161 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Squirg, on 27 May 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

I said it was harder to pilot one, not that they don't have a greater impact. Nice reading comprehension.

There's no misunderstanding here, easier to pilot = higher impact.

[R5D4]

Humpday, on 21 May 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

Not quite sure MM is turned on anymore TBH. Last night I dropped with a dude who just started playing the game 2 hours prior...so yeah T5 was grouped in T1,2 folks.

It certainly does feel like the MM is turned off in QP, I'm being instantly dropped into matches at T1 in Light Mechs with people still running 3rd Person View and shooting LRMS at 90m. If MM is off I wish they'd at least announce that they gave up on it completely.

Edited by R5D4, 29 May 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Clydewinder]

bring back 8 vs 8

[BurningDesire]

#40Tlivesmatter

[LowSubmarino]

Just had a single Kodiak in team red split off completly at early phase on crimson and approach path/ridge by himself.

He died in 10 seconds when we pushed over with the inital light/medium push after reaching platform to make sure they dont gather at path to rush us.

There was no backup there for him.

Means he must be very new to the game.

We just kept pushing over path and found more completly split up, single, isolated heavy and assault mechs that were staring in our direction, not moving, not trying to catch up with team.

We won 12:1 and only lost the one mech cause one of us split off and waited at path for team red to reach via tunnel and the long way around the mountain. He or she died there alone naturally.

Teams are kinda imba. You have players that played for ever half a decade vs ppl that are brand new.

[draiocht]

[mod]An argumentative reply-chain has been removed from this thread.

Please refrain from engaging in unconstructive, disruptive discussion.[/mod]

[Clownwarlord]

You can have one or the other but not both.

Option 1: Balanced matches.

Option 2: Low wait times.

If you choose balanced matches it will force longer wait times because it is searching for players to meet the criteria set. Yes you can alleviate this by creating gates/valves/timers when the cue has waited long enough it will find a less suitable match up player to fill in. So ultimately you get longer wait times, during very low player count and worse for those who have greater skills because they will wait longer. Also because of low player counts and low player counts of good enough skill you are NEVER guaranteed a balanced match. It can happen so rarely it is mythical when it does that you get a balanced match.

If you choose low wait times, then throw out the balancing all together. But your wait times will DRASTICALLY go down. I and many others are in favor of this. Why? Well the answer for that is if you have to wait 5 minutes plus to get a match; and those matches are not going to be balanced because the match maker will have to open some of those gates to allow for less balanced matches just to launch. Then why have a match maker in place at all if all it does is slow down the process of getting unbalanced matches?

A way you might understand this better is you go to a sit down restaurant and order a cheese burger. The cheese burger arrives 30 minutes later and it is a cheeseburger. Might be the best cheeseburger you ever had and by no means is it a bad cheeseburger because it is still a cheeseburger. The second time you go to a drive thru and you order a cheeseburger. This time you wait 2 minutes and you get a cheese burger. Not a great cheeseburger by any means because it only took 2 minutes to make, but a cheeseburger none-the-less because it is still a cheeseburger. Now would you rather have to wait 30 minutes for a cheeseburger that could be better than the 2 minutes cheeseburger when there is no guarantee what so ever of a 30 minute burger being better?

That is what it is like when you compare match maker to no match maker, both cases you get a match. With a match maker you get a chance of a balanced match BUT NO GUARANTEE and with MWO low player base more likely never. Without a match maker you get your match all the same just faster and no BS about it you wont get a balanced match (still a chance but so highly unlikely that the right people will click at the same time for it to balance).

What do you choose and why?

Also one last thing Match maker can work if it has the player base to support it, but MWO does not and barely has enough to give the illusion of it working during peak play times.

[Haipyng]

Clownwarlord, on 29 May 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

You can have one or the other but not both.

Option 1: Balanced matches.

Option 2: Low wait times.

^ This

This is an old complaint and has been answered. QP is as balanced as its going to get and believe it or not is better than the old system. It was decided that players wanted a shorter wait time so Matchmaker has safeties in place to ensure quicker matches. That is why we lost true map choice in the name of faster queue times. It's the best that can be done with low populations while prioritizing faster queues.

GP MM however can't seem to figure in builds, larger groups, or a number of other factors and its why there are often stomps for one side or the other. It is what it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Haipyng, 29 May 2018 - 06:22 AM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Theoretically if the required sample size for a match was 16 instead of 24, the match maker would be able to have a tighter grouping and be able to put together games faster.

There would be less (not zero) outliers getting used as fodder.

Combined team alpha's would be lower and TTK could possibly go up.

[Nightbird]

Clownwarlord, on 29 May 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

You can have one or the other but not both.

Option 1: Balanced matches.

Option 2: Low wait times.
.

Wrong. With any group of 24 people, it's still possible to create two teams of equal average skill which has the greatest chance of having a good match. The MM currently will happily put the 12 best players on one team, and the 12 worst on the other. Chances of a fun match? Zero. Why? The MM only looks at tiers, not stats, not mechs. The difference between two 'tier 1' players could be 0.5 KDR versus 10 KDR. These two are not equal in their influence on the outcome, they shouldn't be treated as such by the MM.

Edited by Nightbird, 29 May 2018 - 08:48 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

Nightbird, on 29 May 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

Wrong. With any group of 24 people, it's still possible to create two teams of equal average skill which has the greatest chance of having a good match. The MM currently will happily put the 12 best players on one team, and the 12 worst on the other. Chances of a fun match? Zero. Why? The MM only looks at tiers, not stats, not mechs. The difference between two 'tier 1' players could be 0.5 KDR versus 10 KDR. These two are not equal in their influence on the outcome, they shouldn't be treated as such by the MM.

