162 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Grus, on 07 January 2019 - 06:04 AM, said:

I have a evga 750w gold psu ordered. That way I can at least use the video card I bought until I can buy a CPU and mobo.

An EVGA superNOVA right? Different EVGA lines are manufactured by different companies, the superNOVA line is built by Super Flower, which is a really good company, some of the others aren't as good.

[Grus]

Vxheous, on 07 January 2019 - 07:01 AM, said:

An EVGA superNOVA right? Different EVGA lines are manufactured by different companies, the superNOVA line is built by Super Flower, which is a really good company, some of the others aren't as good.

Yep

[Ghogiel]

NRP, on 31 December 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

If I remember correctly, this version of CryEngine is not multithreaded,

no

[MrVaad]

NRP, on 31 December 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

If I remember correctly, this version of CryEngine is not multithreaded, so the game performance is limited by the CPU's single threaded performance. So how many cores a CPU has doesn't really matter. The CPU architecture and clock speed matter more for this game.

Please, stop spreading this nonsense

1. The cryengine has always been multithreaded. This one uses mainly 4-5 cores and creates 10s of threads (across all cores)
2. In total, MWO starts more than 75 threads (and probably 30 are from the cryengine)
3. Seeing low fps when CPU and GPU are not at 100% does not *always* mean you are cpu limited.
4. This game has some problems with assets/effects in some maps (too many drawcalls), shader activation, sounds, physics saturation, etc. But it's not a multithread engine problem.

Edited by MrVaad, 09 January 2019 - 04:25 AM.

[Galaxie 500]

If only a game client update dropped your FPS like that, you don't need to replace your computer, just go through the full, long version of doing a complete video driver cleanout and fresh driver install. And if your latest driver version still is no good after that, do the process again but with an earlier driver version that you know worked well.

[NRP]

MrVaad, on 09 January 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:

Please, stop spreading this nonsense

1. The cryengine has always been multithreaded. This one uses mainly 4-5 cores and creates 10s of threads (across all cores)
2. In total, MWO starts more than 75 threads (and probably 30 are from the cryengine)
3. Seeing low fps when CPU and GPU are not at 100% does not *always* mean you are cpu limited.
4. This game has some problems with assets/effects in some maps (too many drawcalls), shader activation, sounds, physics saturation, etc. But it's not a multithread engine problem.

I was specifically referring to CryEngine's renderer not being multithreaded. Specifically, the renderer is "draw call limited", which is almost entirely a CPU bottleneck (CPU can't feed the GPU fast enough). This is a common limitation in many game engine renderers.

DX12 offers some options for renderers to better exploit multiple core CPUs (and I think even have the GPU do some draw call setup), but as far as I am aware MWO doesn't use these new DX features. As a result, the CPU becomes the primary bottleneck for getting higher FPS.

Edited by NRP, 09 January 2019 - 07:46 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

So the AMD presentation was over... oh boy the things are really looking bad.


The whole presentation is for investors as I suspected, except AMD managed to do even worse than my relatively low expectation. Once again AMD is betting for yet another wrong bet on their future (clould gaming) which will probably bite them really hard. At least they didn't (more like could not afford to) spend too much on VR.

Actually, even investors don't think it was a good presentation, seeing how AMD stock responded.


Well Grus, good news is that if you build PC right now, your setup will probably last for a while.

For CPU, I do see Ryzen 1500X is actually 150 dollars right now, which is a bit better than Ryzen 2200G. Slightly better turbo clocks and extra 8 threads do make difference. Of course 2200G has integrated graphic, but you already have a graphic card.

Then you get the motherboard... probably B450 chipset.

Or go 1600X which does bring some more clocks, but they are a bit out of your budget.

[Y E O N N E]

The stock drop was likely due to the fact that AMD didn't release Navi, but instead a consumer-oriented, Vega-based MI50 video card to compete with the RTX series, and they are releasing for the same price as the competition with less features and an uncertain level of performance.

The CPU side of things, though, is quite rosy. Can't say the same for Intel, TBQH.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 09 January 2019 - 06:47 PM.

[FuzzyLog1c]

MrVaad, on 09 January 2019 - 01:57 AM, said:

Please, stop spreading this nonsense

1. The cryengine has always been multithreaded. This one uses mainly 4-5 cores and creates 10s of threads (across all cores)
2. In total, MWO starts more than 75 threads (and probably 30 are from the cryengine)
3. Seeing low fps when CPU and GPU are not at 100% does not *always* mean you are cpu limited.
4. This game has some problems with assets/effects in some maps (too many drawcalls), shader activation, sounds, physics saturation, etc. But it's not a multithread engine problem.

