125 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Battle Etiquette?

This some new care bear, politically correct term pilots want to use now to cast blame?

Here is proper battle etiquette, I'm there to kill you as violently as possible if you are my enemy. If you happen to be on my team and are some pansy coward, I have no remorse in putting an AC20 slug in your face to put you out of my and my team's misery.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

[Lykaon]

Ren Grey, on 21 October 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

It was a QP match on manifold.

Fair play since in most quick play solo queue matches most team work is forced team work.

I would not count an any degree of etiquette beyond the very basics of not deliberately trying to kill me and team mates actually trying to win the watch.

I would not count on any complexities such as deliberately rotating weakened mechs to second line while fresher mechs take the vanguard. If you need this to happen you are pretty much stuck with the most expediant option being exactally what you describe.

[Novakaine]

Kubernetes, on 22 October 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

No, armor sharing is a valid tactic to maintain your team's firepower. If you're open CT I have no issue if you cycle back behind me. I'd much rather you stay alive and keep shooting than die for no gain. The guys you're criticizing are just selfish players.

Those are the only ones I'm referring too.
And yes it's not only a valid tactic, but a smart one.
Unless you're one of those snipy lurmy guys.....or girls

Edited by Novakaine, 22 October 2018 - 03:11 PM.

[Bongo TauKat]

Being from a pirate affiliation I'll take and give armor to help my mates win. No shame in good tactics.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Eisenhorne, on 22 October 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

Or who whine about legging in solaris.

Solaris legging is so booooring though.

Duels are much more fun when people don't just target legs. You can defend torsos with twisting, but there's very little you can do to defend against legging.

And to tie it into the setting, a Solaris match is supposed to be an exciting spectator sport. Nonstop kneecapping would get very old to watch very soon. Intentional legging would be discouraged by the Solaris organizers for this reason.

[HammerMaster]

No one is obligated to give up to your superior skills. You are obligated to take the kill with your skill.

[Ren Grey]

#36 - True but I am talking about sub 50%. Honestly I doubt he checked or cared and you are probably right on his thinking. I just don't do it ever so it is a different way of looking at things, hence the inquiry. It is as simple as that. Just yay or nay but please read all the details. I feel it differs from the typical armor sharing tactic.

#37 – So blah, blah, blah….must be salty? Hmmm, didn’t I mention that very problem? I don't post a lot for the very reason I mentioned and you then confirmed. Seriously, read threads, they generally go nowhere with very little if any insightful input. Just blowhards that rarely are even on point and aren't helping, instead probably pursuing another stat, posts. I knew this would go the same way but was curious enough that I figured I would just wade through the BS. I provided details because they are important to the point which is: is there a difference between meat shielding for stats and tactical armor sharing? If so, where is the line? It's sad that people can't appreciate that not everyone is focused on kills for their own personal gain. I was trying to kill him as a mechanic of the game knowing full well that I may die myself. I would have liked for our team to win but I don't care about adding another notch on my belt. Maybe I am not competitive enough to see it but what exactly is the point of that, do I get a gold star? I looked up his stats as a means of guessing how aware he was of the situation when making the call to behave that way. If he were in the 50^th percentile I would have ignored it all together. By stats I would be considered worse than him and yet I knew: his condition, his teammate’s condition that at the time there were 3 of us and 6 of them, that there were other mechs approaching after finishing my teammates, etc. You know, basic stuff. It all went down in a matter of a few seconds but data collection can be done in the blink of an eye.

#38 - Thank you for an on point reply, I genuinely appreciate it. Off topic, I play with you often. About a week or two ago there was a pilot of a Firestarter and we wolf packed together in the next match, following one where he jokingly called out for my death. He has a short pilot name, like three or four letters but it escapes me at the moment. I want to say it starts with a C or a G. You two talked as if you knew each other. If you know whom I am talking about, are you friends? He was sounding really down and I haven’t seen him playing lately, kind of concerning. On the point, I do appreciate that it happens but am just inquiring if it is good sportsmanship. Sure, particularly in QP it is just a mess and you can’t expect much but I would still hope for something beyond grossly selfish behavior. I don’t think something has to be enforceable to be considered wrong. By comparison, there are all kinds of things that are considered wrong in real life that aren’t enforced by law yet we abide by them to be kind and for the sake of a working society.

