Srm4 = 1.27. Looks like your game is falling apart a little?

[Knighthawk26]

OK, It looks like PGI instantly removed the nerfs to Clan lasers. Or they forgot to update the ghost heat warnings in the mechlab. My clan mechs with 2 heavy large lasers and/or 5 ERML's don't have any ghost heat warnings.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Ninjah, on 17 May 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

PGI, how come er small lasers make more heat than heavy small lasers? Putting 4 heavy small on Arctic Cheetah with 2 Smr4s = 1.3 Heat while 4 er small with 2 Srm4 = 1.27. Looks like your game is falling apart a little?

No, that's normal, because the ER smalls fire faster, therefore they produce more heat over time.

[Dee Eight]

Ninjah, on 17 May 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

PGI, how come er small lasers make more heat than heavy small lasers? Putting 4 heavy small on Arctic Cheetah with 2 Smr4s = 1.3 Heat while 4 er small with 2 Srm4 = 1.27. Looks like your game is falling apart a little?

They don't make more heat. Don't confuse the heat management ratio with actual heat generated. The ratio includes the cooldown/duration values and heat sink cooling rates. ER Smalls recycle and shoot faster than heavy smalls, thus... they do more ticks of heat per second and tax the cooling rate of your total heat sinks greater. The ER Small is 3.5 heat with a 3.5 second cooldown and 1.1 second duration whereas the heavy small is 3.75 heat with a 4 second cooldown and 1.2 second duration. The ER is about 0.76 heat per second of total cycling time and the Heavy is 0.72 heat per second. THUS... the heat management ratio is worse with the ER smalls...

Honestly how did you achieve tier 1 without learning that by now ?

Edited by Dee Eight, 17 May 2018 - 07:08 AM.

[K19]

They can check the shielding on the JNR. after recording shielding back fiddle !!?

[-Spectre]

Genesis23, on 15 May 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

EDIT: shame they went the way of the chicken on the energy nerfs, would have been interesting to actually see some variety on the clan side for once. HLL are way too strong for their weight and with some coolshots at the right time you can absolutely wreck or at least heavily cripple much heavier mechs than your own.

the people whining about their lazor superority were clearly never on the recieving end and some madman actually compared the HG to the HLL. what a mess.

PGI should have implemented the changes, collected some data over the next month and then changed back accordingly and with enough data to support their reasons to change the ghost heat limits

Hi. Some madman here.

I compared the two to show how ridiculous PGI's "30 damage guideline" is. I was NOT saying that it needs to be nerfed, or that it is like the Heavy Large Laser. I was simply exposing the fact that PGI does not actually follow the rule that they said they were using when they decided on the Clan laser nerfs. Which I am glad of, because weight and slots should ABSOLUTELY be taken into consideration.

Also, lest you call me some blithering Clansman whining about my precious lazor, Let me make it clear that I DO NOT think the Heavy Gauss needs to be nerfed. I think it is in the right spot. It is scary at close range, but with proper focusing of the team it can be dealt with before it even gets into range, and as an occasional piranha pilot, I love to see them, because they are so easy to crit from behind. I can see it being a problem at the lower tiers, before people learn to work together, but in the games that I play, it feels like it is at the right spot.
On the other hand, I DO think that the Heavy Large Laser should be nerfed, but not in the way they say. MWO numbers are 18 damage for 16 heat. TT numbers are 16 damage for 18 heat. Reset MWO numbers to TT numbers, and roll some of the burn time into recycle time. Nerf complete. Now it fulfills its role as a high damage output for poking, with high heat cost and recycle time, so that it is less spammable. On a side note here, this actually brings the weapon closer to PGI's imaginary "30 damage guideline," leaving a pair of Heavy Large Lasers putting out 32 damage per shot.

Finally, PGI may still be implementing the changes. They are simply going to put it into a Public Test Server first, per Russ' twitter statement. That way, instead of sending these rather drastic changes live and gathering data, they can gather the data FIRST and THEN implement the adjusted changes. We can support thinking before acting by participating in the Public Test Server when it comes and giving feedback, even if we just come to the conclusion that the changes were appropriate, which is entirely possible.

Edited by -Spectre, 18 May 2018 - 06:14 AM.

[ArdvarkX]

Bolt on's for the crab! I totally approve

[Jay Leon Hart]

-Spectre, on 18 May 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

I compared the two to show how ridiculous PGI's "30 damage guideline" is. I was NOT saying that it needs to be nerfed, or that it is like the Heavy Large Laser. I was simply exposing the fact that PGI does not actually follow the rule that they said they were using when they decided on the Clan laser nerfs. Which I am glad of, because weight and slots should ABSOLUTELY be taken into consideration.

Their "30 damage" rule was only for lasers anyway, so they are following their own rules, however bad those rules may be.

[-Spectre]

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 May 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Their "30 damage" rule was only for lasers anyway, so they are following their own rules, however bad those rules may be.

Oh, it was? I did not realize that. I thought it was for all weapons, in light of the way most weapons work (not all, but most), and the Energy Draw PTS a while back. I stand corrected. Though it doesn't exactly make sense for them to apply that to lasers but not other weapons, especially gauss, given that lasers spread their damage, whereas other things, (like gauss) can do pinpoint damage. But whatever. PGI will be PGI.

