280 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

there is no need to nerf the range and duration on clan lasers if the damage is lowered... youre overnerfing.

just lower the damage of CERML to 6 and readjust its heat/duration/cooldown accordingly and thats the ONLY change it needs.

it doesnt need a damage nerf, range nerf, and duration nerf. that is absurd.

the only goal here should be to lower the max alpha of laser vomit to a more reasonable level. Lowering CERML to 6 damage and CHLL to 16 damage is really all you needed to do. increasing beam duration on weapons that already have excessively long beam durations is ridiculous.


And clan gauss needs a real fix. adding recoil doesnt reduce the high alphastrike damage. it just forces you to fire your lasers first then the gauss. clan gauss should be lowered to 12 damage but given a faster rate of fire and better range. thats appropriate considering that its a full 3 tons lighter than IS gauss.


lastly if you want damage to spread around more.... I dunno maybe increase mech agility more? nerfing mech agility (as well as the mobility skill tree sucking) caused a lot of the problems with laser vomit in the first place.

Edited by Khobai, 26 July 2018 - 09:33 PM.

[frumpylumps]

Stop walking back needed nerfs for the ones these biased clan babies prefer. Slightly increased laser duration is not going to diminish the gap significantly.

Edited by frumpylumps, 26 July 2018 - 09:31 PM.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Why don't you just link more weapon systems together to count towards existing ghost heat caps for Clan lasers?

Like you did with Gauss and PPC, except link Clan weapon systems like gauss to lasers, and ER lasers to heavy lasers. (and other combinations that are done to get more than 4/6 lasers to fire without heat scale) That would mean the new alpha without ghost heat would be dual gauss plus 4erml, 4mpl or 4hml... And 2HLL plus 2 HML, 2mpl or 2 erml…. Or 2 LPL and 4 erml/mpl/hml, and so on...

The beauty of adjusting what gets ghost heated and what the cap number is, you only impact the high alpha builds which depend on those combinations of weapons in high numbers. Smaller mechs can't carry those builds, so they can keep right on running effective but not overpowered builds, while only the overpowered builds have to adapt.

And by the way, on the IS side I would also ghost heat anything shot in conjunction with 2x heavy gauss. I would also look at a ghost heat cap applied to certain combinations involving machine guns for the introduction of heat scale.

You don't have to change values for entire categories of weapons and hope you don't overdo it, wrecking who knows how many mechs, and wrecking learned playstyles for virtually your entire player base... Just correct the overpowered builds only a relative few players regularly run anyways.


Has anyone considered this method with any seriousness? If so and you decided against it, why?

Edited by ShooteyMcShooterson, 26 July 2018 - 09:37 PM.

[Yondu Udonta]

Skimming through the whole thread I can estimate that at least 95% of posts are ******** on PGI while the 5% is supporting PGI with the PTS. One of the main reasons is that PGI has all the gameplay data hence they would know best on what to do. But what's the use of all the data when you don't play your game? PGI is probably staring at the data gathered and the data is staring back at them. And then they probably come to the conclusion that certain weapons need to be changed because the lowest common denominator is crying clam laser vomit OP/94 alpha OP/buff lurms. It's like giving a person who doesn't know how to cook the best ingredients and asking him to make a meal out of it. He's gonna make a ******* mess out of it.

I don't see the developers playing FP. I don't see the developers playing QP. I don't see the developers playing Solaris. Do they even know how much lurms are being used these days? Do they even know that most Clan pilots in FP are preferring dakka over laser vomit? Do they even know that the KGC-000 should belong in Div1 because of the amount of AC2s it can boat? Do they even know that people clagging are getting average matchscores of 500+ in QP without even making visual contact with the enemy? You cannot substitute testing on the PTS in 4v4 scenarios and coming up with the conclusion that hey it's gonna work for 12v12s or highly-coordinated 12v12s. Pretty darn sure you guys know that changing dependent variables lead to different results.

[NUMBERZero1032]

InnerSphereNews, on 25 July 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

Inner Sphere Armor Changes.



The following Inner Sphere designs have seen a reduction to their current defensive quirks:

• Bushwacker: All variants
  
• Cyclops: Sleipnir
  
• Annihilator: All variants
  
• Fafnir: All variants

YOU TOUCH MY BUSHWACKER AND FAFNIR?

Of all things, you touch the Fafnir. Really? It's a walking CT. You (sorta) took a step in the right direction when you transferred some side torso armor over to the center ((((SORTA)))), but now you're just plain reducing it all? That's really bad.
I guess because LRM's aren't burning through it fast enough it requires an armor nerf. I can't see any other reason why you would do that.

Edited by NUMBERZero1032, 26 July 2018 - 10:21 PM.

[lazorbeamz]

frumpylumps, on 26 July 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Stop walking back needed nerfs for the ones these biased clan babies prefer. Slightly increased laser duration is not going to diminish the gap significantly.

