190 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

https://i.imgur.com/KVr3QiT.jpg
Now, the second one, on Terra is closer to what I see with my main account, but a different outcome than expected. You would have to elaborate on what happened. But, do note the CTD-3D pilot on the losing team.

I can tell you what happened in that game. It was conquest and the team scattered all over the place leaving myself and like 3 others to hold a push through the middle. I was running a dual heavy gauss + lasers Anni 1x and blew up 4 mechs b4 I got swarmed and killed by the lights. I was actually quite frustrated that had rest of the team been positioned properly to support my annihilator, we would've won like 12-3. Instead it actually ended up being a lot closer than it had to be.

That fafnir that you mentioned, he charged into the open and between myself and one other we basically 1-2 combo'ed his CT and he died instantly.

Edit: it was conquest

Edited by Vxheous, 07 June 2018 - 05:46 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Vxheous, on 07 June 2018 - 03:21 AM, said:

I can tell you what happened...(snip)

Thanks for that write up about what happened. Figured as much. A lot of people say “Everyone hates Terra because it’s too hot for their laser vomit (a couple of other maps are actually hotter).” It’s actually, at least for me, that many times there are bad tactics happening on it...even from otherwise decent players. But hey, at least you usually don’t see NASCAR on it....usually.

Do notice you said Domination. Mode in screen shot is Conquest. Makes more sense that the team scattered for Conquest.

Edited by KodiakGW, 07 June 2018 - 05:31 AM.

[Vxheous]

KodiakGW, on 07 June 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

Thanks for that write up about what happened. Figured as much. A lot of people say “Everyone hates Terra because it’s too hot for their laser vomit (a couple of other maps are actually hotter).” It’s actually, at least for me, that many times there are bad tactics happening on it...even from otherwise decent players. But hey, at least you usually don’t see NASCAR on it....usually.

Do notice you said Domination. Mode in screen shot is Conquest. Makes more sense that the team scattered for Conquest.

Actually you're right, we were trying claim theta when the events described occured. While the opposing team had 2 cappers and 10 mechs flood theta, my team had 7 guys running all over the place leaving 5 of us to contest theta

[Damnedtroll]

Best way of stopping these lost streak... just stop playing for one or two hours and comeback... Some time periods during the day doesn't work with some people playing style and you get all messed up.

[RickySpanish]

Cloves, on 05 June 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

Nah, he was giving a compliment, just not very clearly. El Bandito has been a very visible member of these boards for a long time, holds strong opinions and very much has the understanding of the underlying game mechanics to support them. I just believe he may be getting a little burned out grinding Solaris, since he was a little less grumpy when he was making more passionate arguments about things like balance last year. I have great respect for his ability, but he did not always feel this much need to defend it. Honestly he is still not toxic, just took offense. We should all just take a breath.

- edit It’s like how I try to kill Bardul in every match I see him in, it’s a stalker fan thing, I guess, like challenging Mike Tyson to a fistfight.

-2nd edit we also frequently see newer or low scoring players complain about the teammates in thier matches and blaming them for thier long losing streaks. With a completely random matchmaker, the only constant across 20 games is the player. Most of those folks refuse to consider that they might be able to effect those matches or take any accountability for the results.

Having a positive outlook on your team mates is surprisingly effective at boosting your win rate imo. I can't remember the last time I cussed out anyone on a loss. Stuff like saying hello to your lance mates at the beginning of a match, and congratulating them on a good effort even when you lose, is quite important for keeping your mind sharp instead of worn down and angry. In that state, you will just repeat the same mistakes. Of course, when I point out exactly what you rightfully stated about commonalities among your team during a streak of losses, people get rather angry. That's probably because they're as crap at arguing as they are at playing the game.

[Dogstar]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

Now every time someone jumps in, like you, and says "stomps will happen", while ignoring the facts that we have laid out in multiple threads, it basically reinforces the devs idea the there is nothing wrong.

