226 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Mystere, on 25 September 2018 - 09:08 PM, said:

How many of the great commanders in history were front-line fighters?

Most of them, it's only in the 20th century they started hiding at the back.

[L1f3H4ck]

Absolute ignorant nonsense. Piloting and strategic thinking are two different skillsets. I've seen numerous great dropcallers who won the match for their team while doing poorly individually and also excelent pilots who have no idea how and where to lead a unit. Maybe some ppl should stop being elitists and start being team players.

[JC Daxion]

Jables McBarty, on 26 September 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

That made for some good reading

"While the circumstances are different, the broader idea is the same: game developers didn’t spoon-feed a handful of players exactly what they wanted to hear, and now that their precious faberge skin has been cracked, they want blood."

Can't say I've ever witnessed such a phenomenon in the game communities where I play...

yea, no kidding.. Added the game to my wishlist just because! (and it could be a game i might enjoy, but you know, so many games so little time) The article reminded me of the folks that play crusader kings II, and complain they have to many daughters. Or the patch/update that you can get events that let you have a female marshal and that crowd came out in force for a short time. News flash, there have been women rulers/leaders dating back to the Navatians. Historically there have been many great female warriors and leaders of some of the worlds most powerful empires. Theodora of Byzantine or Cleopatra of Egypt are just the tip of the ice-bergs.

It also was very similar to what happend to Battletech launched and it triggered a bunch of people to review bomb it because it had a third gender option, aka male, female, they.. (even though I have yet to find a single place that it even effected the game even in speech, but perhaps it does somewhere) There was also a huge ruckus that there weren't enough blonds.. People buy the game, just to review bomb it and return it.

Mass effect Andromeda got the same thing for daring to make a Hispanic lead.. Though you can easily use the create your own character and make them look how ever you want. . Should i dare tell them that the voice actor for so many of those same peoples favorite squadmate, Ashley from ME 1-3 is actually African american? She did a great job too, though tali was my fav. .

Edited by JC Daxion, 26 September 2018 - 11:01 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Old Terra Therma back when I was in a big unit, and actually gave a damn.

L33T playah : Form a firing line here

Team : Shuffles about near his mech

L33T : no not there noobs here F.F.S

Voice from team : where the F&*% is here .

L33T : more bad language The H line ..

Team Shuffles to H line .

L33T not that F$%^& place

etc etc until other team ROFStomp .


Ah yes the glories of being lead by a comp standard player..

[Dragonporn]

Lykaon, on 26 September 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

So here's the thing about HPG basement. There will be 4 limited lanes of fire that all need to be covered in the event the enemy team attempts the breach from any spot. Failing to cover your entry points invites an unopposed flank attack.

But,you can not avoid having any one of the four entry points insufficently defended to prevent a concerted effort to breach it. Your limited lane of fire combined with your lead mechs becoming increasingly heat burdened means the level of precise coordination needed to manuver force to the right location is heavily dependent on pretty much each and every single defending player's judgment. And well let's be honest,that's not going to work. You are far more likely to have blocked fire lanes,mechs failing to rotate to share armor on the front and shut down mechs being cover for the enemy approach.

However,taking the top of HPG has advantages. The central placement allows for rapid reaction to any point of threat,Provides excellent cover (LRM immunity) and unlike the basement there are 4 limited points of approach for the enemy but unlimited points for retreat for your teammates.

Because of the open sky and lack of walls you can react to an enemy breach attempt with more flexability (deployed UAVs for clear intel is a must) Once the enemy masses to one of the ramps you can defend the top with a couple of mechs (that can fall back and off the top if the top is over whelmed) while your primary force drops off a side and hit a flank HARD. (Classic hammer and anvil strat)

This will most likely result in the enemy rotating away from the attack point on the flank and abandon the attempt to take the top. Depending on the outcome of the initial flank you can either push your advantage and momentum (if that occured) and pursue along the base of the HPG "hill" with your top force laying down supression fire to limit the enemy mech's fire lanes by keeping them pressed tight against the center mass. or retake the top. The vast majority of the time it is the later that occurs and you can trigger a full route from holding the top and utilizing a very basic hammer and anvil attack.

What you talking about is most likely how it works in CW or GQ, but it doesn't work like that even remotely in QP. Whole second part of your post highlights pretty deep and thorough understanding of situation by your teammates, which NEVER-EVER happens in QP. When people on the top get shot from different positions, and nobody provides cover, because when you take the top, you need to keep formation. So everyone panics and drops on sides to avoid more damage from different angles. Such thing as formation is absolutely irrelevant and impossible thing to create in any QP match. To be clear, not because players are bad, but because of non-existent communication. It is impossible to explain it over com, team should do it in auto-mode, which any pre-made will without saying a word. It would just take too freaking long to explain to each individual pilot where he must stand and what he must do.

