864 replies to this topic

[Gwahlur]

Gwahlur, on 15 June 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Maybe there could be a noob flag on new accounts that allows them to 2 man in qp, a flag that would get dropped after so and so long/so and so many games, or after getting higher match scores than is reasonable for noobs.

Quit with the exaggerations and "hurr durr, if they wanna get clubbed I guess we'll go club them durrrr". I wouldn't expect to be able to group in qp now as a tier 2, my friends have already said screw it to this game anyway due to getting sealclubbed in group queue constantly but even if they hadn't, higher tiers shouldnt be able to group in qp..
You would not be able to group either, I know you'd make alt accounts so you could sealclub anyway, but you would optimally only get a game or two before being locked out.

Edited by Gwahlur, 20 June 2018 - 07:41 PM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Gwahlur, on 20 June 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

[Wil McCullough]

Gwahlur, on 20 June 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Quit with the exaggerations and "hurr durr, if they wanna get clubbed I guess we'll go club them durrrr". I wouldn't expect to be able to group in qp now as a tier 2, my friends have already said screw it to this game anyway due to getting sealclubbed in group queue constantly but even if they hadn't, higher tiers shouldnt be able to group in qp..
You would not be able to group either, I know you'd make alt accounts so you could sealclub anyway, but you would optimally only get a game or two before being locked out.

Wat

[Bud Crue]

Gwahlur, on 20 June 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Quit with the exaggerations and "hurr durr, if they wanna get clubbed I guess we'll go club them durrrr". I wouldn't expect to be able to group in qp now as a tier 2, my friends have already said screw it to this game anyway due to getting sealclubbed in group queue constantly but even if they hadn't, higher tiers shouldnt be able to group in qp..
You would not be able to group either, I know you'd make alt accounts so you could sealclub anyway, but you would optimally only get a game or two before being locked out.

So to be clear here, the system that you are proposing that PGI institute here (PGI mind you) is as follows:

Solo Queue functioning as it is with its stellar match maker for creating balanced 12 v 12 matches but wherein 2 person groups are added in and allowed to drop into the "solo Queue", if and only if, each member of the 2 person group has a tier 5 PSR rating (perhaps even up to Tier 4?).

Is that correct?

If so, the problems I see with such a proposal:

First the obvious: this is likely beyond PGI's abilities. Full stop.

Second, and equally obvious: who do they drop with?
Do we open the PSR gates wide when the system acknowledges that a qualified pair of T5s is identified, so that our pair of qualified noobs is dumped with potential T2s or T1s? Or do we limit the pair to just the gated community of T4 and T5 players? Either way, this seems problematic for several reasons including the obvious wait times vs the very issue that raised this thread, namely the "I just want to group up with my buddy and not get stomped by "top tier" players" problem. If we keep the noob pair limited to T5s and T4s they will likely never get a match (does the system require pairs on both sides? An equal number of pairs?, such aspects add complexity and increase wait times). If we dump them into the general melee of the higher tiers then the system does not address the very problem it is supposed to solve.

Third, ignoring the first two issues lets pretend PGI could do this and the population exists to support it; what does such a Solo + 2 noob pairs Queue do to address the problem of "I just want to group up with my buddy and not get stomped by "top tier" problem? It allows the "buddies" in this hypothetical to drop together for, what? a few matches, perhaps a dozen ? twenty? before they tier out. Also, it doesn't allow for the additional situation that several folks have raised above: a veteran player (presumably of higher tier) using the system to drop with a new player.

TLDR:
So. even if PGI can institute the Solo + 2noobs Hybrid Queue you appear to be proposing, the noob buddies can drop together only with other noobs in which case they will be able to use the system only as long as they are noobs, and that might be as few as three matches before they tier out. AND in such a system wherein we allow its use only in and with T5s they will have massive wait times since there just isn't that many folks at T5 who stay at T5. If we allow them to drop with higher tiers in order to reduce their wait times then the system fails to solve the problem you folks are complaining about in the first place. What am I missing?

[Mr Steinbrenner]

Two micced up 99% players in PIRs in SQ would be like HIV in mech form. It happens sometimes with sync drops and its always 2 guys with 7+ kills and the game is over in 5 minutes.

[fat4eyes]

I don't think that implementing a mixed solo/restricted group queue is going to be that hard. I remember when groups of up to four were allowed in solo queue (well before tiers were implemented). Solo queue is most likely implemented as a special case of group queue (with the max group size set to one), so allowing 2-mans in solo could just be as simple as setting the max group size to 2.

The main reason that I believe 2-mans won't be so unbalancing is that the group size is sufficiently small that sheer random selection has a decent chance of evening out the teams' probability of winning. Even in the worst case of a 2-man of top 1% players being on the opposing team, there's a good chance that your team will get at least 1 top 1% player which should give you a decent chance of victory. As long as the MM can ensure that the 2-man teams are spread relatively evenly between the 2 teams to even out the coordination advantages (ie a team of all solos should never go up against a team of 6 2-mans), sheer randomness should be enough to even out the teams' win probabilities.