Well yes a step backwards. But 1.6 sec erll is funny. They asked to keep their damage and they get it lol. It is equivalently bad or even a worse nerf and i like both. I want an actual patch to play though and not continious PTS testing.

[Steve Pryde]

Khobai, on 26 July 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

And clan gauss needs a real fix. adding recoil doesnt reduce the high alphastrike damage. it just forces you to fire your lasers first then the gauss. clan gauss should be lowered to 12 damage but given a faster rate of fire and better range. thats appropriate considering that its a full 3 tons lighter than IS gauss.

And remove the bonus from critting out the weapon system.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 27 July 2018 - 01:09 AM.

[Major Major Catch 22]

Squeaky wheels getting the attention.

PGI stand strong, Mechs need to be different. Some definitely need to be better than others ! Otherwise why have more than one type.
Any changes to "best" or "metta" then the players will find another (we all love to problem solve). Trying to make everything balanced by whingers will please nobody and therefore everyone leaves,\

So what if this is best today, Change the maps not the mechs, then we will find whats better and therefore a better build,
let us problem solve the enivronment NOT have to min max on mechs and variants.

map changes keep us interested
New maps keeps us interested

changing mechs and weapons does not

thankyou

[Weeny Machine]

Ensaine, on 26 July 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

STOP this.. like right away.

If you stand there like a moomah, and take a full laser discharge to the face, then you deserve to die. Period.

The laser alphas are so high that you do not need to get a full barrage in. Take a medium mech. Most have 40ish armour on a ST. A laser alpha of 80 isn't so uncommon. Is it so hard to keep a beam pointing for 0.6 seconds on a ST of a medium mech - especially when a good human reaction time is about 0.3 seconds?
This means that ST is now open. The next alpha there and the mech goes boom. Wow, now that was an achievement for Captain Laserspam.

Again: is that such a huge feat for you, with a noob-tube hitscan weapons? Actually LRMs need more skills to be used effectively than pointing a lightbeam on a target.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 27 July 2018 - 12:28 AM.

[PobbestGob]

Bush Hopper, on 27 July 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

The laser alphas are so high that you do not need to get a full barrage in. Take a medium mech. Most have 40ish armour on a ST. A laser alpha of 80 isn't so uncommon. Is it so hard to keep a beam pointing for 0.6 seconds on a ST of a medium mech - especially when a good human reaction time is about 0.3 seconds?
This means that ST is now open. The next alpha there and the mech goes boom. Wow, now that was an achievement for Captain Laserspam.

Again: is that such a huge feat for you, with a noob-tube hitscan weapons? Actually LRMs need more skills to be used effectively than pointing a lightbeam on a target.

Actually a laser alpha of 80 is extremely uncommon, you'd probably only see it on a mad-iic or a sad dire whale. The standard hellbringer is 64 (2HLL, 4ermed), the usual deathstrike is 72 (6 ermed dual gauss). The only way you'd get an 80pt alpha from a clan mech is with mountains of ghost heat or heavy/er large lasers, which have durations of 1.35 and 1.55 seconds, two and almost three times 0.6. The only clan laser with a duration of 0.6 seconds or less is the small pulse and micro pulse lasers, which are hardly OP. Even the ermed which is the most commonly used has twice the duration of 0.6 seconds. This post is far from the reality of the game.

Edited by Kill2Blit, 27 July 2018 - 01:42 AM.

[Ensaine]

Bush Hopper, on 27 July 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

The laser alphas are so high that you do not need to get a full barrage in. Take a medium mech. Most have 40ish armour on a ST. A laser alpha of 80 isn't so uncommon. Is it so hard to keep a beam pointing for 0.6 seconds on a ST of a medium mech - especially when a good human reaction time is about 0.3 seconds?
This means that ST is now open. The next alpha there and the mech goes boom. Wow, now that was an achievement for Captain Laserspam.

Again: is that such a huge feat for you, with a noob-tube hitscan weapons? Actually LRMs need more skills to be used effectively than pointing a lightbeam on a target.

I don't know how you're playing Tier 1 and say this ^ ???

As posted above, the standard Alpha is 64, and you can't do it back to back without a coolshot. If the target just stood there, it's on him. If he washed it across multiple surfaces, he's got some yellow spots.

If someone trimmed their armor to get that extra SRM in, then, it's on him.

The 'common' 80 point Alpha you mention is almost nonexistent ......

One semi-standard build of Mad Cat has a 72 point Alpha, IF he slings his lasers. He won't be doing that again anytime soon.
Of that 72, 30 is instant from the 2x Gauss.. the rest, all lasers, easily spread across the entire torso, assuming said target isn't spreading his cheeks in a welcoming manner......

I swear some of you people read somewhere lasers were OP because someone got salty, and here we are......