Now on tactics. Covering entrances in the basement is non-issue, because I always managed to scout approach even when I was in freaking Assault. It doesn't really take much to just announce which entrances enemy is going through, and whole team reacts rather quickly. Generally, understanding where enemy is coming from is easy enough, you don't need to do anything special for it. With particular lack of communication, enemy team can never dream of attempting coordinated push with right formations from 4 different entrances. It just doesn't happen, plus you have all the time in the world to react and rotate whole team to the main points of approach. As I previously said, enemy team will be coming uncoordinated and spread damage all over the place, but your team will naturally shoot first mech that makes the step inside. Focus fire is everything in this game, and that's the big advantage on defenders side.

Blocked fire lanes and heat isn't an issue exclusive to defender side, because while enemy coming down, they have only one lane of fire from each point of entry, and most likely only one mech will be able to reliably fire at the given moment. It also very common to see that first mechs that lead the push inside, eat several alphas and either die or stall, creating jam for the whole enemy team to get inside sooner. You won't believe how many friendly fire it creates on regular basis. Also when few first mechs die on approach instantly, others behind them usually waver, and this also creates more opportunities for defenders.

Being down there gives you immunity not only to LRMs, but also to any long ranged sniper fire, which is often to be found when team goes top. Few shots of PPC/ERLL/AC/Gauss from wall snipers into someones back might kill it real quick. Not possible in the basement. UAV isn't also exclusive to ones holding the top. In fact, it is much easier to deploy UAV and having it on for whole duration, while UAVs set by pilots holding top will be shot down almost instantly by enemies in the outer circles.

Thing is, what I'm talking about, and what have I experienced with different tactics on HPG, is that basement one requires the least coordination and team situational awareness of all others, where you can successfully call without lengthy explanations, and it works. I think team refuses to go basement happens in two occasions:
1. There are too many lurmboats or long range pokers, who either know they are useless in close combat, or just chicken at the the thought. I can understand that LRM'eres would definitely be useless down there, but when I know for a fact that any sniper build can brawl very well. Hell, I do often go for brawl in my Black Lanner with dual ER-PPCs, and it works.
2. Team has stereotypical mindset about basement, because somebody said it's bad, and they rather race to the top like drones, with no coordination whatsoever, cannot cover each other, panic, drop down and scatter across the field to be picked off one by one. This is such a sad display...

But sometimes, yes, defenders in the basement fail, simply because enemy team was fighting better, more bravely, had better brawlers. But it still beats mindless race to the top into nascar, which happens in 100% of matches in HPG with no tactics and thinking.

[Natred]

LOL Just had a match in quickplay duo q where we had a guy try to call the match and only did 15 damage. Interesting

[Eirik Eriksson]

As few dropcallers there are in the game right now, all everyone wanted was a thread like this.

[Kubernetes]

Starling76, on 26 September 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Absolute ignorant nonsense. Piloting and strategic thinking are two different skillsets. I've seen numerous great dropcallers who won the match for their team while doing poorly individually and also excelent pilots who have no idea how and where to lead a unit. Maybe some ppl should stop being elitists and start being team players.

On the other hand, someone capable of dropcalling likely has good map awareness and feel for the game, which means it's unlikely that he's a potato.

Good players aren't good simply because they're fast-twitch mouse control gods, they understand the game top to bottom, including things like maps, positioning, and mech lab. Not every good player is a good drop caller, but most good drop callers are good players.

[Bombast]

Natred, on 26 September 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

LOL Just had a match in quickplay duo q where we had a guy try to call the match and only did 15 damage. Interesting

But oh man, I bet he had all sorts of TAG and NARC assists!

[Eirik Eriksson]

Bombast, on 26 September 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

But oh man, I bet he had all sorts of TAG and NARC assists!

Sounds more like they left him to die alone, should have happened to any dropcallers out there.

[Asym]

JediPanther, on 26 September 2018 - 06:08 AM, said:

The best commanders are the ones that ocd twitch switch between lance and company commander on the drop pred screen then give a single order...'move here' then when the actual shooting starts do nothing else with it. Good times those.

You should try this for real !! Three tactical freqs. Three platoons. At least one Artillery freq. At least one CAS freq. and then the digital data.......all at the same time and then, all plans fail on contact....and, the noise and chaos......

And, you guessed it......guess where ye old CO ends ups..........smack dab where those plans failed. As a very famous German general said: "Leaders and heavy weapon forward.....the era of watching a battle from the rear is long since over..."

Now you know why I'd never call a match in a game.......I didn't train the team I'm commanding....