The benefits of 2-mans also extend beyond bringing new players up to scratch. It's a lot easier to retain 2 players that enjoy playing the game together, than it is to retain 2 solo players. Being able to consistently play with someone you know brings a measure of enjoyment that is beyond what sheer game mechanics can offer to both of them separately.

[Wil McCullough]

Aloha, on 20 June 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

But that's just the way it should be. It's just there to help new players get the lay of the land with the help of a buddy, then off he goes on his own to T3 or QP with his buddy.

i think you may be underestimating how quickly players can rise to t4 or t3 with cadet bonus. most players with a basic grasp of independent torso/legs control (or if they come from games like world of tanks) come possessing enough "skill" to basically do well enough in a few games to catapult themselves into t4.

you put 2 of them together in a duo, they may seriously be "disqualified" from duo-ing up within five games or so.

also, the main objective of the duo-in-qp idea is for experienced players to bring newer friends into the game. that would mean a solely t5 restriction wouldn't work.

Quote

LOL. That's funny. It's not like those people don't already have plenty of excuses. If the solos choose to opt out after a few weeks, the QP queue will work exactly like it is now. So no biggy there.

good point.

Quote

Solaris was a great idea, but PGI's implementation is bit quirky. I don't understand why we have these divisions and why only certain mechs can be used. It just seems extremely limiting to me. And on that note, a Battle Royale mode in Solaris would be interesting. Four mechs enter. One mech leaves.

i agree. it "ticks all the boxes" but it lacks soul just like everything else in mwo. it reminds me of the irl difference between a building designed by an architect and a building designed by an engineer.

there is so much lore and cool things that could be done with solaris. betting, sabotage, sponsor advantages, match bonuses based on excitement (much like how some mma organisations give fighters bonuses for stand-and-bang), hell even unique mech variants/loadouts or something based on sponsors. ACTUAL mini-tournaments with tiers and prizes.

there's a wealth of interesting stuff there but they're all not included.

and then there's faction play and i don't even.

[Lykaon]

Mr Steinbrenner, on 21 June 2018 - 12:35 AM, said:

Two micced up 99% players in PIRs in SQ would be like HIV in mech form. It happens sometimes with sync drops and its always 2 guys with 7+ kills and the game is over in 5 minutes.

so,if I am reading you correctly here,your argument against two player groups is you feel 1% of the players will be doing nothing but around the clock seal clubbing the other 99% of players in 2 player groups piloting Pir-1 MG boats?

Or do you not realize...

1% of the players online at any given time is fewer than 20 and frequently less than 12.

this would mean that since you need two 1%ers to make a two player group this would be 10-6 groups in play at any given time

realisticly fewer than half of those 1% would be likely to even bother dropping in the "solo" queue rather than doing their normal routines of faction war/competative format/large group queue drops.So in actuallity we would see fewer than 6 and frequently none in the solo queue.

two 1%ers in PIR-1 machinegun boats is so easily countered I doubt that would be the meta they would employ if at all motivated to even do any sort of seal clubbing over doing what actually got them into the top 1%.

And mathamaticly if we had X number of players that were the top 1% of player skill paired off into teams and deployed against the other 99% in solos queue matches without both teams having a 1% pair that the number of matches in total that had a 1% pair in them would be HALF A PERCENT!

[Gwahlur]

Bud Crue, on 21 June 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

So to be clear here, the system that you are proposing that PGI institute here (PGI mind you) is as follows:

Solo Queue functioning as it is with its stellar match maker for creating balanced 12 v 12 matches but wherein 2 person groups are added in and allowed to drop into the "solo Queue", if and only if, each member of the 2 person group has a tier 5 PSR rating (perhaps even up to Tier 4?).

Is that correct?

If so, the problems I see with such a proposal:

First the obvious: this is likely beyond PGI's abilities. Full stop.

Second, and equally obvious: who do they drop with?

Yeah, tier 5, maybe including tier 4. I wouldn't expect to be able to group in solo queue now, I know how to play now. For me this was an issue only when I had just started playing and wanted to talk my friend into joining me. Needless to say 2 noobs got smacked around in group queue, no fun, friend didn't start playing with me.

And the groups would be dropped in the natural place for tier 5's, with tier 5 to 3 like it is now.

[Wil McCullough]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yeah, tier 5, maybe including tier 4. I wouldn't expect to be able to group in solo queue now, I know how to play now. For me this was an issue only when I had just started playing and wanted to talk my friend into joining me. Needless to say 2 noobs got smacked around in group queue, no fun, friend didn't start playing with me.

And the groups would be dropped in the natural place for tier 5's, with tier 5 to 3 like it is now.

So according to your proposal, if i'm an experienced T1 pilot and i have an interested friend who wants to join, we can't group?

[Gwahlur]

Wil McCullough, on 21 June 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

So according to your proposal, if i'm an experienced T1 pilot and i have an interested friend who wants to join, we can't group?

