657 replies to this topic

[NocturnalBeast]

Andi Nagasia, on 01 July 2018 - 01:49 PM, said:

um RACs were Standard Tech by 3062, so they couldnt really be introduced 38 years later,
we are currently in the year 3068, so both RAC2/5 are very much in timeline for us,

also when searching for [Mixed Tech] on Sarna, the first item in the search is the Jackalope,
which has a production date of 3134, most of what else appears is mostly mechs around that time,
the earlyest Mix-Tech mech is the Cephalus, which has a production date of 3072, only 4 years away,

why do i bring up standard tech and production dates?
MWO currently has only Standard Tech, no Advanced or Experimental Tech,
im not aware of any Standardized Mixed Tech before the Cephalus in 3072,

PGI could just advace the timeline again, they have done it twice already. Yes, if they advance to the next era then they would need to add the Word of Blake and then change the factions to IS + Clans vs WOB.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ed Steele, on 01 July 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

PGI could just advace the timeline again, they have done it twice already. Yes, if they advance to the next era then they would need to add the Word of Blake and then change the factions to IS + Clans vs WOB.

personally i would like for PGI to Move the Timeline up, HAGs, LightACs, MGArrays, could be fun to use,
Perhaps not to WOB, as things break down 3086, but sure up to perhaps 3072 to the Cephalus,

but its likely that if the Cephalus were released it likely would use a diffrent construction system,
as its type if discribed as Mixed-Tech likely it would have access to all tech, but not all mechs would,
as in Lore Mixed-Tech wasnt common, it was considered Experimental, as the modifications necessary,

but even at that we have Standard Tech thats not yet been added into MWO,
such as Small Cockpits, and XL-Gyros, both could help IS mechs save 1-3Tons,
See Topic(Cockpits & Gyros! Is Cockpit & Gyro Options?)

.

but all in all we are getting off Topic,
we are here to discuss,
1) C-Guass perhaps getting a Recoil Shake when firing,
2) C-Lasers getting a Damage Reduction(as well as perhaps a Duration/Heat/Cooldown Reduction)
and the validity of such changes and how they could effect all levels of play in MWO,

[NocturnalBeast]

Andi Nagasia, on 01 July 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

1) C-Guass perhaps getting a Recoil Shake when firing,

No, I believe that this is punitive and unnecessary.

Andi Nagasia, on 01 July 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

2) C-Lasers getting a Damage Reduction(as well as perhaps a Duration/Heat/Cooldown Reduction)
and the validity of such changes and how they could effect all levels of play in MWO,

This will just make Clans resort to LBXs and LRMs and people will start crying about LRMs again and LRMs will then be "adjusted" again.


Yes, I have already stated these things, but I am stating it again to get back on topic.

[Christof Romulus]

Hmm.

I find myself ambivalent on this.

Just to give some background on my background - I am an Inner Sphere player predominantly. I just prefer the tech base and have fought for House Steiner since 2012.

With that said, I've felt the Inner Sphere was on the back-foot for quite some time after the release of the Clan mechs into MWO. This is expressed numerically in every aspect of the game, from the number of times the Clan has beat the Inner sphere, or to how many times Tournaments for money feature clan mechs nearly exclusively, to the fact that written on every weapon is a lighter tonnage with greater damage and range.

Even so I still find myself with mixed feelings about this potential change. Clan has been so much more powerful than Inner Sphere for so long I honestly don't think the game would be the same if that weren't the case. I don't want to sound like someone with Stockholm syndrome but at this point, I'm pretty used to this and find myself more often than not victorious against the Clans.

Honestly Mechwarrior Online has a lot of issues, and balancing TTK is a huge challenge when one tech-base is, by design, inferior in every possible way. All of the previous games didn't handicap the player by forcing them to use only one tech-base. Every successful mechwarrior title allowed for players to just use Clan tech. Even so, I don't know if that would be the solution in Mechwarrior Online.

Battlemechs are better than OmniMechs - that's a fact. One of the first balancing factors that Piranha used was forcing OmniMechs to use locked equipment. This hurt some mechs (Thor/Summoner) more than others (Timberwolf/Direwolf) but it served its purpose, preventing pure and limitless customization, which with Clan tech would outright end any semblance of balance between IS and Clan. Currently the Clan Battlemechs are easily the best mechs in the game, combining that Clan technology (basically the Clan XL engine, and half-weight/size weapons) with the Inner Sphere's level of customization.