Now, YOU ARE CORRECT, stomps will happen. Good players will have a bad game. Like the Deathstrike on Grim, or that Fafnir on Terra, and things might snowball from there. But, if teams are well balanced, the team might recover, or at least keep it from rolling out of control. Things need to be fixed so we can get to that point. We can debate forever what should be done, but the first step to solving any problem is recognizing there is one. Let's do it before we lose all these returning and/or new players. Hopefully I have convinced you of that.

Thanks Kodiak I'm finally understanding what you've been trying to get at (I hope).

Couple of things - you're dead right that these unbalanced matches are increasing the number and speed of stomps but I think that my main point, that the design of this sort of game facilitates stomps as a common feature, still stands. I've seen plenty of arguments on the WoT site and here showing that the team with the higher average skill is the one that does the stomping 90% of the time even though there are still the odd turnarounds like the match I had on terra which, I guess, was down to the other team venturing out one at a time and getting focused - plus, of course, my brilliant rain of AC2 shells from on high!.

I wrote my initial post because I was tired of seeing people come onto these forums and rant about the MM being at fault when it's largely down to their own problems. I've been there and overcome that problem (I hope) and I'm trying to educate others about some of the reasons why this happens.

[Dogstar]

KodiakGW, on 07 June 2018 - 05:27 AM, said:

Makes more sense that the team scattered for Conquest.

Oh yes that's right, I remember that the team had Vxheous on it - first time I've seen him online. The other team did get an early advantage on caps but they abandoned theta which we recaptured and then we managed to pick apart their heavy hitters in the usual combat spot with the deep lava river. I was jumping up one of the tall hills and sniping from on high which managed to distract some of them. I didn't notice what Vxheous was doing though but it seemed to me that their main force was pretty good early on and then fell apart - almost certainly because of Vxheous 4 kills (assuming I'm remembering it right and getting the timing correct)

It's interesting to see the same battle from a different point of view, we very rarely get a chance to discuss things post combat.

Edited by Dogstar, 07 June 2018 - 09:11 AM.

[MrXanthios]

best thing is when on ur side ur assaults are an awesome, a blr, and similar is trash, and on the other side there are 2 mad cats, or basps, and 2 annihilator-2A

[Samantha Rbnsn1990]

Cloves, on 04 June 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

5. Troll a bit.

This. The only reason I fire up MWO, really. Goddamn it, I'm gonna make some ******* mad, whether they're on my "team" or the opposing "team".

[Anjian]

Dogstar, on 07 June 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

Thanks Kodiak I'm finally understanding what you've been trying to get at (I hope).

Couple of things - you're dead right that these unbalanced matches are increasing the number and speed of stomps but I think that my main point, that the design of this sort of game facilitates stomps as a common feature, still stands. I've seen plenty of arguments on the WoT site and here showing that the team with the higher average skill is the one that does the stomping 90% of the time even though there are still the odd turnarounds like the match I had on terra which, I guess, was down to the other team venturing out one at a time and getting focused - plus, of course, my brilliant rain of AC2 shells from on high!.

I wrote my initial post because I was tired of seeing people come onto these forums and rant about the MM being at fault when it's largely down to their own problems. I've been there and overcome that problem (I hope) and I'm trying to educate others about some of the reasons why this happens.

That's true about the higher average skill creating stomps. It has to be said though, that WoT has been suffering more stomps lately according to one player YouTuber.

[Tarl Cabot]

KodiakGW, on 06 June 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

I only did four of the six you posted. Didn't bother with the capping one because match scores were non-existent. Plus your one with time stamp from December 2017 must have been an alt account. Your name did not show on it.

Here are links to the compare of names to Jarl's. AGAIN, FOR RESEARCH ONLY..NOT NAME AND SHAME - but you may want to remove the pics from your site and replace with these pics with names blocked out in case someone complains.

https://i.imgur.com/ByoILl6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KVr3QiT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QCdOvhm.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EKXcWEk.jpg

......