Correct. CryEngine is well-optimized. PGI in their ignorance changed the default CryEngine job system to run all the heavy threads (i.e. main, physics, streaming, and particles) on just 2 cores. If you're getting massive framerate drops when you move, but good framerate standing still, try this for a 6+ core hyperthreaded CPU:

r_MultiThreaded = 1
sys_job_system_enable = 1
sys_job_system_max_worker = 6
e_AutoPrecacheCgfMaxTasks = 6
r_ShadersAsyncMaxThreads = 6
e_ParticlesThread = 6
e_StatObjMergeUseThread = 5
sys_limit_phys_thread_count = 0
sys_main_CPU = 8
sys_physics_CPU = 4
sys_streaming_CPU = 5
ca_thread = 1
ca_thread0Affinity = 12
ca_thread1Affinity = 6
sys_TaskThread0_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread1_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread2_CPU = 6
sys_TaskThread3_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread4_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread5_CPU = 8
r_WaterUpdateThread = 8
sys_streaming_CPU = 8
p_num_threads = 4
p_num_jobs = 6

For a different core counts, you'll have to do the hard work yourself to analyze and load balance.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 09 January 2019 - 07:00 PM.

[Vxheous]

FuzzyLog1c, on 09 January 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

Correct. CryEngine is well-optimized. PGI in their ignorance changed the default CryEngine job system to run all the heavy threads (i.e. main, physics, streaming, and particles) on just 2 cores. If you're getting massive framerate drops when you move, but good framerate standing still, try this for a 6+ core hyperthreaded CPU:

r_MultiThreaded = 1
sys_job_system_enable = 1
sys_job_system_max_worker = 6
e_AutoPrecacheCgfMaxTasks = 6
r_ShadersAsyncMaxThreads = 6
e_ParticlesThread = 6
e_StatObjMergeUseThread = 5
sys_limit_phys_thread_count = 0
sys_main_CPU = 8
sys_physics_CPU = 4
sys_streaming_CPU = 5
ca_thread = 1
ca_thread0Affinity = 12
ca_thread1Affinity = 6
sys_TaskThread0_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread1_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread2_CPU = 6
sys_TaskThread3_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread4_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread5_CPU = 8
r_WaterUpdateThread = 8
sys_streaming_CPU = 8
p_num_threads = 4
p_num_jobs = 6

For a different core counts, you'll have to do the hard work yourself to analyze and load balance.

I'm curious, what do you set it if you only have 4 core 4 thread (I don't get frame drops, but just to mess around)

Edited by Vxheous, 09 January 2019 - 07:06 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

Y E O N N E, on 09 January 2019 - 06:46 PM, said:

The stock drop was likely due to the fact that AMD didn't release Navi, but instead a consumer-oriented, Vega-based MI50 video card to compete with the RTX series, and they are releasing for the same price as the competition with less features and an uncertain level of performance.

The CPU side of things, though, is quite rosy. Can't say the same for Intel, TBQH.

I would not say it is rosy though. Too close for Intel Ice Lake release later this year.

[Y E O N N E]

The Lighthouse, on 09 January 2019 - 08:00 PM, said:

I would not say it is rosy though. Too close for Intel Ice Lake release later this year.

You mean at the end of the year? Frankly, that's not worth waiting for, especially because it will be immature and unavailable at reasonable prices. Ryzen 3000 has a tighter release window than Ice Lake does and, when Ice Lake does come out, we can say the same thing about the upcoming Ryzen 4000-series parts that you are saying about Ice Lake.

Pick your entry point, and go, or you will always be waiting.