You can group in group queue. Or you could make an alt account and get a couple games in with them before (optimally) the system would recognize that your match score was too high to be allowed to group in quick play (or you could intentionally potato your match scores, in which case you wouldn't ruin the game for the rest of the t3-5's anyway).

But you probably have an established group you could bring them into, no?

Edited by Gwahlur, 21 June 2018 - 09:14 PM.

[S O L A I S]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

Yeah, tier 5, maybe including tier 4. I wouldn't expect to be able to group in solo queue now, I know how to play now. For me this was an issue only when I had just started playing and wanted to talk my friend into joining me. Needless to say 2 noobs got smacked around in group queue, no fun, friend didn't start playing with me.

And the groups would be dropped in the natural place for tier 5's, with tier 5 to 3 like it is now.

What would be the point of two bad/new players grouping up? As well have you stopped to consider how silly this suggestion is considering the current issues with matchmaker? Here check out this thread from Paul https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/266046-solo-queue-mm-update-30052018/

This is all verbal masturbation regardless as the current population wouldn't allow for it due to it increasing wait times with matchmaker having to go through additional hoops in which as the thread above from the man with the plan himself is clearly explaining.

There is just so much wrong with your suggestions and it is not even close to being anything that PGI would be willing to even consider. That's why these threads need to be pinned and merged instead of being continually and repeatedly brought up.

[Gwahlur]

The point is for new enthusiastic players to be able to play with friends they want to introduce to the game without getting roflstomped in group queue. I thought that would be selfexplanatory.

Maybe try to think outside your own bubble

[S O L A I S]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 09:26 PM, said:

The point is for new enthusiastic players to be able to play with friends they want to introduce to the game without getting roflstomped in group queue. I thought that would be selfexplanatory.

Maybe try to think outside your own bubble

You can get all upity. I was pretty polite but since you opened the door the idea is stupid and without merit. If you had even a bit of a clue about what's going on with the game including issues with match maker you would perhaps understand.

So forget my bubble, and read the thread I linked. Understand where the population is at and how old the game is. Learn from the information available about the issues matchmaker already has. For the record I don't even touch quick play even for the MC events because I like playing with friends with zero restrictions. Where can you do that? Glad you asked, CW of coarse. Oh but it is far from new player friendly so guess we know already how you feel about that one.

[Gwahlur]

Are you really talking about low population while shooting down a suggestion for getting new people into the game?

[Luminis]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Are you really talking about low population while shooting down a suggestion for getting new people into the game?

Ever considered that such a change might drive more people off than the fistful of guys begging for it are gonna bring in?

[Gwahlur]

Luminis, on 21 June 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

Ever considered that such a change might drive more people off than the fistful of guys begging for it are gonna bring in?

My suggestion? No, I don't see how it could?

Edited by Gwahlur, 21 June 2018 - 10:07 PM.

[Luminis]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

My suggestion? No, I don't see how it could?

You don't see how people who currently play at a low Tier solo could be driven off by making them face duos?

I guess that does explain a lot, though.

[Gwahlur]

Luminis, on 21 June 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

You don't see how people who currently play at a low Tier solo could be driven off by making them face duos?

I guess that does explain a lot, though.

Thing is, you all seem to have forgotten how it was to be new in this game. Solo or duo doesn't really matter when none of you have any clue what you're doing

[Wil McCullough]

Gwahlur, on 21 June 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

You can group in group queue. Or you could make an alt account and get a couple games in with them before (optimally) the system would recognize that your match score was too high to be allowed to group in quick play (or you could intentionally potato your match scores, in which case you wouldn't ruin the game for the rest of the t3-5's anyway).

But you probably have an established group you could bring them into, no?

But the main complaint is that when a player brings a new friend into the game, they get crushed in group queue. So now you've proposed a solution with restrictions that render the solution moot.

That is unless i create a smurf account to get around the restriction, with the effect of me being placed against players of vastly lower skill level. That's how to seal club. Which is something you scorned in your previous post.

The original complaint is that queueing as a duo for group queue takes too long. Your proposed solution makes it impossible for them to even find a match. Because in order to make a fair match, both sides have to contain duos. And if both duos have to be made up of fresh/T5 players, the odds that 4 of them are duo-ed up and queuing at the same time is so low compared to the rest of the solo population that it doesn't work.

It will only work if the population is high enough, but the lack of population is why players have these problems in the first place.

TL;DR: you came up with a solution that isn't a solution.

I don't even.

edit:
you guys in the "i want duos in qp" camp seriously need to get your act together. you all want different things and all of you guys keep adding your own twist to the proposal that screws everyone else other than a small subset of the population that you've decided to champion. and that screwing includes the other guys who also want duos in qp.

you guys are asking for changes that will literally destroy the game. are you all HG trolls trying to get back at PGI for winning the lawsuit or something? lol

Edited by Wil McCullough, 22 June 2018 - 03:59 AM.