Since the PSR works with static numbers/thresholds, what were the overall average match scores and W/L? And for at least this game, are you able to match up said players in the forums for their tiers, where available?

Using as examples below shows MM is only using tier as the only number, and not Tier 2.5, Tier 1.2, etc, and no other stats. If it can be shown that the most of those players in your games were primarily Tier 1-2, would that not throw out the window that the game is stacking one side?

• Tier 2 player, 9 months (9 seasons recorded) rank 15252, 76% percentile and a 0.99 W/L. Said player, dang.. has played 3K+ during those 9 seasons and with a 213 MS. For the last 6 seasons 260+ MS, should be into Tier 1 soon.
  
• 
  
• Tier 2 player, 23 seasons, 2700+ games, rank 25958, 59% percentile, 0.87 W/L with 203 MS.
  
• Tier 3 player, 22 seasons, 1500+, games, rank 21064, 67% percentile, 1.00 W/L with 206 MS
  
• Tier 1 player, 23 seasons, 4600+ games, rank 16397, 74% percentile, 0.98 W/L with 223 MS
  
• Tier 2 player, 23 seasons, 2200+ games, rank 15999, 75% percentile, 0.96 W/L with 211 MS
  
• Tier 2 player, 23 seasons, 1800+ games, rank 25554, 60% percentile, 0.98% W/L with 201 MS

Just using the examples above so far, posting just their rank/percentiles does not mean anything if the MM is not using any of those additional numbers. And said numbers does not necessarily reflect the tier the players may be in that the PSR pulls from.

Adding stats as I find them to show that stats themselves does not mean a player is not Tier 1 nor 2.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 June 2018 - 07:56 AM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Dragonporn, on 05 June 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

I fully agree with everything but point 2. Currently Assaults have lowest possible survivability among any other mechs, because you can't twist as effectively and generally big profile and slow speed can focus you down in a matter of moments unlike any other mech, so once you commited to fight/push, that will be your do or die moment.

Assault main here - All lies! As with any mech, don't push by yourself, don't face tank everything, try to keep up with the eventual nascar. EX: Predict which way your team will go and try to be somewhat up in front, don't LRM boat, know the weakness and strengths of your builds/mechs (don't brawl with a laser vom build), and most importantly, A.I.M. Follow these easy steps and you too will find success in QP.

[Dragonporn]

DrtyDshSoap, on 08 June 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

Assault main here - All lies! As with any mech, don't push by yourself, don't face tank everything, try to keep up with the eventual nascar. EX: Predict which way your team will go and try to be somewhat up in front, don't LRM boat, know the weakness and strengths of your builds/mechs (don't brawl with a laser vom build), and most importantly, A.I.M. Follow these easy steps and you too will find success in QP.

That's all understandable, but the thing is, TTK in this game is insanely low. When you push enemy team or enemy pushes you, and they decide to focus you (because every team I meet these days know that FF kills stuff in moments), you have literally no options to survive. You have to deal maximum damage and kill stuff as fast as possible before you die. Assaults are most tasty targets out there, they get focused far more than any other mech because they are far less agile, slow and huge in comparison to any other mech, thus very easy to target. When face to face engagement happens, Light, Medium or Heavy can maneuver, use cover, shuffle, etc. With Assault it is simply impossible, and every Joe knows about it, so they prioritize Assaults more than anything else. I do the same all the time and it works incredibly well. Even in my Mediums, I can disarm or kill pretty much any Assault in ~3 alphas. I do pretty well in most of my Assaults, but only knowing aforementioned specific of piloting them, and somehow turning it into advantage. But no matter what you do, if enemies decide to focus you first, you're dead.