The problem here is, we can't just give the Inner Sphere clan technology. Every mech in the IS is a Battlemech, and despite the disparity between the two factions some of which do quite well already. Giving the Annihilator Clan ultra-autocannons for example would just take something that's already on the far edge of balanced (if not overpowered) and just shove it the rest of the way off the board.

On the other hand, how do we balance things? With buffs to the IS? More quirks? Or do we go with Nerfs? Less damage? Less range? With every tech base that comes out TTK takes a nose-dive. This is why Single Heatsinks got buffed 3 times since their inception - the sheer gameplay is so remarkably different with Single heatsinks that the game doesn't even FEEL like the current version of Mechwarrior Online. If we buff the Inner Sphere so that the damage gulf isn't over 30 points (literally an AC 20 and an AC 10 hitting at the same time) then that means that TTK takes another nose dive. Inner sphere battlemechs don't exclusively shoot at clan battlemechs after all.

Is increasing all damage for the Inner Sphere and reducing TTK again the right move, leaving the Clan equipment untouched? I honestly don't feel it is. What about tanking Clan damage? Honestly that doesn't feel right either. Do I even have a proposal for how to fix this? Dunno.

Perhaps instead of viewing damage on a per-hit basis, it's viewed as an over-time thing. Reduce the damage that Clan Lasers do, but drastically reduce the cooldown AND HEAT, so their damage over time remains the same. This would INCREASE TTK while maintaining their damage over time. Or, instead of buffing Inner Sphere damage, reduce burn duration to a real degree while increasing cooldown, making Inner Sphere lasers be more instant.

Clan LURM is just superior to IS Lurm, and that can't really be addressed due to weapon weight and size, but for Ballistics, just fix the IS Ultra Auto cannons so they fire slugs.

How about diminishing returns? Instead of having all clan weapons just do less (thereby hurting weaker mechs even more, like the Summoner) how about clan weapons have diminishing returns when clustered?

I honestly don't know - I'm just spitballing. Maybe something will stick - but I don't know if the Clan weapons all need a nerf across the board just because there are four clan mechs that can core out an Atlas in 1 shot.

[A Headless Chicken]

Tesunie, on 30 June 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

Jump shooting is dead.

Remember that you said that.

I managed to jump shoot with many mechs without problem. It might not be "the meta", but not too long ago wasn'e the dual ERPPC Summoner and Hunchback IICs a thing? I must just be imagining it of course.

I'm wondering as to whom actually does know game mechanics and features, and who doesn't here...

But remember, jump shooting is dead.
(Haven't even touched your comment about brawling being dead...)

Very astute, in noticing that poptarts are "not meta" - that is the whole problem to begin with. By having the only reliable ranged (~800m) poptarts deal a measly 20 (+10) damage in 2 CERPPC builds, with 5 second cooldowns to boot, there is too little viability due to only being able to use tickle sticks. So obviously people gravitate to laser vomit. Can a poptart counter laser vomit? Possibly, but with 20 damage it's not punishing enough as a real counter. So bring back 45 PPFLD, but nothing more that that.

As for brawling, are you telling me that with SRM spread nerfed across the board and mech engine desync causing crappy mobility, that a brawler could actually be as dominant as it was before? I could carry matches on end in a single brawler before. Now I only get good matches every 3 or 4 games because of nerfs combined with the meta shifting to window lickers with LRMs and most players jumping ship to ranged dakka/vomit encouraging passive gameplay. Improve mobility, and reduce SRM spread. Oh, and buff SPLs on both sides while at it.

If these two styles are truly well and alive as you say they are, there would be no need to fix the damn vomit "oh 94 alpha OP" problem to begin with because there would be playstyles that were not vomit and viable as counters.

[Imperius]

Andi Nagasia, on 01 July 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

personally i would like for PGI to Move the Timeline up, HAGs, LightACs, MGArrays, could be fun to use,
Perhaps not to WOB, as things break down 3086, but sure up to perhaps 3072 to the Cephalus,

but its likely that if the Cephalus were released it likely would use a diffrent construction system,
as its type if discribed as Mixed-Tech likely it would have access to all tech, but not all mechs would,
as in Lore Mixed-Tech wasnt common, it was considered Experimental, as the modifications necessary,

but even at that we have Standard Tech thats not yet been added into MWO,
such as Small Cockpits, and XL-Gyros, both could help IS mechs save 1-3Tons,
See Topic(Cockpits & Gyros! Is Cockpit & Gyro Options?)