#40 – Fantasy because I am inquiring about something? I am merely asking if it is good sportsmanship. I haven’t really seen much in the way of supporting it. A lot of I do it and it happens but not a lot of why, outside of the other person may have been worthless or trying to stay alive. Neither of which are acceptable reasons. As an example, you have two wounded soldiers in a fox hole. Is it ok for one to decide the other should stand in front of him to take shots so he can live? Hell no it isn’t. If you think so, you are seriously F’d in the head. You can however say, well this is a game but that opens another door because yeah, it is just a game. Why care so much about game stats that you don’t care about doing something potentially harmful to a teammate. What am I missing here, what is the motivation? You aren’t getting paid. Yes, it is fantasy to expect random people to not be aholes, I fully get that.

#41 – Very selfish way of thinking. I won’t remember your name but I would certainly avoid relying on you for anything. I would also imagine that extends into real life.

#42 – Useless. You could at least try and be more creative.

#43 – I get what you are saying but I am not really inquiring about what to expect, rather what is considered good sportsmanship. I know expecting unselfish behavior is unrealistic. So is your vote fair play based on the fact it happens or that you believe it is a perfectly acceptable and unselfish thing to do?

#45 – Yeah, that would fall under tactical armor sharing. I think this differs.

#46 – Off topic but totally agree.

#47 - True but a little too vague to be on point.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 04:42 PM.

[cougurt]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 October 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

Solaris legging is so booooring though.

Duels are much more fun when people don't just target legs. You can defend torsos with twisting, but there's very little you can do to defend against legging.

And to tie it into the setting, a Solaris match is supposed to be an exciting spectator sport. Nonstop kneecapping would get very old to watch very soon. Intentional legging would be discouraged by the Solaris organizers for this reason.

i just don't see it as an issue. most of the time i don't even bother legging since it generally takes longer than going for CT. shielding your legs isn't something that comes up very often in other modes, so i actually kind of enjoy that aspect of it.

[Piney II]

Being used as a meat shield?

Get used to it.........and don't feel bad about using other players as meat shields.

That's how PUGs are played.......everyone for themselves.

[Ren Grey]

Piney II, on 22 October 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

Being used as a meat shield?

Get used to it.........and don't feel bad about using other players as meat shields.

That's how PUGs are played.......everyone for themselves.

#50 - Thanks for the input. I don't play slow movers often so I don't really have much experience as the shield side of things.

This pretty much nails it: "don't feel bad about using other players as meat shields."

I will still probably avoid using teammates as much as possible but I want to know, should I find myself in that situation, is it wrong. Not does it happen, but is it ok to do. It is not like it wasn't some obvious possibility as a tactic, I just felt like I would be screwing someone over if I did it myself.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 04:51 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

For someone who claims to be miffed ON BEHALF of someone else on the opposing team, you're taking comments that disagree with you AWFUL personally.

Is there something you're not telling us? Like for example, how you're upset because your cheeky oppponent ran behind a teammate instead of having the good grace to die. And when you chased him down to get what you feel is yours, you got jumped on by three opponents and died yourself?

Your behavior makes that scenario more and more likely.

[Vxheous]

Wil McCullough, on 22 October 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

For someone who claims to be miffed ON BEHALF of someone else on the opposing team, you're taking comments that disagree with you AWFUL personally.

Is there something you're not telling us? Like for example, how you're upset because your cheeky oppponent ran behind a teammate instead of having the good grace to die. And when you chased him down to get what you feel is yours, you got jumped on by three opponents and died yourself?

Your behavior makes that scenario more and more likely.

