190 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

We seriously need some kind of forum counter for these types of threads.

LoveWisdom, on 04 June 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

I had close to a 2 years hiatus and returned to the game only about 2 weeks ago. Needed a couple of games to get used to the mechanics and gameplay again but doing all fine now. I play solo queue only, so i do know very well how it is in those games and I can imagine in T3 it might be even worse. I can't really remember ever having such a bad losing streak b/c when I do have one that's usually when I try out different builds and mechs. But I always have a back-up mech I resort to to "carry" me to victory which used to be the Direwolf dual gauss + lasers build; nowadays it's the Mad Cat II Deathstrike with pretty much the same build.

So here are some tips I hope will help you a little bit.

1. improve your piloting (torso twisting), aiming, positioning skills (observe minimap).

2. pilot "good" mechs with optimal builds, preferably an assault mech b/c it has more firepower and more armor meaning you do more damage and stay alive longer to carry the game more.

3. take responsibility and use ingame voice chat to give commands (for when to push, hold position, where to go etc.) or call out targets e.g. "bravo in the open" or "bravo ct open", alert the team to a light in the back etc.

4. stick with your team and don't wander off unless you're in a light mech. It is not primarily your job to capture points (conquest) or get in the circle first (in domination) when you're in a heavy or an assault!

I think the 3rd advice is a rather simple but very effective one since it's a team game and communication is everything.

I fully agree with everything but point 2. Currently Assaults have lowest possible survivability among any other mechs, because you can't twist as effectively and generally big profile and slow speed can focus you down in a matter of moments unlike any other mech, so once you commited to fight/push, that will be your do or die moment.

Second place are squishmeister Mediums, which are too big for the speed to help dodge the shots.

Third place are Heavies, generally slower ones, same issue as Assaults, but quicker twisting helps a bit.

The toughest ones are Lights. You can run in 12 man teams all day long, core or kill few of big ones, run away, then come back and do the same. If you came face-to-face with like 8 or more mechs, chances are, you'll get yellow armor and bail. With any other weight class, you'd be dead where stand almost instantly.

[KodiakGW]

Dogstar, on 05 June 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

First of all - I am not going to all the effort of looking up every name on a screenshot because you have still not provided an actual point that you wish to prove.

Secondly the onus is on you to prove your point - I'll happily provide screen shots of my matches if you think it's somehow relevant and you can look up whatever you want on Jarl's list

Thirdly, as I've pointed out before, good stats do not make for good opinions. Being able to play a twitch game well is a function of many factors that are not the same as being able to design a game well

Fourthly, you do not need to be an expert at game design to understand problems with game design. It's a logical fallacy to assume that only 'experts' are capable of having a valid opinion

First and Second - I’d be happy to take five minutes (about the same amount of time you put into the Clan Crocodile Tears poster you made) to do the work for you to show you what we have already said in a number of threads. But, they have to be your screen shots. Then I’ll provide a screen shot with same research of one of my games. Maybe one of my first games in a “I’m having fun” Hellspawn I was thinking of buying tonight. 1 LPL, 2 ERML, Stealth Armor, nothing on Skill Tree unlocked.

Thirdly - People who play the game usually get better at the game they are playing. Usually, not always. So that is usually reflected in their performance. They get better over time, better stats. They also have a tendency to have better opinions about what changes should be made because they see what is going on in matches, do research, and know something is wrong. Tendency, not always. But, I would say more so than someone who, for arguments sake, has less games in the last four seasons combined than the one they are arguing against has in the most recent one. Occasionally you will get someone who is a high performing player that is blind to what everyone is presenting as evidence, because it is contrary to what they believe is true. Then they always fall back on the “git gud” argument.

Fourthly - See thirdly point. Most of the people posting are not expert game designers, nor allude or claim to be. I really don’t know why you continue to think that. They just put in games and notice trends, notice issues. But, you have to put in games to notice them.