.

but all in all we are getting off Topic,
we are here to discuss,
1) C-Guass perhaps getting a Recoil Shake when firing,
2) C-Lasers getting a Damage Reduction(as well as perhaps a Duration/Heat/Cooldown Reduction)
and the validity of such changes and how they could effect all levels of play in MWO,

Stop touching Gauss is sucks enough as is Chris! You already killed assaults imo.

[C337Skymaster]

Admittedly, I had to skip from page 2 to page 30, or the thread would be locked before I got to the end. I just wanted to add my two cents and see what people think. (I haven't seen any mention of it, so my apologies if it was on page 18 and I missed it).

My two cents are these: permanent chain fire. It seems like the problems that we keep having are high-alpha-strike builds that can put a lot of damage in one location. Also, we're having trouble with the fact that aiming is done manually, not by throwing dice, thus making it WAY more precise and accurate. By clicking one button and firing EVERYTHING, we're ensuring that the entire amount of the damage dealt is applied to a single point on the enemy, which has resulted in some 'mechs requiring durability increases because they have a specific and easily recognized weak point which such alpha strikes could decimate.

If, however, all weapon groups were forced to always be chain fire, and there was no longer a group fire option, then the most anyone would be able to fire at once is however many buttons they can hold down at the same time.

I have an 8-button mouse. It's ambidextrous, and I use all six weapon groups, trying to assign weapons based on left/right, so I can keep track of where they're coming from when I fire. I'll tell you, even when I use two buttons at once, there's a split second delay in my own muscle actuation, so that two weapons will hit two components as often as they'll hit one, and three or four (requiring side-buttons) fly even more wild than that. So sure, someone can just assign one weapon to a weapon group and shoot all the groups at once, but I'll tell ya: it's not as OP as it sounds, and it's CERTAINLY not as OP as being able to fire 10 weapons on a single button at the same microsecond.

If you go play Battletech for a round or two, or read any of the Battletech Books, you'll begin to realize that Chain Fire is all there was. This instantaneous discharge of every single weapon is a MechWarrior phenomenon, not a Battletech one, and maybe it's part of the problem... And maybe, just "maybe", we can start to reduce or eliminate quirks, and let 'mechs stand on their own merits.

[Tesunie]

A Headless Chicken, on 01 July 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

If these two styles are truly well and alive as you say they are, there would be no need to fix the damn vomit "oh 94 alpha OP" problem to begin with because there would be playstyles that were not vomit and viable as counters.

Poptarting is still viable, it's just not "Meta". You can poptart with a larger variety of weapons than you seem to think.

Brawling is also still viable, but it's not the "meta". A good brawler build can still do well.

To call each "dead" insinuates that they "can't be done with any effectiveness", which isn't true at all. Why, tonight alone I poptarted with my Huntsmen (LPL and 4 MPL), and despite poping up from nearly the same exact spot, I manged to almost core a Warhammer (3 LLs and I think 4 MLs) with minimal damage before he wised up and just ran away. Poptarting fears PPFLD. Poptarting also isn't viable on everything that can jump. If it isn't nimble enough, it can't do it very well. But it can still be done and do decent.

For the record, I can still even do this in the Victor with dual L Gauss and twin ERLLs, though to be fair it's not as good as other mechs at it (mostly because it's an assault). The Huntsmen and Nova make good platforms, though a lot of people don't utilize the JJs on those mechs, which is where they gain some of their strength from. Of course, I placed skills into the JJs, so that may have something to do with this.

I think it's incorrect to say that poptarting is dead, when I still see plenty of it. It can still be done, and done well. it's just not nearly as powerful as it once was is all.



As Mischief and Greene already stated, this game is a trade and then push game. (They each are correct.) This game rewards trading at mid to long range till one side gains an advantage. Then, once an advantage is gained, the team with an advantage tends to then push the other team, and a push often times (almost always) ends in a brawl.

This can be done by some teammates being set up for the ranged combat, and others meanwhile being set up for brawling. Right now, mid ranged high alpha poke builds are the ones that are the meta. That is, of course, until something else is seen as "more powerful", either by nerfs/buffs or a counter build/strategy that can beat the poke builds. It's the nature of this game.

[Tesunie]

C337Skymaster, on 01 July 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

If you go play Battletech for a round or two, or read any of the Battletech Books, you'll begin to realize that Chain Fire is all there was. This instantaneous discharge of every single weapon is a MechWarrior phenomenon, not a Battletech one, and maybe it's part of the problem... And maybe, just "maybe", we can start to reduce or eliminate quirks, and let 'mechs stand on their own merits.