[Leon Ward]

At that time the ERLL had a duration of 1.5 seconds and no one used the weapon anymore! It's just sad what PGI is currently planning !!!
I really hope that nothing comes from this bad balancing live because that means the end for me!

SPL builds, PPC-GAUSS builds, Lazerbuilds ...... none of this is more practical on the clan side. What is left? LRM, ATM and LBX10-20 builds!

Oh, I'm too frustrated to get more upset. The new Battletech mods are great and so I do not have to give up my favorite Sifi universe completely.

Just Facepalm !!!!!!

[MiZia]

Well tbh on stats side the clan erml already is balanced compared to its IS counterpart.
I truly dont get it how people r so fixed by dmg numbers w/o looking all other stats.
Dmg +40%? ye but also Heat +40%
10% more range? .5 secs more cd (+12%)
IS dps 5.55, clan 5.6 due to 1.25 burntime (+38%).

While i feel that 40% is a bit too much on advantage on damage side i also think that if its reduced to 6 the other stats should be revised accordingly expecially burntime.

[MovinTarget]

Hey guys new bad idea, but easy to understand and implement:

In an unprecedented council made up of clan Khans abd IS leaders, the recognition for the need to preserve resource and keep heroic pilots alive longer was manifest in the unprecedented adoption of the "muppet measure". This is a military convention adopted by all parties where mystical black box governors were placed in all mechs, preventing them from inflicting more than 50 damage at any one time...

Boom problem solved!

/sarcasm

[MechTech Dragoon]

https://mwomercs.com...-new-equipment/

A take on the issue, that doesn't involve either option of reducing damage, or making our lasers finish their fire long after wev'e died of old age. But if your gna choose an option...the first one is probably a hell of allot better.

[Tarogato]

HammerMaster, on 26 July 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Convergence detractors BE DAMNED.
Take your self to the gun range. Rifle or pistol doesn't matter.
Go on an off day so it's clear for you to experiment.
Set up a 25 meter target.
Here is your task:
Set up prone and supported. Fire 3 sets of 3 shots. Note hits.
New target. Standing and unsupported. Same as above.
New target. Walking towards target. Same as above.
New target. Running towards target. Same as above.
New target. SPRINTING towards target (analog to maximum throttle). Same as above.
Please post your your results. (Real life will Trump your e-peen)
If you have not done this in real life, you will not truly appreciate and understand convergence.

I find it incredibly amusing that you just demonstrated a complete lack of understanding as to what convergence is.

You described movement inaccuracy. Take a gun to a range, and run like a lunatic at the target and try to hit it - that will be difficult because you are moving, because you are not steady. Convergence is a non-factor in this scenario because your aiming sight and the barrel of the gun have very similar perspectives.

An example of convergence while using your gun range comparison, would be if you mounted your sight on the end of an attachment that extends 40cm from the left side of your gun. Now your sight and the barrel of your gun have two significantly different perspectives/viewpoints, and when you adjust your sight/scope to hit the target at 30m, you will fail to hit the target at 15m, because you set the convergence between your sight and barrel at 30m.

[Trennbull]

I am only going to write this once.

To solve all the problems with Clan High Alphas there is a very simple solution - also no need to nerf the Clan-Gauss ...


LIMIT THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF HEATSINKS A CLAN MECH CAN TAKE TO A REASONABLE LIMIT AND LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE UNTOUCHED.

[MovinTarget]

Trennbull, on 27 July 2018 - 04:30 AM, said:

I am only going to write this once.

To solve all the problems with Clan High Alphas there is a very simple solution - also no need to nerf the Clan-Gauss ...


LIMIT THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF HEATSINKS A CLAN MECH CAN TAKE TO A REASONABLE LIMIT AND LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE UNTOUCHED.

Since when has simple been an option????

[Tarogato]

MiZia, on 27 July 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

Well tbh on stats side the clan erml already is balanced compared to its IS counterpart.
I truly dont get it how people r so fixed by dmg numbers w/o looking all other stats.
Dmg +40%? ye but also Heat +40%
10% more range? .5 secs more cd (+12%)
IS dps 5.55, clan 5.6 due to 1.25 burntime (+38%).

While i feel that 40% is a bit too much on advantage on damage side i also think that if its reduced to 6 the other stats should be revised accordingly expecially burntime.

You don't assess imbalances in the game by looking at stats and spreadsheets. You assess by playing the game. My experience playing the taught has taught me that cERML > IS ERML.

You only use the stats/spreadsheets when it comes time to decide exactly how to fix the issues you've discovered while playing the game.

[G 4 R R E T]

Stupid question: Was there any statement as to when exactly on friday the PTS would go live? Friday is more than half over here. An while we are at it: How long wil this PTS stay online?

Sorry if it was stated earlier, i did not see it right now, maybe it is just me being blind again.