125 replies to this topic

[- World Eater -]

A+ thread, would read again.

[Ren Grey]

#75 - No, you can see very clearly that I thank and agree with the points of many people supporting that behavior. I made snarky comments almost exclusively to those whom themselves made snarky comments.


#76 - Are you kidding? I say it is a mechanic of the game in that very comment. Then you try to tell me the very same thing like you are educating me. LOL. The only people that would give too craps about whether or not they get a kill are those whom give a crap about their stats. Since you keep insisting that must be my agenda because you can't grasp the actual point, it must be you whom thinks in such a way that a kill would be so important to want to start a thread about it. Kind of like, how the dude that gives someone the most crap about something is actually hiding that very something about themselves. Run a poll if you want. See how many people care that much about a kill or stats? You will undoubtedly find that not everyone shares your way of thinking.

I already said that I also haven't made up my mind just like one comment ago. I am interested in changing my mind, as I have said before. Again, if you would read, you would see where I discuss it a number of times with people offering opposing views. Sure, I will still feel a bit off about it but as I know it can be a good tactic, I may very well use it. No one has said they would outwardly hate it so that is good.

You do realize that with the people whom actually get it, this is going exactly as it should. You discuss things back and forth and from that is born education. I feel educated by some good posts that shed some light on the thinking behind it.


#78 - Dude, people ask what color to paint there mechs in here. I have seen those go on for pages. Sure it is just a game but it is a game that is played with other people. I personally care about how I interact with them. Maybe I am just not jaded enough yet from yes, the obvious issues that a PUG subjects us to but I am not ready to joing the ranks of full on aholes.


#80 - It is not a win or lose situation, I am sorry you can't comprehend that. It is asking for opinions. If you felt I didn't greet yours with the proper respect it was because either A. you didn't read and thus were off topic or B. are a ****. I have gotten plenty of good information from other people. I feel good about it.

Edited by Ren Grey, 23 October 2018 - 03:43 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Ren Grey, on 23 October 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

Are you kidding? I say it is a mechanic of the game in that very comment. Then you try to tell me the very same thing like you are educating me. LOL. The only people that wouls give too craps about whether or not they get a kill are those whom give a crap about their stats. Since you keep insisting that must be my agenda because you can't grasp the actual point, it must be you whom thinks in such a way that a kill would be so important to want to start a thread about it. I am running out of ways to dumb this down for you. Kind of like, how the dude that gives someone the most crap about something is actually hiding that very something about themselves.

why would you solicit opinions and demand "relevant information" to make "informed decisions" about something you don't care about? you felt entitled to that kill, didn't get it and died instead. you felt strongly enough about how upsetting that was to take to the forums for a sympathetic ear. you didn't get that either so you're now pitching the same fit because once again you didn't get something you felt entitled to.

Quote

I already said that I also haven't made up my mind just like one comment ago. I am interested in changing my mind, as I have said before. Again, if you would read, you would see where I discuss it a number of times with people offering opposing views. Sure, I will still feel a bit off about it but as I know it can be a good tactic, I may very well use it. No one has said they would outwardly hate it so that is good.

you didn't "discuss" anything. you're "discussing" the same way we are "discussing" your intentions - you repeat your point, i repeat mine and we slip in some jabs while doing so.

you're not even listening to the people you say you're "discussing" the behavior with. you've made up your mind that the pilot pulled you over to his ally knowing that his ally was already beaten up. you've twisted their words to mean "it's a valid tactic to make a half-dead ally your meat shield knowingly". the pilot may not have tried to sacrifice his teammate for his personal benefit. he may have just been panicking. he may just have thought they had a better chance if they had twice as many guns pointing your way than you have pointing at them. they might have communicated on voip and agreed to do that.

once again, i want to point out how you question his intentions but get pissy when someone else questions yours.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 23 October 2018 - 04:05 PM.

[Throe]

[delete by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Ren Grey]

#83 - Are you really asking why I would want answers that relate to the question?

Again, that is your way of thinking. I get denied kills all the time, I forfeit kills all the time. I die all the time, sometimes for ridiculous reasons, sometimes because someone is just plain better than me in which case I often tip my hat to them. If I thought like you want me to think, why wouldn't I have dozens of threads about them?

How do I not care? Again, I have thanked many people for their input.

You are still hung up on the first post which I already explained was to paint the picture. Were you there? No, so I need to describe it. If I am going to say hey, choose between A or B, it is going to be helpful if I tell you the difference. In retrospect, I guess I could have used a general example instead of a specific one but it was that specific one that got me thinking about it.

I no where suggest that is what people are telling me. What has been said is that A. It is not honorable but is a good tactic, B. It is a good tactic and most people do it so why not me and C. I simply don't care, they are probably potatoes anyway.