Edit: 9.5 hours later, and no screen shots. Just like last time. Have mine ready, and made a 5 minute instructional video while doing it. Will post links when I see 'dem screen shots. Sleepy time now.

Edited by KodiakGW, 05 June 2018 - 07:05 PM.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 05 June 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'd bother with discussion if you were actually good at this game. A mediocre player like you talking smack at me is like a small dog barking at a lion. Simply pathetic.

Actually, it was a testament to your skill you doofus ! I didn't destroy you, we destroyed you; and, many others from the forums.... Why, because you and others are the first threat....duh.....so, put away your ego and accept a tongue in cheek compliment with some grace, eh?!

BTW, I take no claim of being better "in this silly game".... I am proud of being a Grand, Super Spud Potato with a first class Mashed skill identifier.... Now, I bet you can't "top that"...

You are far too serious sometimes.........

[UnofficialOperator]

Haven't been playing much recently because other games.

Solo QP still easy mode though.

[PocketYoda]

If you continually lose play in the mechbay for a bit.. If you keep pressing start match after a loss you have a high chance of dropping with the folks you just lost with continually..

El Bandito, on 05 June 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'd bother with discussion if you were actually good at this game. A mediocre player like you talking smack at me is like a small dog barking at a lion. Simply pathetic.

Man scumbag ego at newer customers just because you've been playing it longer.. Seriously and they wonder why the population is so low and in decline..

You are why.. Congrats i guess.

Edited by Samial, 05 June 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Samial, on 05 June 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

If you continually lose play in the mechbay for a bit.. If you keep pressing start match after a loss you have a high chance of dropping with the folks you just lost with continually..


Man scumbag ego at newer customers just because you've been playing it longer.. Seriously and they wonder why the population is so low and in decline..

You are why.. Congrats i guess.

The other fella did start it, and then presumably did a scoreboard check and wee'd a little.

Edited by RickySpanish, 05 June 2018 - 05:50 PM.

[Cloves]

RickySpanish, on 05 June 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

The other fella did start it, and then presumably did a scoreboard check and wee'd a little.

Nah, he was giving a compliment, just not very clearly. El Bandito has been a very visible member of these boards for a long time, holds strong opinions and very much has the understanding of the underlying game mechanics to support them. I just believe he may be getting a little burned out grinding Solaris, since he was a little less grumpy when he was making more passionate arguments about things like balance last year. I have great respect for his ability, but he did not always feel this much need to defend it. Honestly he is still not toxic, just took offense. We should all just take a breath.

- edit It’s like how I try to kill Bardul in every match I see him in, it’s a stalker fan thing, I guess, like challenging Mike Tyson to a fistfight.

-2nd edit we also frequently see newer or low scoring players complain about the teammates in thier matches and blaming them for thier long losing streaks. With a completely random matchmaker, the only constant across 20 games is the player. Most of those folks refuse to consider that they might be able to effect those matches or take any accountability for the results.

Edited by Cloves, 05 June 2018 - 09:06 PM.

[Prototelis]

Samial, on 05 June 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

ego

You of all people don't have any room to lambaste someone over their ego.

[Dogstar]

KodiakGW, on 05 June 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

Edit: 9.5 hours later, and no screen shots. Just like last time. Have mine ready, and made a 5 minute instructional video while doing it. Will post links when I see 'dem screen shots. Sleepy time now.

Whats up, amazed I'm not sitting up and waiting for your reply? Expecting a reply on a forum in less than 24 hours is bad manners frankly.

Secondly, you're still falling for the same fallacy only wording it differently so now instead of stats your talking about number of matches played. All you do is try to put down other people's experiences as not being valid and thus implying that your opinion is better than theirs. Stop doing that it makes you look very unpleasant!

and here we go, screenshots as requested, a couple of old ones and three from today

Edited by Dogstar, 06 June 2018 - 03:15 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Dogstar, on 06 June 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

and here we go, screenshots as requested, a couple of old ones and three from today

Thanks! Will get working on those tonight and reply. Had to go in early for a meeting today.

