280 replies to this topic

[ApexSun]

Felbombling, on 26 July 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

Energy Mechs are point and click win-bots. Something has to be done to bring them in line with other chassis.

You mean like dual heavy gauss which is I am sure is responsible for far more one shot kills than ANY high alpha build by far? Perhaps you have never played one.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Oh how im glad I stopped playing clans long ago.

[MovinTarget]

Oh lord are we really going full TT in a RTS???

[Kerch1253]

I just don't like any part of this. Lasers are fine, Armor quirks are fine. The reasoning behind nerfing clan gauss is the most nonsensical argument for a nerf I've ever seen.

Please abandon this folly.

[SFC174]

Felbombling, on 26 July 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

Energy Mechs are point and click win-bots. Something has to be done to bring them in line with other chassis.

Umm, no. But now I know who Chris is listening to when it comes to feedback....

Sorry bud, but energy boating mechs are niche builds that are easily countered. They only work in supporting roles with large groups. Try doing a 1v1 in your favorite Clan lasvomit build vs. a similar weight IS ballistic/SRM/etc. mech.

Yes, it sucks when a player who can hold his aim puts 70 pts into your side torso while you stand still skylining on a ridge, or another player puts 80+ into your CT when you charge around a corner into a firing line. But lasvomit isn't the problem there.....

[ApexSun]

SFC174, on 26 July 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Umm, no. But now I know who Chris is listening to when it comes to feedback....

Sorry bud, but energy boating mechs are niche builds that are easily countered. They only work in supporting roles with large groups. Try doing a 1v1 in your favorite Clan lasvomit build vs. a similar weight IS ballistic/SRM/etc. mech.

Yes, it sucks when a player who can hold his aim puts 70 pts into your side torso while you stand still skylining on a ridge, or another player puts 80+ into your CT when you charge around a corner into a firing line. But lasvomit isn't the problem there.....

Right, how surprised was I when I took my Virago into Solaris and got roflstomped by a lowly SHC-MI? Or how easily I have seen an unorganized group of HA clan builds rolled by a 12 man of Roughnecks?

[Cypherdrene]

It wouldn't be so horrible to add some blooming to the reticle... buuuuut lasers have no recoil, so the reticle would have to be affected by some other forces such as speed, terrain and sway of the mech. Now if this is the case, Ballistics weaponry would suffer a huge nerf if the speed of AC's doesn't increase, it is literally impossible to land every shot on a moving target.

[justcallme A S H]

Bloom, Table Top...

Well this thread has taken an... Interesting... Turn. Next it'll be mix-tech that'll save the day.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 July 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[Timberjac]

Personally, these changes lack sense and usefulness.
Lasers of the clans to do less or have their statistics worsened, is already a joke. When currently, for purposes of making them playable on certain characteristics are worse of their peers of the inner sphere
Mostly much of the inner sphere mech, have bonus of shielding the mech of clan can only dream. If outside their PPC does little, 66% of the final damage that should do, which precludes the necessity of the capacitators so that the inner sphere will try to match the capacity of these (if the PPC dan pena in general, the clans are on another level When even the inner sphere who a few years ago have discovered the existence of the ER, even have more speed.
That, if we don't talk about the cannons, that clan are his striped orbital shells have the punching power that if access nominally less developed from the inner sphere.
If they will reduce the capabilities of lasers of the clans, apart from reducing much of all additives of shielding in the other mech, it would expect a substantial improvement in the PPC and of course, Dela beaten by projectile cannons CA and Ultra. (To say nothing of the RAC
All this is not to assess, that mostly, the mech of clan pay their best features, worsening les arcs of rotation of your torso, among other things.
You want to reduce the preponderance of lasers, is easy to include new types of armor as the reflective, which, by itself, will reduce the impact of these energy weapons.

Personally, best to stay with the current damage profiles.

[Vorpal Puppy]

The C-MPL duration nerf is absolutely ridiculous. It a pulse laser not an ER laser. I will take IS MPL specs over this.

[Tarl Cabot]

Anastasius Foht, on 25 July 2018 - 10:34 PM, said:

Bye, Bushie and Sliphnhir

Why? The quirks are not being removed, simply reduced and they still benefit more from the skill tree than a non-quirked mech. Be glad they have not castrated the offensive power. Look at how that affected the Black Knight, long before the new Skill tree and resizing. When PGI performed their blotched surgery on it they canned not only the defensive quirks but the offensive quirks, then hit it a few more times after that. Of course they didnt drop it on its head until AFTER it had become available for C-Bills.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 July 2018 - 04:23 PM.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

What's the spiff for doing this?

Cuz seriously, I have no interest going in and waiting even longer for a PTS match than a regular match, and taking the game play seriously instead of just using it as a sandbox mode to test mechs I don't own, unless I'm getting spiffed.