I just want to comment that, in lore and in BT, several weapon systems could and often times did fire at once. I can recall a specific scene (I think it was from the Warrior Trilogy) where someone was in the Solaris arenas and "held his 6 MPLs" for most of the fight. After fighting his opponent, he got close and then shot all his MPLs at once in a light show, mostly for the crowd. The main character commented that he should have been using those MPLs, instead of pretending he didn't have them.

So, by lore, you COULD shoot all your weapons at once. Via BT, you shoot your weapons within a 10 second interval. Part of the risking shut down roll was to see if your pilot managed their heat by spacing their shot, and/or if they managed to hit the override button before he shut down.


Also, I don't like your suggestion and I don't believe it would be good for the game. Of course, we are each entitled to our own opinions. PS: Your suggestion was already posted by someone else, so it's already been covered. Not that a repeat is necessarily a bad thing.

[doctormanuse]

C337Skymaster, on 01 July 2018 - 08:15 PM, said:

My two cents are these: permanent chain fire. It seems like the problems that we keep having are high-alpha-strike builds that can put a lot of damage in one Location.

....

If you go play Battletech for a round or two, or read any of the Battletech Books, you'll begin to realize that Chain Fire is all there was. This instantaneous discharge of every single weapon is a MechWarrior phenomenon, not a Battletech one, and maybe it's part of the problem... And maybe, just "maybe", we can start to reduce or eliminate quirks, and let 'mechs stand on their own merits.

In my eyes, the pin Point is exactly the Problem. And it is also not Logical. Just from technical Point of view it is very difficult -if not impossible - to get a number of weapons located in different Locations on the mech (sometimes meters away from each other!) to hit the same spot on a target that is hundrets of meters away. This would only be possible if every weapon has a mechanism to compensate ist Position relative to the target. Just think about the dual heavy gaus on a fafnir that can hit pin Point with both projectiles on the site Torso of a light mech that is very small. This is technically very unrealistic!

I think the easiest way would be to introduce Kind of a natural spread. Maybe only weaopns in the same hitbox Location can hit within a very small area on the target, while weapons in other Location hit somewhere else... or even miss. This would allow to Keep everthing as is and no Need to create ghhost heat, just increase the spread of high Alphas so damage gets distributed. Maybe the targeting Computer can Play a role on the spread, making them more valuable for those who want to take out componentes instantly.

[NocturnalBeast]

doctormanuse, on 01 July 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

In my eyes, the pin Point is exactly the Problem. And it is also not Logical. Just from technical Point of view it is very difficult -if not impossible - to get a number of weapons located in different Locations on the mech (sometimes meters away from each other!) to hit the same spot on a target that is hundrets of meters away. This would only be possible if every weapon has a mechanism to compensate ist Position relative to the target. Just think about the dual heavy gaus on a fafnir that can hit pin Point with both projectiles on the site Torso of a light mech that is very small. This is technically very unrealistic!

I think the easiest way would be to introduce Kind of a natural spread. Maybe only weaopns in the same hitbox Location can hit within a very small area on the target, while weapons in other Location hit somewhere else... or even miss. This would allow to Keep everthing as is and no Need to create ghhost heat, just increase the spread of high Alphas so damage gets distributed. Maybe the targeting Computer can Play a role on the spread, making them more valuable for those who want to take out componentes instantly.

If people cry enough and PGI does decide to eliminate convergence, then I would prefer that they just make every weapon just fire straight forward in the direction it is mounted rather than have some convoluted RNG "cone" of fire crap. Seriously though, making everyone's weapons spread damage all over is not going to make you a better player.

Edited by Ed Steele, 01 July 2018 - 10:12 PM.

[Shaggath]

Vesper11, on 01 July 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

Mix tech so people will play some mechs even less because other faction has better mech? Everyone the same the game, thanks but no. It will also make asymmetrical balance impossible as people will simply pick the best and drop the rest.

it's not already the case ......

i can't count the number of variant and is model know as garbage and never play.

Actually clan is just i can run more with better dissipation, it's just a flat advantage, and IS it's just play with handicap but you have 10 armor bonus on some variant.
Great deal

In battlemech IS/CLAN exist but not balance with tonnage but cost and in this case for one Grobill clan mech you see 8 awesome in front and in this case a really good clan warrior is required.
And in reality people play IS vs IS | Clan vs Clan.
IS vs Clan is not intresting.
The money industry and fresh meat is really in favor of IS.