Edited by Dragonporn, 08 June 2018 - 02:03 PM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Agree to disagree. Every Joe is doing it wrong, I think I'm one of the few that can say that given the past three seasons I've been holding a high place in the leaderboard with a decent K/D and W/L. The majority of my drops have been in assaults and quickplay, so when I say that you can actually torso twist, hill hump, use cover, trust me, you can, it's not a hard concept to follow, it just matters how you position yourself.

I'm in a sub par mech anyways this month, the newly introduced Blood Asp with side torsos so huge, it'll make you puke, along with gauss installed on the sides.

I welcome anyone to try piloting an assault and ditch the mentality of "always be in front," "meat shield other potatoes," you can play assaults like you play a heavy, it's as easy as counting 1, 2 , 3.

[El Bandito]

Dragonporn, on 08 June 2018 - 05:30 AM, said:

That's all understandable, but the thing is, TTK in this game is insanely high. When you push enemy team or enemy pushes you, and they decide to focus you (because every team I meet these days know that FF kills stuff in moments), you have literally no options to survive.

Insanely low TTK, you mean?

[Dogstar]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

Insanely low TTK, you mean?

We're all insane in here!

[Dragonporn]

DrtyDshSoap, on 08 June 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

Agree to disagree. Every Joe is doing it wrong, I think I'm one of the few that can say that given the past three seasons I've been holding a high place in the leaderboard with a decent K/D and W/L. The majority of my drops have been in assaults and quickplay, so when I say that you can actually torso twist, hill hump, use cover, trust me, you can, it's not a hard concept to follow, it just matters how you position yourself.

I'm in a sub par mech anyways this month, the newly introduced Blood Asp with side torsos so huge, it'll make you puke, along with gauss installed on the sides.

I welcome anyone to try piloting an assault and ditch the mentality of "always be in front," "meat shield other potatoes," you can play assaults like you play a heavy, it's as easy as counting 1, 2 , 3.

Of course you can twist, hill hump an do everything what other mechs can do, but I'm sure you realize that you do it in Assault far less effectively than in any more agile mech, and armor doesn't do much with all the alphas flying around.

I swear, every time I pick Assault, I see enemies crawling out of their skin to murder me. Can't count how many times I've seen dudes suiciding in our deathball just to kill me... I honestly don't know what's the deal, people don't chase me like that in any other weight class, while I can be far more annoying.

El Bandito, on 08 June 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

Insanely low TTK, you mean?

Yes, thank you for correction.

[Tatula]

Dragonporn, on 08 June 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Of course you can twist, hill hump an do everything what other mechs can do, but I'm sure you realize that you do it in Assault far less effectively than in any more agile mech, and armor doesn't do much with all the alphas flying around.

I swear, every time I pick Assault, I see enemies crawling out of their skin to murder me. Can't count how many times I've seen dudes suiciding in our deathball just to kill me... I honestly don't know what's the deal, people don't chase me like that in any other weight class, while I can be far more annoying.

Assaults are priority targets simply because they can do a lot of damage if not taken out quickly.

[PocketYoda]

Prototelis, on 05 June 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

You of all people don't have any room to lambaste someone over their ego.

Seriously my ego is fine, i know i do average but i don't condescend to others on purpose.. If i did, apologies..

El Bandito, on 08 June 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

Insanely low TTK, you mean?

No its too quick, way too quick to be a Battletech game..

Edited by Samial, 08 June 2018 - 03:56 PM.

[Luminis]

I know people don't like talk about player stats on here, but after looking those up following a stomp, I've come to the conclusion that, nine out of ten times, those stomps are coinciding with lopsided average match score distribution. I feel like, if I had a tool to quickly scrape the Jarl's List for the average or adjusted score and add them up for both teams, I'd be able to predict the outcome of most matches with quite some confidence.

If I can do this manually, why on earth can't the matchmaker shuffle players around a little and at least balance both teams against each other?

Samial, on 08 June 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

No its too quick, way too quick to be a Battletech game..

That's why it's labelled "MechWarrior", not "BattleTech".