HEY!!!! The OP has made it very clear that opinion is NOT welcomed in this thread and does not contribute to the conversation. Stop padding your posts stats with such drivel!! /s

[Kubernetes]

"#36 - True but I am talking about sub 50%. Honestly I doubt he checked or cared and you are probably right on his thinking. I just don't do it ever so it is a different way of looking at things, hence the inquiry. It is as simple as that. Just yay or nay but please read all the details. I feel it differs from the typical armor sharing tactic."

In your OP you don't even mention the damage state of the heavy-- you just deride the cowardice of the medium pilot.

I think you're over thinking it. People getting cored out rapidly aren't coldly running through the numbers and the potential outcomes, they're literally in fight-or-flight mode. This guy, surprisingly, made the right move. Most guys just die trying to get in one... last... alpha.

[Ren Grey]

#52 & #53 - Are you dense? I clearly mention worthwhile comments. What I take personally is rude aholes that don't offer assistance, instead resistance. I bet if there was a pro X thread and a anti X thread people like you would have apposing posts in both. It is pretty clear what my motives are if you read and can comprehend. Other people are getting it, why aren't you?

#54 - Thanks for the input. I added some more detail a little later on to help paint a better picture. I see what you are saying. The only reason I thought different was because I was aware of what I was doing and imagined that he would as well, considering he as at least as good of a player. You could very well be right that he was just in fight or flight mode. I am not so much trying to condemn his actions as understand them because while I more than likely will avoid using that tactic myself, who knows if I will find myself in it at a later date, intentional or otherwise and I want to know if it is considered good or bad by others. Based on team play rather than personal gain. I try to play in a fashion that is helpful to my team and the last thing I want to do is take actions that are just the opposite.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 05:07 PM.

[TechChris]

My Oh my......

First off I believe your talking about ccf, only one I "know" who regularly plays a FS9. As for knowing him....kinda. Where not friends persay that have ever talked outside a match or played a group together or something. Basically just a long time ago he was "hassling" me in match for the bad luck he has when we in match together, I took it in good humor, and just kinda became a running joke tween us. So we say "hi" when we see each other, he complains about his bad luck, I joke about him being my "good luck" charm, n we intentionally try to get the kill on each other if we on opposite sides....... That kinda thing. As to him being gone...... Meh.... He's disappeared many times. He undoubtedly gets burnt out, runs outta patience, has better things to do just like rest us.

Past that..... Making a real world comparison is fine n dandy, but doesn't change that this is a game in a virtual world where everyone gets anonymity. I'm of the belief that if the tactics works and others can use it, I've no gripe using it as well when needed. It's a death match game, ya do what ya need to live n win, no point in "handicapping" yaself or "brining a knife to a gun fight". I can believe in all the etiquette in the world, won't stop the other mech from shooting you in the face so I sure as hell ain't gonna hesitate. As I said earlier, it's not some civil 1on1 duel, it's not even 12 VS 12. It's 1 plus 11 meatshields/distractions you hope have good aim versus 12. Now don't get me wrong, outta force of habit I try to play nice, like I've no problem laying cover fire when a friendly is trying to retreat or other such things that won't likely result in my immediate death....but the counter to that is being nice also usually gets ya killed quicker. Like slowing down to help cover the fatty lagging behind the deathball 99 outta 100 times just means you get to die with em (can't tell ya how long it took to break myself of that habit when I first started playing, n hell I still do it rarely to this day n curse myself for it Everytime.)

Either way, it's a game in a virtual world where everyone gets anonymity so accountability and etiquette past what is hard enforced by the game is just wishful thinking, my personal opinion is give up the silly idea n move on man.

[Shifty McSwift]

Etiquette in MWO amounts to "how do I best use these 11 meatshields without making it obvious?", and tends to be why I start a night out fighting normally and slowly becoming more toxic as I watch people do the most cowardly and stupid things imaginable, as though they came to this pvp game expecting to never get shot while getting all the kills.