[BTGbullseye]

-Spectre, on 18 May 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Oh, it was? I did not realize that. I thought it was for all weapons, in light of the way most weapons work (not all, but most), and the Energy Draw PTS a while back. I stand corrected. Though it doesn't exactly make sense for them to apply that to lasers but not other weapons, especially gauss, given that lasers spread their damage, whereas other things, (like gauss) can do pinpoint damage. But whatever. PGI will be PGI.

Actually, it's that Gauss is PPFLD, whereas lasers are just pinpoint. You can twist damage from lasers, but not Gauss or IS ballistics.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 18 May 2018 - 10:23 AM.

[Raythe 71]

"Oh PGI, you nerfed our clan lasers too much wanh wanh. Now I cant 80+ alpha with only 1 second exposure wanh wanh. I wil never learn to use multiple weapons groups, how could you? Wanh wanh. I might actually have to expose my mech long enough for the enemy to shoot me wanh wanh" get a grip you filthy freebirths and stop being cowards. Split your weapons up, cycle them more often, grow a pair, and fight like a real mechwarrior.

[BTGbullseye]

13loodwraith, on 18 May 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

grow a pair, and fight like a real mechwarrior.

Like the ones that did it in the past with no ghost heat limits whatsoever, or are you just that wimpy that you have to take away the one and only non-LRM loadout that isn't WORSE than IS just to be able to make a kill?

Considering your public scores, I'd say the latter applies to you. (1500+ matches, and you can't even break into a positive KDR)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 18 May 2018 - 10:45 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

13loodwraith, on 18 May 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

"Oh PGI, you nerfed our clan lasers too much wanh wanh. Now I cant 80+ alpha with only 1 second exposure wanh wanh. I wil never learn to use multiple weapons groups, how could you? Wanh wanh. I might actually have to expose my mech long enough for the enemy to shoot me wanh wanh" get a grip you filthy freebirths and stop being cowards. Split your weapons up, cycle them more often, grow a pair, and fight like a real mechwarrior.

YEAH!!! becasue that way overpowered 5 erml Adder needed nerfed right???

[Alstren]

Any one else getting the glitch where the Jenners armour values keep resetting to the old max armour limits?

[Alstren]

BTGbullseye, on 18 May 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

Like the ones that did it in the past with no ghost heat limits whatsoever, or are you just that wimpy that you have to take away the one and only non-LRM loadout that isn't WORSE than IS just to be able to make a kill?

Considering your public scores, I'd say the latter applies to you. (1500+ matches, and you can't even break into a positive KDR)

Lol wut are we playing Halo? since when does KDR matter go back to the xbox plz

[Apollo777]

FirestormClone218, on 20 May 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

Any one else getting the glitch where the Jenners armour values keep resetting to the old max armour limits?

Its not only Jenners but also all 5 mechs Jenner, JennerIIC, Cicada, Jagermech and stalker are bugged!
I removed armore from them and redireibuted it again but they drop few armore points from side or center torso!
It doesn't save my settings!

[BTGbullseye]

FirestormClone218, on 20 May 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

Lol wut are we playing Halo? since when does KDR matter go back to the xbox plz

KDR is a remarkably good measure of how much you're helping your team... His Win/Loss Ratio is almost as bad, and his average scores are potato level.

Your scores are much better however.

[Reno Blade]

Too bad the laser balance/nerf was removed, but I'm looking forward to any PTS testing.

Without Energy Draw, this is how I would do a "quick" change, before any larger sweep:

Generally improve weapons, but reduce the number before GH and link groups together.
So that smaller groups are strong, but larger groups are penalized more.
e.g. similar to how PPC/Gauss are linked in GH.

General changes:
- most weapons heat reduced by 10-15% overall
- some velocities increased (e.g. AC20) by 15-20%
- Gauss +2 heat / Heavy Gauss +3 heat
- AC Burst for all ACs (including IS) with UACs just one more bullet and Clan UACs with 1 more extra

GH limit changes:
- All lasers linked - most important point
- Large Lasers (clans also) max of 3 (increased from max of 2 now for clans)
- Med lasers max of 6
- Small Lasers max of 8

this alone will bring down "vomit" without nerfing the weapons itself (used for smaller number of hard points)
It will also emphasize the use of 1-2 volleys instead of full vomits which in turn also increase the use of builds that use mixed weapons more.
So instead of 2x Large + 6x Med in one alpha volley, you can now fire two groups of either large + med or decide to take two groups of large + large or med + med (depending on your space/ton available) which give a much broader range of mechs some options instead of moving everything to vomit meta whith enough hard points and the rest to the backseat.

the small increase of heat for Gauss will reduce the best Laser + Gauss combo by a small bit without reducing it to unplayable, but makes it so that it's no longer the "only viable option".
Also the change to 3x Large will still allow the Gauss + 3x Large to be very strong (and probably become new meta), so I'm not sure how good this move would be, but at least you won't see a 2x Large + 6x Med + Gauss volley anymore as the only/ best option.

I think that it will still alow the small asymetrical Clan vs IS balance but with a much better balance between these two and also in between all weapon categories.