I already agreed, that it may have just been panicking. You are hung up on the idea that I am trying to drive home that, that particular dude was a jerk. I am more interested in the behavior. I am asking about the specific actions because they seemed different than standard practice. I have of course seen people hide behind teammates but they usually poke around them to get shots in, etc. not just throw a blanket over their head and hope the boogieman goes away. It seemed wrong at the time, so I asked for other people to share their view. If it was just panicking, that is perfectly fine. Some people maintain calm in threatening situations, others don't and I wouldn't fault them for that. Again, it just seemed intentional at the time. I could be wrong. Whatever his intentions, what I am asking is if I were to intentionally do it, how would you feel about it. A number of people have understood that and answered it.

[Wil McCullough]

Who cares if you thank people for their input. You're not even considering what they say or doing mental gymnastics to convince yourself they're in agreement with you. No one in this thread has said that it was "dishonorable" other than dragonporn who followed up by saying the pilot may not even have been aware of how badly damaged his ally was. Don't put words in other people's mouths.

You were not painting a picture either. You were pushing a narrative. You got into a duel with an enemy, you were winning, he broke contact and retreated behind a friendly. That's what happened. All your embellishment about "distasteful" behavior and "throwing a blanket over their head hoping the boogeyman goes away" is you and you alone.

The guy beat you and moved on. His teammate shielded him, whether by choice or not and moved on. You're the only one hung up enough about it to make a forum post and spend 5 pages arguing about it.

I can already see what's going to happen next:

1. Mods kick this thread to k-town
2. You disappear for a week, purposely leading enemies to damaged teammates in-game because the only takeways you got from this thread is i) wil is a douche and ii) it's ok to wilfully lead enemies to a damaged ally trying to keep his guns on the field
3. You get flamed in-game and come back to the forums and make a new thread to "solicit opinions" again
4. Thread contains lots of "woe is me", "but why", "you guys said" bs

Am i right? Prove me wrong.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Ren Grey, on 21 October 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

This is not so much about my opinion, though I will offer it, rather my interest in the general opinion as I am open to the possibility of this being acceptable if the "victims" are typically ok with it.

Were you in VOIP with both these other players? If not, how do you know they didn't co-ordinate the whole event to lure you into an uneven fight?

WRT helping injured teammates, I used to always do that. However, after too many occasions where I rushed to help someone who couldn't even press "R" to at least give an idea of how many enemies they were facing, I ended up just feeding the enemy another easy kill. Instead, I should have joined the rest of my team to hopefully drive a win. Some people need to learn how to help themselves first and foremost.

[Cedien Kerensky]

Had to skip most of the fluffy ********. All I wanna know is did you get a double kill or are you still a spud?

[TWIAFU]

Ren Grey, on 22 October 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

#41 – Very selfish way of thinking. I won’t remember your name but I would certainly avoid relying on you for anything. I would also imagine that extends into real life.

Yep, selfish of me to want to kill my enemies and to expect my team/side to do the same.

Why would you rely on anyone? Your opposed to to someone relying on his/her team for support when they are close to being cored out and having them step up to take some hits.

I'm glad you won't rely on me as it is clear your not a team player and now everyone knows not to rely on you for squat.

And finally, you do not know me IRL. You have no idea what I do in RL but want to assume things about me. You know what you can do with that comment? I would be glad to explain in excruciating detail and your safety blanket safe place won't help you.

[Kubernetes]

>>I already said that I also haven't made up my mind just like one comment ago. I am interested in changing my mind

Wtf are you talking about, "made up my mind"? About what? Whether you think your opponent made a valid move? A wise move? An honorable one? Why tf is this important to you? Are you writing a book on MWO etiquette?

Regarding changing your mind... are ya really interested? Bulls**t. What would it take, thousands of us weighing in to tell you you're upset over nothing? Has anyone here agreed with you? This is conversation that should have taken three posts:
1) Was this guy wrong?
2) No.
3) OK, thanks.

Instead it's 5 damn pages of your nonsense. FFS!

[Throe]

[delete by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 03:24 PM.

[Khobai]

Vellron2005, on 22 October 2018 - 12:36 AM, said:

I find stat padding a cowardly, uncool practice.

hiding behind a teammate so you dont die isnt really stat padding though. thats just playing smart.

stat padding is when you stack all your top ace 1% buddies together on the same team and crush everyone else because you know group queue has no matchmaker and youll win the vast majority of your matches and pad your stats. thats a despicable practice that PGI needs to put a stop to.

but hiding behind a teammate to stay alive is not stat padding. theres no abuse of the system going on there. thats just good practice, since keeping an extra mech alive, even a badly damaged one, can sometimes decide games.

Edited by Khobai, 24 October 2018 - 11:29 AM.

[Gen Lee]

Khobai, on 24 October 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

hiding behind a teammate so you dont die isnt really stat padding though. thats just playing smart.

stat padding is when you stack all your top ace 1% buddies together on the same team and crush everyone else because you know group queue has no matchmaker and youll win the vast majority of your matches and pad your stats. thats a despicable practice that PGI needs to put a stop to.

but hiding behind a teammate to stay alive is not stat padding. theres no abuse of the system going on there. thats just good practice, since keeping an extra mech alive, even a badly damaged one, can sometimes decide games.