[Dee Eight]

Natred, on 26 September 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

LOL Just had a match in quickplay duo q where we had a guy try to call the match and only did 15 damage. Interesting

did he have a name nine characters long ? when told to be quiet did he go on a swear-a-thon and call you one of the iphone generation ?

[Composite Armour]

Clear comms.

[SFC174]

Dago Red, on 25 September 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

Yes but does that Captain have to be one of the best combatants on the field in order to understand how to effectively organize their own people?

No, but they better be able to at least pull their weight. If they're doing 200 dmg in an assault they're probably not the guy to be calling unit tactics.

I can do ok calling targets, calling open components and directing support, but only when I'm dead. My bandwidth when I'm alive and shooting is sufficiently occupied that usually the best I can do is call out the location of an enemy push or a target focus. Man's got to know his limitations.

[Ssamout]

SFC174, on 26 September 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

No, but they better be able to at least pull their weight. If they're doing 200 dmg in an assault they're probably not the guy to be calling unit tactics.

I can do ok calling targets, calling open components and directing support, but only when I'm dead. My bandwidth when I'm alive and shooting is sufficiently occupied that usually the best I can do is call out the location of an enemy push or a target focus. Man's got to know his limitations.

I got that bandwidth problem too..

Best dropcallers in this game are also very good players on their own. You dont want to drop with a man down in the start, no matter how sweet his/her voice is. It takes a really special individual who can properly do both at the same time.
But to do really well, you need also a team that gives clear information about enemy movements, mech/weapon information and how trades have gone, so that dc can make proper decisions when and where to push.

[Aramuside]

Bombast, on 26 September 2018 - 04:20 AM, said:

You can't pad the stats people talk about with Solaris. Solaris stats are a separate deal, and most everyone knows they're useless.



The same thing happened when events required non-trivial objective completions. People would just load up some SRM vomit mech, rush, die, and then go drop into another match to do the same, because it was often quicker to fish for lucky matches when you got your damage in early than it was to stick around and have an actually good match.

They're not separate though...

Starling76, on 26 September 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Absolute ignorant nonsense. Piloting and strategic thinking are two different skillsets. I've seen numerous great dropcallers who won the match for their team while doing poorly individually and also excelent pilots who have no idea how and where to lead a unit. Maybe some ppl should stop being elitists and start being team players.

So absolutely true.

Ssamout, on 26 September 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

I got that bandwidth problem too..

Best dropcallers in this game are also very good players on their own. You dont want to drop with a man down in the start, no matter how sweet his/her voice is. It takes a really special individual who can properly do both at the same time.
But to do really well, you need also a team that gives clear information about enemy movements, mech/weapon information and how trades have gone, so that dc can make proper decisions when and where to push.

Except a lot of very good players in solo queue never say a word in solo queue so there isn't necessarily a correlation at all.

[Aramuside]

Going to post the example of a match where we were at a huge disadvantage from the start but the calling was critical. My last match today before anyone thinks I'm cherry picking but this one is fresh in my mind. Started at a huge disadvantage which you can immediately work out. However this is a huge kudos to my team shout out not a call out.

We had 2 scout callers one who spotted their main move and another their main flank. We also had two target callers - myself and one other whose name I didn't catch. We were calling targets/ tactical adjustments/armour rotating and our team followed them like a machine. Even though the battle started at short range (3-400m) barely a single one of them made it to our lines despite outnumbering and out tonning (?) us heavily.

Its games like that in the solo queue we should be aiming for rather than listening to silly players complaining when people call. What they choose to ignore is that no one is born a caller, you have to learn it. Yes it doesn't always work but its mostly a huge advantage so give the caller some slack and put your team first ... or just complain incessantly and know you're sounding really silly.



Coincidentally thanks to the person who at the start said we didn't need the 2 deliberate DC's... you were so right.

[Ssamout]

Aramuside, on 27 September 2018 - 02:34 AM, said:

Except a lot of very good players in solo queue never say a word in solo queue so there isn't necessarily a correlation at all.

Did I say that very good players are good drop commanders? Where does that read? FFS.

After a few years it comes apparent that the only way to drop in solo queue and not to lose ones mind is to play it like its 1vs12. Of course there are a lot of matches where you actually have a decent team and people would follow orders, but most of time that is not the case. Pug herding/wrangling/whispering are known terms and only a select few have stomach for it.
The average player is so bad.

If you want to hear good drop commanding, its better to find a group to drop with that has one, but those are rare unicorns these days. Out side of comp teams, you can sometimes run into them in FP,, but in QP solo queue - good luck.

Edited by Ssamout, 27 September 2018 - 04:03 AM.

[Bombast]

Aramuside, on 27 September 2018 - 02:34 AM, said:

They're not separate though...

Yes they are.

[Escef]

So, Operator is saying everyone is bad except for him... Again...