And something good too please. Pick-a-color, pick-a-warhorn, a mech bay… Make it something good, and I'll go in there and try things out in a constructive way and come back and write a review, just like I did last time. .

But no spiff, no PTS.

[SaltiestRaccoon]

Better than the first PTS changes which were WAY overkill.

The issue here is that you're still moving towards nerf instead of rebalance, which was your stated goal. You're lowering damage to stop 94 damage alphas which you perceived as a problem (They're definitely not. A sustainable 80 is better on any mech that can run that build.)

Higher beam duration doesn't do much in the context of what we're talking about here. The issue was potatoes not twisting the high alphas in the first place. If they weren't twisting before, a high beam duration won't make them do so. Lower damage should mean lower beam duration and heat, especially given the cooldown advantage of Inner Sphere counterparts (amazing base duration and cooldown stats which are further bolstered by quirks) Fair is fair. You don't want high alphas, but your changes do little to address them.

If you HAVE to use these stats as a baseline for a change, then reign back in the nerfs on ERLL and Medium Pulse. Your nerfs to medium pulse make it a very poor option. Likewise ERLL was already a weak weapon for Clans, and almost no one used it. There's not much cause for a nerf. Aim more for something like you did with ERSL across the board, a slight decrease in damage for a slight decrease in cooldown. The DPS of that weapon was only given a .1 debuff, and that's great. You want to kill high alphas, not kill Clan lasers (You don't need to. TTK in this game is already way too high, but that's your stated goal.)

If these changes go live, I will certainly move away from boating lasers, but if I wanted to stay competitive, I would also have to switch to Inner Sphere. Your nerfs there aren't nearly sweeping enough to make up for the poor weapons that Clans have. Yes, they're lighter. After this nerf, they'll also be much worse... which would be fine since you can carry more, unfortunately Inner Sphere mechs also have access to massively powerful quirks to further buff their weapons and maneuverability, so the only reason to play Clan at that point is better XL engines. That's not a very appealing proposition. Maybe give me a HAG 40 and we can talk.

As a diehard Clan player I would HAPPILY sacrifice the extra tonnage to pick up many, many, many Inner Sphere weapons just for their superior shot patterns, beam duration, cooldowns and ghost heat penalties, and that's a sign that things are probably balanced already, so you want to aim for sidegrade, not nerf. I don't think such a thing is needed, but apparently this game is mostly populated with whiny Inner Sphere players under the mistaken idea that longer TTK means more skill outside the context of a 1v1 scenario. As I've stated before and will state again here, Clan players boat lasers, because it's one of the few things Clans do well. Take that away and there's little reason to play Clan.

You've really painted yourself into a corner because of the lack of reticle bloom. It's forced the game into a state where you have to assume every shot will hit CT when considering balance and as a result, in order to find balance it now feels like all weapons fire wet noodles.

Edited by SaltiestRaccoon, 26 July 2018 - 04:53 PM.

[MavadoG]

Leave Gauss alone please!!! If you must nerf clan lasers (which is disappointing, 'cause that's one of the main reasons to play a clan over an IS) then I can see why, compared to IS lasers... but changing Gauss is too far. If you take away the fun of a dual gauss loadout AND better lasers then whats left?! Answer: Just a bunch of IS mechs with different names fighting eachother.....

[Felbombling]

Ensaine, on 26 July 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

STOP this.. like right away.

If you stand there like a moomah, and take a full laser discharge to the face, then you deserve to die. Period.

ApexSun, on 26 July 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

You mean like dual heavy gauss which is I am sure is responsible for far more one shot kills than ANY high alpha build by far? Perhaps you have never played one.

SFC174, on 26 July 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Umm, no. But now I know who Chris is listening to when it comes to feedback....

Sorry bud, but energy boating mechs are niche builds that are easily countered. They only work in supporting roles with large groups. Try doing a 1v1 in your favorite Clan lasvomit build vs. a similar weight IS ballistic/SRM/etc. mech.

Yes, it sucks when a player who can hold his aim puts 70 pts into your side torso while you stand still skylining on a ridge, or another player puts 80+ into your CT when you charge around a corner into a firing line. But lasvomit isn't the problem there.....

To sum up... I don't agree with Felbombling, so he must... 1. Play like a moomah. 2. Never played or faced a dual Heavy Gauss Rifle build. 3. Play like a tool and take those negative experiences to formulate an opinion.

=====================

Well, thank you for your estimation of my abilities. Is it ok if I say that my opinion is generated by my own experiences playing Mechs like the Hunchback 4P or the Hellbringer? I find them to be overpowered and simple to play. Perhaps I'm running into a bunch of moomahs, though, so my opinion must be skewed.

[El Bandito]

I called for IS durability quirk nerf, in conjunction with Clan laser nerf. Feels good to be right. Still, those laser needs are all over the place, and mostly not to my liking.