At the end if i play IS vs Clan all my mech have reflec armor compact gyro to nullify clan damage advantage, lrm mine on all the field and one chameleon, IS don't care about fairplay.

How to be legged by mine and a ****** hidden mech come to slay you in the back.
Is is all about combined tactic cluster swarm and number and don't hesitate to use shameful tactic.

If we have access all IS Tech we can be more then competitive actually we have rac mrm hgauss.
From battletech IS loose :
Reflective armor
Hardened armor
Null sig
chameleon
Lrm mine
Swarm lrm
MML
Plasma rifle
Machine gun array
Compact engine
Light autocannon
A lot of Ammunition for ac and light canon
But in this case AP is the more intresting give critical chance all the time and not only when you hit internal.


Clan Loose :
HAG
Fire resistant armor
Plasma canon

Edited by Shaggath, 02 July 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[Tesunie]

Ed Steele, on 01 July 2018 - 10:11 PM, said:

If people cry enough and PGI does decide to eliminate convergence, then I would prefer that they just make every weapon just fire straight forward in the direction it is mounted rather than have some convoluted RNG "cone" of fire crap. Seriously though, making everyone's weapons spread damage all over is not going to make you a better player.

Many of us aren't wanting "no convergence". We do recall when delayed convergence was a thing and the game felt nicer back then. Convergence is an issue, but what and how we can fix that are always up for debate. However, delayed convergence was removed for HSR due to lag.

Cone of fire is an attempt to possibly have the delayed convergence back into the game (in a sense) and reduce the pin point of instant convergence. It would only be designed to spread damage a little, not make shots "go wide and miss" (though that may happen if it manged to spread enough).

The concept isn't to "make people better players", but to make more builds/mechs viable and improve TTK. Wouldn't it be nice to possibly remove most/all of the quirks in the game? Have it so old play styles/builds become viable again. Rather than have GH, the cone of fire could possibly take it's place instead.

Of course, we are just "spitballing" ideas at the moment. I'll also comment that it's okay if you don't like the idea.

I am curious as to why you don't like the concept, and what you conceive it to actually be. I think a lot of people are thinking "very wide shots" rather than "slight shifts in accuracy". I mean, I'll say if we could have delayed convergence again, I'd jump on that right away, but I don't think that can make it back into the game without removing HSR (which would be bad).

[Agent of Change]

Tesunie, on 02 July 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

Of course, we are just "spitballing" ideas at the moment. I'll also comment that it's okay if you don't like the idea.

I am curious as to why you don't like the concept, and what you conceive it to actually be. I think a lot of people are thinking "very wide shots" rather than "slight shifts in accuracy". I mean, I'll say if we could have delayed convergence again, I'd jump on that right away, but I don't think that can make it back into the game without removing HSR (which would be bad).

Not to put words in the mouths of opposition, but it has been my experience that the response is usually "Anything less than pinpoint accuracy to within a micron of where the mouse cursor is at all times in all situations is RNG that renders skill pointless." or some such hyperbole.

I'm all for delayed convergence or even adjustable fixed distance convergence. I mean that at least makes the game interesting and requires a bit more effort to remain fully effective. Automatic instant convergence was a problem way back when and it's still a bit of a problem now, especially when combined with alphas 3 times stringer than the used to be.

[Shaggath]

Convergence tweak is stupid because convergence nerf ballistic not laser.

With ballistic you need to predict and shoot where the guy go where laser is less affected because instant.
At the end delayed convergence make ballistic can never converge because the time you acquired the convergence you hit miss.

Ballistic are fine they just nerf gauss because the low heat profile work well with heavy heat laser loadout.

They just need to nerf clan laser putting heavy at 14 damage under c erppc and shiffting down other according to the heavy.
Like that ppc retreive a role, like gauss and ballistic.
And clan have always advantage, xxl engine heatsink size and all weapon with less slot and tons, omnipod desactivate actuator ...
Balance something when all aspect are better is more then tricky it's impossible.

The real question is to find what % bonus efficiency is acceptable for clan.
Actually is near 50 % in raw damage 94 max where innersphere do 50/60.
If you add in this mix 60 damage for innersphere is make with :

• 2Hgauss (200 meter) and laser for pinpoint on few mech.
  
• 3 LARGE/4 medium
  
• MRM/LBX for spread damage.

Lot of this build work on clan too with a better result but laser are so good they outshine other weapon.