[Wil McCullough]

Ren Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 05:06 PM, said:

#52 & #53 - Are you dense? I clearly mention worthwhile comments. What I take personally is rude aholes that don't offer assistance, instead resistance. I bet if there was a pro X thread and a anti X thread people like you would have apposing posts in both. It is pretty clear what my motives are if you read and can comprehend. Other people are getting it, why aren't you?

I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier and wrote a pretty neutral response. But after seeing your responses to others, i stopped doing that.

You're not looking for an answer to your question. 3 pages of "no"s would have been sufficient if that were the case. You're actually looking for agreeing voices. That's why you're still making "yes, but" replies.

So yes, i can read. I'm just not buying what you're selling.

Edit: funny how your entire premise is based on you scrutinizing another player's intentions but now when yours come under scrutiny, you're not happy about it. Word of advice: don't dish out what you can't take.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 22 October 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[Ren Grey]

#56 - Yep, that is the guy and funny, that is pretty much how my interactions with him were. It seems it may just be his personality then.

Thanks for more thoughtful input. That is exactly what it is for me, the struggle to break habits because you want to be nice. I don't want to do it because I want to be nice but if it doesn't really bother anyone, I may consider it. I am trying to find the acceptable balance between morals and tactics. I don't want to go full dark side but at least some dark side seems to be par for the course and does have benefits. I mean I know on a purely tactical front, at least as it pertains to his own survival, he did the right thing.

#57 - LOL, yeah I feel you on that one. It certainly can grate on you over the course of a session. I play the game to relieve stress and it only ever seems to work for a few matches and then starts to do the opposite. Particularly during events when it is all you can do to avoid being trampled if there is any enemy showing red in your vicinity.

#58 - Sorry, still missing it. There has been a number of posts that were helpful, most of which were in support of doing that kind of thing, aka apposing my thoughts. There was also a lot of stuff that wasn't on point so I don't count them. The "yes, but" replies are a mechanic of a discussion. You know, point counter point. The key there being the point. If someone is trying to get a general consensus, they are wanting a lot of input.

Aside from the aforementioned helpful posts, it is 3 pages of mostly BS and my responses to said BS. Your epiphany is also a miss. I said read and comprehend, not just read. I frankly don't give two shites if you are "buying what I am selling". You aren't contributing anything useful so please move on.

Edited by Ren Grey, 22 October 2018 - 09:27 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Ren Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

#58 - Sorry, still missing it. There has been a number of posts that were helpful, most of which were in support of doing that kind of thing, aka apposing my thoughts. There was also a lot of stuff that wasn't on point so I don't count them. The "yes, but" replies are a mechanic of a discussion. You know, point counter point. The key there being point.

Aside from the aforementioned helpful posts, it is 3 pages of mostly BS and my responses to said BS. Your epiphany is also a miss. I said read and comprehend, not just read. I frankly don't give two shites if you are "buying what I am selling". You aren't contributing anything useful so please move on.

No, i will not allow you to shift the goal posts. You opened by soliciting opinions on whether a certain behavior was acceptable. Popular opinion is that it is. Now despite getting your answer, you're switching stances to why it shouldn't be acceptable. You had a narrative to tell and questioned a player's intentions as to why he did it, attempting to paint him aa a bad guy. Now i'm questioning your own intentions and you find it unacceptable. Kinda hypocritical.

You're "bestowing" responses and declaring whether an opinion is "worthy" or "bs" based on tone of voice. That's the only bs i'm seeing here.

You wanted to know if the "victims" (your choice of word, not mine. see how obvious the story you're trying to sell is?) are ok with it? The responses here overwhelmingly say "yes". You're obviously not happy with that response. Because it was never about the "victims" was it? It was about you being denied a kill you felt entitled to (actually, your entire conduct on this topic screams "entitlement" btw) and you think such denial shouldn't happen again.

Next time, don't spin some weak-*** social justice narrative involving victims and aggressors to cover your intentions.