Wait, who says the best players in the game shouldn't be allowed to play together? There's no rule against the best players beating other people. In fact, I would say that eventually, on a long enough timeline, the better players will group together for better gaming experiences. Making rules to punish the best of the best, or limit their game in ways others are not subjected to, would be a very bad idea indeed. Who would decide how good is too good? Where would you draw the line? No, the devs have enough to screw up as it is without introducing punishments for actually being good at the game.

[Eisenhorne]

Gen Lee, on 24 October 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Wait, who says the best players in the game shouldn't be allowed to play together? There's no rule against the best players beating other people. In fact, I would say that eventually, on a long enough timeline, the better players will group together for better gaming experiences. Making rules to punish the best of the best, or limit their game in ways others are not subjected to, would be a very bad idea indeed. Who would decide how good is too good? Where would you draw the line? No, the devs have enough to screw up as it is without introducing punishments for actually being good at the game.

Khobai just has an axe to grind against people who are good at the game who don't like to play with spuds on their team, thats all.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 24 October 2018 - 12:09 PM.

[Dead Tom Kerensky]

The so called victim who got hid behind can see whats happening. Its not like your target teleports behind him. If the victim didn't want to get shot he would be standing behind cover. Your question is bad the way you phrase it is manipulative, its called falling back to your teammate and anyone including you would do the same. The fact that you are still defending this is pretty terrible.

[PurplePuke]

I don't have a problem with it. When a game is nearing the end, and things are close, you do whatever you can to keep your weapons and damage in the game. It's the only way you can help your team.

I've done it before, and I've had lighter mechs than the one I'm piloting use me for cover when they need to.

You also can't assume the player in question was trying to protect his stats. I've used heavier teammates for momentary cover before and I don't care about stats.

Short version: If the player in question was able to stay alive, and deal some more damage that he wouldn't otherwise have dealt, then it was a smart, tactical move.

[MischiefSC]

Hold on a second. Are you saying.... someone dared to refuse your batchal?

There's a meme for that.

Both you and the other guy should be playing to win for your team. Nobody should feel like they're required to stay and die just because they lost a trade. I would be angry at a teammate who did that. They're reducing my odds to win the match for nothing.

Do your best, if you're chewed try to get into cover. The only time you should burn yourself is if it's serving a strategic advantage - like your team NACARed and you're trying to tie up a lot of mechs while your team rolls the rest or something similar. Generally though the expectation is that you'll keep alive to keep doing damage and if someone wants to dance on your corpse they need to earn it.

[Asylum Choir]

arcana75, on 22 October 2018 - 03:56 AM, said:

@Ren Grey, you opened with

Yet from your responses it seems like you were expecting people to support your views, and now are getting upset that opinions are contrary to yours.

He's upset Ithink because he can't understand the callous disregard others have for fairplay. From what I got the player used another player as bait so he could live a bit longer, which by any definition of sportsmanship is deplorable.
The fact that this selfish style of pay is considered "normal" is simply disgusting, as is anyone who espouses it.

However, the point of the post is questionable at best. what he was trying to achieve with it is beyond me. Modern gamers don't give a monkey's about fair play, or sportsmanship.

[MischiefSC]

However getting in to cover IS fair play. I think we've established that by doing this the guy survived and his team won, so it absolutely is good sportsmanship and fair play - because he's accountable to his teammates to do his best for them and to fight the other team to the best of his ability.

Good sportsmanship is your best effort. A good example of good sportsmanship is in Solaris if someone discos the other guy waits. That's a system failure.

In a match however the expectation is that you're going to fight to win. Not cheat, not abuse, not exploit, but best effort. That's not rules of queensbury.

Again, as an example, in this instance the guy moving I to cover helped his team win. How is that NOT good sportsmanship and fair play? Is cover a hack or exploit?

[Asylum Choir]

If the other guy is as banged up as him, and he uses that guy as cover so he can live a bit longer-potentially sacrificing the other guy for his personal gain, no that's not good sportsmanship.
Well at least not by the definition of my school education, and every other adult that taught me about it growing up.

Sportsmanship as i was taught by my schooling and parents/family is the HOW you conduct yourself during your sport.
In this particular case, the guy doing what he did is shockingly poor going by what I was taught.
Now, the fact he picked an unfair fight to start with, expecting to beast the op and then getting outplayed and running...that's something else entirely. but him using a fellow friendly as a human shield, that wasn't fresh.....well.....
If people think that that's ok..I despair..the playerbase in this game is very,very timid to start with maybe this type of thinking is why...

Now as I said before, why the op even bothered with this post is beyond me as modern gamers don't care. Winning is everything. You mention fairplay and you get scoffed at, like it's a mental illness or something.