If we take all of that in mind we can say the real effiency on big alpha loadout is more then 50% for same mech class.

If we look on clan ballistic the bonus efficiency is near 30 % because same damage but you free more space and tons.

Edited by Shaggath, 03 July 2018 - 04:00 AM.

[MiZia]

If u compare Max alpha Builds u cannnot compare standars with specific...
A Std IS laser Vom Build is good for 52-57 where a Clan does 64-71 where the IS can fire 2 times BEFORE the Clan can do the second burn.
If u compare Max alpha Builds u got to do a 94 alpha vs a 86 alpha from Dire/DS vs Anni builds even if the Clan has an Range advantage.
If u where aware of what is played by good pilots like Proton (just watch his streams) u would see that Dires and DS with that alpha are only barely played cause substained DPS is bad.

[Tesunie]

Shaggath, on 03 July 2018 - 02:55 AM, said:

Convergence tweak is stupid because convergence nerf ballistic not laser.

With ballistic you need to predict and shoot where the guy go where laser is less affected because instant.
At the end delayed convergence make ballistic can never converge because the time you acquired the convergence you hit miss.

Convergence would also have an effect on lasers as well. It did back when we had delayed convergence before HSR. (Back then PPCs and most ballistics where bad not from delayed convergence but rather from lag.)

In the account of lasers, most people would probably shoot their lasers as soon as they are on target. Their lasers would start unfocused (from being converged on the background), and then as they beam they will move into convergence. This would result in the weapons probably moving from the side torsos to the CT (if one was shooting for the CT), causing some damage spread.

Meanwhile, with ballistics, you'd shoot them and they would be likely (if lead correctly) to land on two different locations, instead of on a single one. Ballistic leading actually wouldn't really change much if at all than it is right now, besides those that don't need to have leading done, which is only the fastest velocity weapons and even then.

[Shaggath]

MiZia, on 03 July 2018 - 05:10 AM, said:

If u compare Max alpha Builds u cannnot compare standars with specific...
A Std IS laser Vom Build is good for 52-57 where a Clan does 64-71 where the IS can fire 2 times BEFORE the Clan can do the second burn.
If u compare Max alpha Builds u got to do a 94 alpha vs a 86 alpha from Dire/DS vs Anni builds even if the Clan has an Range advantage.
If u where aware of what is played by good pilots like Proton (just watch his streams) u would see that Dires and DS with that alpha are only barely played cause substained DPS is bad.

We don't care about cd nerf is balanced on cd to keep same dps.
And after two shoot you heat is so high you wait more then one cooldown.
And putting more in one shoot is less dangerous then two exposition.
With 2 clan kill with 3 an IS kill.
And when we compare light and medium the gap is bigger.

And substained dps is bad because laser are too strong and ppc have loose her spot.
A partial shoot of laser can make more damage.

Edited by Shaggath, 03 July 2018 - 08:48 AM.

[MiZia]

Shaggath, on 03 July 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

We don't care about cd nerf is balanced on cd to keep same dps.
And after two shoot you heat is so high you wait more then one cooldown.
And putting more in one shoot is less dangerous then two exposition.
With 2 clan kill with 3 an IS kill.
And when we compare light and medium the gap is bigger.

And substained dps is bad because laser are too strong and ppc have loose her spot.
A partial shoot of laser can make more damage.

There is the problem, fights r won even before getting on field. Build properly and u will c that a WHM with laservom vs can shoot 3 52 alphas w/o shot before overheat whereas a HBR can shot 2 64s followed by 4 mlas before overheat on avrg heat map. its 156 vs 156 dmg.
Same for anni vs Dire/DS.
If u nerf one side only u create even more imbalance.
As mostly FP player ill just switch to IS and enjoy my even more powerful Machines.

[lazorbeamz]

MiZia, on 03 July 2018 - 05:10 AM, said:

If u compare Max alpha Builds u cannnot compare standars with specific...
A Std IS laser Vom Build is good for 52-57 where a Clan does 64-71 where the IS can fire 2 times BEFORE the Clan can do the second burn.
If u compare Max alpha Builds u got to do a 94 alpha vs a 86 alpha from Dire/DS vs Anni builds even if the Clan has an Range advantage.
If u where aware of what is played by good pilots like Proton (just watch his streams) u would see that Dires and DS with that alpha are only barely played cause substained DPS is bad.

Clans have better laser dps AND alpha. Dps due to cooling using 20-24+ double heat sinks.