First off ... read my complete post. Secondly you are wrong about telling me I am wrong because what you are arguing against my post isn't even about.

From reading your complete post which I quoted in full instead of taking snips of reads that PGI has a horribly mismanaged match making system because it bases it off of tiers instead of the thousands of algorithms you would need for an accurate match maker system. This I agree with you on PGI's PSR and tier system match maker is horrible.

As for my post it is only stating and pointing out one thing. That THING is any match maker system good, bad, ugly, whatever will slow down the match start because the players will have to be fed through a balancing act first instead of just reaching the player amount to launch a match.

In a simple way possible for you to understand. You are in line for a roller coaster. The roller coaster seats 24 people. If you had a seating arrangement based on the 24 peoples' individual preference of where they would like to sit on the roller coaster would cause the wait to get on the roller coaster to be longer than if you just took the first 24 people in line.

Even if you did take the first 24 people in line that dropped for a match in MWO and then ran an algorithm to balance just those 24 would slow down launch time only to the speed the servers would need to complete the algorithm. At that point you would still have an imperfect system no matter the what match making system you put in.

Hence why my post about you either can have as close to a balance match you can get but will have to wait for it or you get faster matches by no balancing and just feed the next 24 in.

[Nightbird]

lol, if I read the rest of your post I wouldn't have wasted my time replying...

[Revis Volek]

El Bandito, on 12 May 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

At this point I can only recommend bugging Russ on Twitter. At least ask for a soft reset every 4 months or so.

Wont do much honestly but might help some so the majority of the player base get good matches. Good players have left so the top tier club is smaller then ever before but its also a larger gap. Scurro or Jarls list confirms this as well. During peak hours you are still gonna see a guy with over 300ms avg vs a 100ms avg player. Just not enough players anymore that know how to play the game.

R5D4, on 27 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

It certainly does feel like the MM is turned off in QP, I'm being instantly dropped into matches at T1 in Light Mechs with people still running 3rd Person View and shooting LRMS at 90m. If MM is off I wish they'd at least announce that they gave up on it completely.

What is you avg MS by chance? Take a look and you may find out that you are becoming a unicorn in this game. Non potatoes are hard to come by these days and it isnt the norm to be able to hold a laser on target for whole burn. Just understand WHO is still playing this game.

Edited by Revis Volek, 29 May 2018 - 02:52 PM.

[R5D4]

Revis Volek, on 29 May 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

What is you avg MS by chance? Take a look and you may find out that you are becoming a unicorn in this game. Non potatoes are hard to come by these days and it isnt the norm to be able to hold a laser on target for whole burn. Just understand WHO is still playing this game.

You can see my stats here but yeah I suspect you're right, seems like a very new crowd compared to the last time I came back. Which is good and bad, good that it's attracting new players but bad that old ones aren't being retained.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

MM has one job right now: make a match.

When you average circa ~1000 unique log ins a day, you cannot expect a wide enough skill pool to fit everyone in neatly.

[Grus]

Exilyth, on 12 May 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

Is there any way to get PSR fixed without forming an angry mob w/torches and pitchforks?

don't forget, you could always come to FP where you don't have to worry about match maker.

[Lovas]

Grus, on 29 May 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

don't forget, you could always come to FP where you don't have to worry about match maker.

It is the best mode in the game

[Cer6erus]

I played a match the other day that makes me cry when I think about it and the state of matchmaking. I played incursion on river city. Did a fair 800-900 damage in my bushwhacker I was testing. Bought the farm at the end. Start spectating and within 20 seconds it was 6 vs 2 left, my teams favor, 6 minutes on the clock. 90% of our base was gone.

I watched, for 3 long minutes, as the 2 enemy lights and 4 of our mechs (1 got lost, one went to enemy base) had a 'fight' next to the last building we had standing in our base. The enemy lights didn't know to finish the base, and were not good enough to kill anyone on my side. It took 3 ******* minutes for our 4 players to kill 2 lights.

It gets worse. You think the game is over now? Haha. With 3 minutes left, our team can't manage to kill enough base structures for the win. 1 guy was lost. 1 went afk. The atlas that left for the enemy base early was running like, lrm40 and 2 erllas. Somehow still missed the generators and overheated. And the other mechs couldn't reach the base intime.

This is not acceptable for tier one gameplay. Matchmaker is ******. Jarls list has me in the top 99% I should not be in matches like this, it's not fair for anyone.

Needless to say I was angry and abused my MC-II in QP for a while to make me feel better.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Could just have ranked que for people and a normal/casual que. The former for more balance and people of similar skill/level/tier whatever, to a short wait time potato madness casual game in the latter.

[Scyther]

It is both incorrect and defeatist to state that the matchmaker is doing as good as it can, given the low pop.

You can balance any group of 24 players better than the current MM does. This very thread contains an algorithm for doing so. It does not need to be 'accurate' to any great degree, and the calculations are simple and extremely fast.

If a high school basketball team and a college level basketball team arrive at a court and want to make a half decent match, you don't put the high schoolers against the college guys and say "Eh, the heights of each team are roughly even, matchup looks good to me, game on!". You split them half and half and make two mixed teams that are closer to even. An MM for MWO really doesn't need to be much more complicated than that (again, see algorithm in thread).

We no longer have the pop for the MM to put tier 1-2's against other 1-2's, 4-5s against 4-5s, and 3s match everyone (which was poor design to begin with really).

Unfortunately, PGI doesn't even care about your match quality because the sales they make are more related to people buying 'cool models' than about people wanting good matches. Either that or they simply lack the programming chops to code even a half-decent matchmaker.

Stomps will happen in every shooter/deathmatch style game, that's a given. When every 2nd match is a stomp, that's a broken matchmaker.

Edited by MadBadger, 30 May 2018 - 03:21 AM.