[Commander James Raynor]

This "rework" should just be scrapped. The changes are uncalled for and poorly thought, but I'll elaborate in some of them.

1) The wording is pretty disingenuous, like saying there is an "increase" in the CERML damage from 5.25 to 6.25, when it's a nerf from 7 to 6.25. I know it's an increase from the previous uber nerfs, but let's not lose perspective that these are huge nerfs all around.

2) The duration changes are just absurd. I think that all of these proposed changes are wrong and aim to leave the clans with no recourse, but the duration nerfs are especially ridiculous.

3) If PGI gets their way and implement what they have, they'll leave the clans with a worse MPL than the IS. Right now, the DPS is exactly the same; add to that the better IS skill tree and quirks and you have that the MPL has more DPS than the CMPL in the end. The clans already have difficulty brawling, and now you're just crippling them. Are we supposed to bring micro pulse lasers if we want to brawl? LITERALLY NO ONE ASKED FOR A CMPL NERF!

4) In the end, they're stepping back on most of the damage nerfs, leaving the supposed problematic clan alpha unaddressed. This is owed to the fact that the high alphas were never the problem. High alpha builds are costly in terms of heat and duration and can't do much against someone who gets close. The high alpha was just an excuse to keep nerfing the clans. They need all these excuses because they got resistance from the players after the 12th nerf in a row (because everyone can see they are unnecessary), just like they used the engine desync excuse to kill the TBR and KDK and apply an indirect one sided nerf. PGI should maybe wonder why they keep getting this resistance and why the most used mechs in Solaris are always IS in every division. NO MORE CLAN NERFS ARE REQUIRED!

5) I agree that the mentioned IS mechs are just too tanky, but do you see how 3 of the 4 are too powerful because they can carry double Heavy Gauss? I doubt they haven't noticed that, so I wonder why they don't just nerf the most powerful weapon in the game instead of trying to reduce its effectiveness by nerfing the mechs that carry it.

Edited by Commander James Raynor, 26 July 2018 - 05:44 PM.

[Smutty]

justcallme A S H, on 26 July 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Bloom, Table Top...

Well this thread has taken an... Interesting... Turn. Next it'll be mix-tech that'll save the day.

Don't lie, you'd like to see it for shats and gaggles

cLB80 Annihilator is enough to make a man weep with joy

[Dee Eight]

ApexSun, on 26 July 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

I PAID REAL MONEY for the Bushwhacker Standard Pack. I PAID REAL MONEY for the Fafnir Standard Pack. I PAID REAL MONEY

I paid far too much real money in 2 1/2 years to a game company that constantly screws over the things I paid money for, to sell new things, and to turn great mechs into garage queens. Its no wonder people LRM boat Kodiak Spirit bears when the engine desync fiasco basically turned a great SRM brawler into a pile of cold molasses. The great kodiak nerfing is also why so many mech packs that came after, sold so poorly in comparison to how frenzied people were buying before. Piss off the people spending money enough and they go to another game instead. From Kodiak thru the javelin I bought EVERY mech pack, usually with the reinforcements, hero and often collector's edition. After the general lackluster enjoyment of the Clan Heroes I only bought a few of the resistance heroes, didn't buy the lanner, hellfire, incubus, vulcan or solaris heroes at all. Didn't bother with the full civil war packs (avoided the nightstar, nova cat and uziel...wish i hadn't got the osiris), and also only got basic packs for the piranha, flea, fafnir and blood asp. I am NOT going to buy the champion. Why bother... they're just gonna make it terrible in a year somehow...for the sake of "balance". I have more than enough mechs already which I never use anymore because they've been nerfed into non-relevance. Why do I need to buy more ?

PS... heavy large laser.... why is it so hard to just implement TT values ? 18 heat for 16 damage. The advantage to the things is supposed to be 1 crit space for a 16 damage weapon and the disadvantage is therefore the heat of firing it. Yes of course three C-ERMLs would do more damage for less heat and tonnage, but they'd also take up three times the space. For that matter....why not just TT value the ER larges as well... they're supposed to be getting their range from increased heat costs... they're not supposed to get a damage boost above the heat level as well.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 July 2018 - 07:01 PM.

[Dran Dragore]

@

Commander James Raynor, on 26 July 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

This "rework" should just be scrapped. The changes are uncalled for and poorly thought, but I'll elaborate in some of them.

1) The wording is pretty disingenuous, like saying there is an "increase" in the CERML damage from 5.25 to 6.25, when it's a nerf from 7 to 6.25. I know it's an increase from the previous uber nerfs, but let's not lose perspective that these are huge nerfs all around.
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i total agree with you in every point. PGI is scraping the clans with this, and with the clans then Faction Play. Again: The clans get even more boring. There is no much left who "works". Meanwhile the IS got so much nice weapon systems they can choose from. Where are the HAGs??! Why are the ATMs such a crap?