[Grus]

FuzzyLog1c, on 09 January 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

Correct. CryEngine is well-optimized. PGI in their ignorance changed the default CryEngine job system to run all the heavy threads (i.e. main, physics, streaming, and particles) on just 2 cores. If you're getting massive framerate drops when you move, but good framerate standing still, try this for a 6+ core hyperthreaded CPU:

r_MultiThreaded = 1
sys_job_system_enable = 1
sys_job_system_max_worker = 6
e_AutoPrecacheCgfMaxTasks = 6
r_ShadersAsyncMaxThreads = 6
e_ParticlesThread = 6
e_StatObjMergeUseThread = 5
sys_limit_phys_thread_count = 0
sys_main_CPU = 8
sys_physics_CPU = 4
sys_streaming_CPU = 5
ca_thread = 1
ca_thread0Affinity = 12
ca_thread1Affinity = 6
sys_TaskThread0_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread1_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread2_CPU = 6
sys_TaskThread3_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread4_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread5_CPU = 8
r_WaterUpdateThread = 8
sys_streaming_CPU = 8
p_num_threads = 4
p_num_jobs = 6

For a different core counts, you'll have to do the hard work yourself to analyze and load balance.

So for us non programmer folks... how do you input this?

[Vxheous]

Grus, on 11 January 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

So for us non programmer folks... how do you input this?

make a user.cfg file in your mechwarrior online folder, and copy/paste that in. The numbers are different though for different core/thread CPUs, that one is meant for a 6 core/12 thread CPU.

[Prototelis]

FuzzyLog1c, on 09 January 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

Correct. CryEngine is well-optimized. PGI in their ignorance changed the default CryEngine job system to run all the heavy threads (i.e. main, physics, streaming, and particles) on just 2 cores. If you're getting massive framerate drops when you move, but good framerate standing still, try this for a 6+ core hyperthreaded CPU:

r_MultiThreaded = 1
sys_job_system_enable = 1
sys_job_system_max_worker = 6
e_AutoPrecacheCgfMaxTasks = 6
r_ShadersAsyncMaxThreads = 6
e_ParticlesThread = 6
e_StatObjMergeUseThread = 5
sys_limit_phys_thread_count = 0
sys_main_CPU = 8
sys_physics_CPU = 4
sys_streaming_CPU = 5
ca_thread = 1
ca_thread0Affinity = 12
ca_thread1Affinity = 6
sys_TaskThread0_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread1_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread2_CPU = 6
sys_TaskThread3_CPU = 10
sys_TaskThread4_CPU = 2
sys_TaskThread5_CPU = 8
r_WaterUpdateThread = 8
sys_streaming_CPU = 8
p_num_threads = 4
p_num_jobs = 6

For a different core counts, you'll have to do the hard work yourself to analyze and load balance.

Think that config would that cfg be good for an I7 990X?

I don't think anything is going to help the fact I'm still on a GTX480 and only have 8gb of ram.

[Vxheous]

Prototelis, on 11 January 2019 - 06:19 PM, said:

Think that config would that cfg be good for an I7 990X?

I don't think anything is going to help the fact I'm still on a GTX480 and only have 8gb of ram.

yeah, that should work for the i7 990X, but not sure how much more it'll help you (can't hurt). If it gives you worse performance, you can always just delete it.

Edited by Vxheous, 11 January 2019 - 06:21 PM.

[NRP]

I'm looking at upgrading to an i7-9700k system. Maybe. Probably.

[Stinger554]

NRP, on 11 January 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm looking at upgrading to an i7-9700k system. Maybe. Probably.

I'd wait for the 3rd gen Ryzens to come out before deciding to upgrade CPUs at the moment cause those are looking pretty good. They are supposed to come out mid-2019 according to AMD.

Edited by Stinger554, 11 January 2019 - 10:25 PM.

[Peter2k]

NRP, on 11 January 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

I'm looking at upgrading to an i7-9700k system. Maybe. Probably.

If you want something right now, its a good choice.

Waiting for something newer means waiting till summer for AMD or end of year for Intel.
So that is some time still.

You're not going to regret getting a 9700K, gonna be good for MWO/MW5 and games like Cyberpunk 2077. Or any game really.
8 cores, 8 threads is nothing to sneeze at, got high base and boost clocks.
All good.

Just do buy RAM with 3000/3200 speed, just the speed where you don't have to spent too much money on for an upgrade in speed (like 3000 is like 15 bucks more then 2133 or so)

BTW, its fun to use all core enhancement on Z boards, as that feature boosts all cores to max turbo, not just 1 or 2.

[Grus]

Vxheous, on 11 January 2019 - 06:05 PM, said:

make a user.cfg file in your mechwarrior online folder, and copy/paste that in. The numbers are different though for different core/thread CPUs, that one is meant for a 6 core/12 thread CPU.

Ah ok, I have 6 cores but don't know how many threads it has.. but I'll give it a shot, I mean I was running sub 20fps last night anyways.