Especially thanks for the third one down. Some have been saying that if we move back to 8v8, that we will be back to having games where teams completely miss each other and cap the objective. You just helped prove that it still happens with 12v12, and on their brand new map as well. THANKS!

[Dogstar]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

Thanks! Will get working on those tonight and reply. Had to go in early for a meeting today.

Especially thanks for the third one down. Some have been saying that if we move back to 8v8, that we will be back to having games where teams completely miss each other and cap the objective. You just helped prove that it still happens with 12v12, and on their brand new map as well. THANKS!

Yeah that game was a total suck fest, that's one reason why I captured the outcome, when two teams play the base capping game (which doesn't happen often) you might as well not play at all.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Past week has been mostly wins for me and I am by no means a good player (1-2 kills and 400+dmg is a screenshot moment for me) but my w/l and K/D ratios for my most recent played mechs is pretty balanced with slightly favoring wins over losses, only exceptions being my marauder and javalin which are at polar opposites.

ARC-T: 29 games 2.22 WL (1.05 KD)
ENF-4R: 37 games 1.64 WL (1.40 KD) <---current favorite, named him Doomslayer cause Doomguy was too obvious.

Odd birds
JVN-11B: 14 games 3.67 WL (0.60 KD)
MAD-5M: 18 games 0.50WL (0.57 KD)

[Weeny Machine]

When you are the only one who cares to shoot down UAVs and this is supposedly T1...then you know something is wrong. The worst was: I was just below a UAV and couldn't shoot it down and asked repeatedly that someone shoot it down please...no one did. End of the story was a rain of LRMs (also in T1 haha)

[Novakaine]

Just take a break I am.
And I'm a better player for it

[Cloves]

Dogstar, you are very much intitled to your opinions about game balance, and clearly have long experience with the game, but I could understand a high tier over performing ultra competitive personality saying that 12 games a month might give you a narrower view into the full depth of the game mechanics. It is not a very kind argument, but it is the equivalent of a full time professional disrespecting the opinion of a hobbyist of long practice. If you are careful to cite evidence there is merit to your voice, like anyone’s, but you may often be fighting an uphill battle defending it. I personally am an average at best player, but have had few folks deride my opinions based on my scores or the limited amount of time I have been in the game. I have been corrected about statements that turned out to be erroneous based on my limited experience, but I consider that different than folks disputing my opinions.

-edit. This having been said, I understand and agree with many of the points you made in that matchmaker/ tier definition post. I am a clear example of a tier 3-4 player, yet I am in tier two. I have to actively manage my tier so as not to go overboard when farming cbills and put myself in tier 1.

- edit 2. I must play during “peak” hours, because in the month I have been back, I have had no real waits in QP que and have not seen trials or obvious tier five behaviors in my matches. I have seen quite a few tier 1 players, and quite a few tier 3. To me, this means the MM is indeed functioning, just may not be as tight as some folks would want.

Edited by Cloves, 06 June 2018 - 12:11 PM.

[Grus]

Play FP... you'll feel better.

[KodiakGW]

Dogstar, on 06 June 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Yeah that game was a total suck fest, that's one reason why I captured the outcome, when two teams play the base capping game (which doesn't happen often) you might as well not play at all.

I only did four of the six you posted. Didn't bother with the capping one because match scores were non-existent. Plus your one with time stamp from December 2017 must have been an alt account. Your name did not show on it.

Here are links to the compare of names to Jarl's. AGAIN, FOR RESEARCH ONLY..NOT NAME AND SHAME - but you may want to remove the pics from your site and replace with these pics with names blocked out in case someone complains.

https://i.imgur.com/ByoILl6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KVr3QiT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QCdOvhm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EKXcWEk.jpg

First off, I'm not sure which time zone you play in, but I noticed the time stamps were from 11:21 to 12:08, and 16:29. Which I assume are not NA times. Depending on when you play, there might be fewer players to fill out teams.

Now the first one on Grim looks exactly like what I saw when playing my T3 alt. People of a wide range of skills, but most in the median range. The outcome, a close game, makes sense. But, the team with a hot shot in a Raven pulls out the win.

Now, the second one, on Terra is closer to what I see with my main account, but a different outcome than expected. You would have to elaborate on what happened. But, do note the CTD-3D pilot on the losing team.

The third one on Polar is again closer to what I noticed with my T3 alt. But, notice that most of the 80th and 90th percentiles are on one team, and most of the 70th percentiles are on the other. Leading to an expected outcome.

The forth one has way too many retired players (ones who have not played enough to formulate a standing for them) to use for research.

Now, here is mine. Running the same loadout I mentioned I was going to run in a Hellspawn "for fun" on a PHX - LPL, 2ERML, Stealth Armor.



Note that it looks a lot like your Terra game. The majority (in this case, all) of the 95th+ percentile players all stacked on one team. The outcome is as expected. This is what we are talking about when we say stomps. Why most of us make statements, when talking about stomps, like noticing nobody seeming to be able to keep a bead on target with lasers, not hitting the R key, ineffective loadouts, and others when we are spectating after death. I'm sure a number of players on the losing team were seeing those things happening. Makes sense when we consider that 1/4 of that team were in the 50th percentile.

Now, I'm not faulting those players. I'm faulting the matchmaker for two things:
ONE - That it is putting players in the 50th percentile, or lower, in the same game with players who are at the top of their game. Think they are having fun? Think that guy in the CTF on Terra had fun? Doubtful.
TWO - That it seems, at least for a majority of my games, that the best pilots seem to be stacked on one team. Leading to the inevitable stomp.

Is it PSR's fault? Many of us believe that it is, and have done research to figure out that PSR leans heavily on the upward side. There have been many debates back and forth, and I'm not going to get into that for now.

Is it the fault of a low population player base? Many believe that it is. But, we are now sitting close to the active player numbers that was last seen in December of 2016, and a spike up to an average of over 100 games. Yet, it is still happening. That data can be see on Jarl's web site too.

Now every time someone jumps in, like you, and says "stomps will happen", while ignoring the facts that we have laid out in multiple threads, it basically reinforces the devs idea the there is nothing wrong.

Now, YOU ARE CORRECT, stomps will happen. Good players will have a bad game. Like the Deathstrike on Grim, or that Fafnir on Terra, and things might snowball from there. But, if teams are well balanced, the team might recover, or at least keep it from rolling out of control. Things need to be fixed so we can get to that point. We can debate forever what should be done, but the first step to solving any problem is recognizing there is one. Let's do it before we lose all these returning and/or new players. Hopefully I have convinced you of that.

[Brain Cancer]

You'd have to actually make a game system where bad players are pushed out of the same pool as good players, where MWO simply attempts to push everyone into the same pool to maximize matches.

This has always been taxing Peter the Player Pool to pay Paul The Vision Maker.

[Snowhawk]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

...
Now, I'm not faulting those players. I'm faulting the matchmaker for two things:
ONE - That it is putting players in the 50th percentile, or lower, in the same game with players who are at the top of their game. Think they are having fun? Think that guy in the CTF on Terra had fun? Doubtful.
TWO - That it seems, at least for a majority of my games, that the best pilots seem to be stacked on one team. Leading to the inevitable stomp.

...

As far I know at least 3 other people have noticed the same. They made Screenshots after the match and compared them with the data from the leaderboard. They found out that the matchmaker has the tendency to create a "veteran team" and a "potato team"..... and guess what.... which team will win?

[El Bandito]

Cloves, on 06 June 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

To me, this means the MM is indeed functioning, just may not be as tight as some folks would want.

It can indeed become tighter if 8v8 for QP is implemented. So vote for 8v8.

https://mwomercs.com...k-play-and-8v8/

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2018 - 03:07 AM.