63 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

I not complaining about the mech itself, I rather like it. This post is to ask why the methodology established since the first rescaling is so poorly followed here.

I am concerned that the knowledge and guidelines established for volumetric scaling were not followed. Either there are no clear written procedures or previous modelers have left or were stolen for MW5. Either way the results are inconsistent.

I don't see where the ten extra tons is supposed to fit. The lump on the back is minor and the additional heft in the shoulder/arm pit area is matched by the large arms on the I.S. model. If density holds constant we should expect a 14% volume difference between the mechs.

Edited by Spheroid, 20 February 2019 - 11:42 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

nice.
Idk maybe it's smaller size makes up for it's lack of anything else?

wish there was a more effective way to compare, like a grid style lab

Edited by Jackal Noble, 20 February 2019 - 11:35 AM.

[Nightbird]

1. Torsos are deeper on the WHM-IIC
2. MWO doesn't do volumetric scaling with a constant density as seen here https://mwomercs.com...metric-scaling/

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah the IIC is thicker... I'm not worried about it

[Spheroid]

@Nightbird: Doesn't it seem off to you though compared to recent offerings? The Charger and Hatamoto seemed fairly well sized. Every mech released makes for a better trend line going forward.

[MechaBattler]

They screwed over so many mechs scaling up to the Atlas. Hitbox performance should have taken precedence in my opinion. Lookin at the Uziel. Would it really have hurt things to shrink those massive tires?

They made a big show of the Catapult and the Nova being smaller. But upsized a lot of lights and left them in poor condition. Most of the mediums are too damn tall too. It's not really surprising they're screwy with scaling.

Edited by MechaBattler, 20 February 2019 - 11:41 AM.

[FupDup]

MechaBattler, on 20 February 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

They screwed over so many mechs scaling up to the Atlas. Hitbox performance should have taken precedence in my opinion. Lookin at the Uziel. Would it really have hurt things to shrink those massive tires?

They made a big show of the Catapult and the Nova being smaller. But upsized a lot of lights and left them in poor condition. Most of the mediums are too damn tall too. It's not really surprising they're screwy with scaling.

They didn't just scale up to the Atlas, those also scaled up the Atlas itself.

[RickySpanish]

Better make it wider.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

the Modelling going not to a real measurment ...each artist can make parts like his own ideas with nothing Volume or mass Rules ...the Artist can say , my 3m lenght arm has the same weight and Density like a 5 m Arm by a other model ...its others constructed with more hollow Space ,or teh other has a Weapon with more weight or with less space in the other arm .

And a 10 t larger Humvee not real bigger as a old not armored Humvee.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 20 February 2019 - 12:56 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Atlas has been too big from the start.
Look at the "Skinny Atlas" from the original Smith and Tinker MW5.
THAT should have been our Atlas.
Rest is just massive mis-size history.
Lights are sized properly.
Everything else is TOO BIG.

[Acersecomic]

Quote from Sarna to ease all you "mine is too small".

The original Warhammer was designed as an assault BattleMech. However, it had been superseded by later and heavier 'Mech designs, though it remained a powerful weapons platform. The Clans wisely maintained and built on this solid frame a real assault 'Mech, the Warhammer IIC. Thanks to their technological expertise, they were able to add ten tons with the same speed and firepower and nearly double the armor of the original. The Warhammer IIC is built on an Endo Steel frame and is protected by twelve tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor. The result is a dangerous 'Mech, able to hold its own in any battle against the Inner Sphere. Also note that the armor was the primary concern when designing the IIc version rivaling even 100 ton assault 'Mechs in durability and protection .

There you go, the IIC is regular Hammer with clan flavor and more new tech and armor to add the extra weight without increasing size.
Kinda like wearing a Kevlar vest and high-tech goggles.

[BlueVisionWarrior Online]

Where's the side view comparison? Top view comparison? You're using a 2d view to prove something about a 3d measurement.

[MechaBattler]

Why would they feel compelled to make the Atlas any bigger? Everything was already too big. I don't think any people were complaining anything was too small way back then. : /

[FupDup]

MechaBattler, on 20 February 2019 - 02:21 PM, said:

Why would they feel compelled to make the Atlas any bigger? Everything was already too big. I don't think any people were complaining anything was too small way back then. : /

There were a ton of complaints about lights being too small, actually (even though those were stupid complaints).

What's funniest is that the people screaming about the ACH being too small didn't get their wish because that is one of the few lights that was completely untouched by the rescale (turns out it was actually larger than many pre-rescale lights and was the largest 30-tonner despite all of the tears).

[MechaBattler]

Meanwhile Jenners and Firestarters got reamed. I believe the Locust ended up even smaller than it already was.

[FupDup]

MechaBattler, on 20 February 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

Meanwhile Jenners and Firestarters got reamed. I believe the Locust ended up even smaller than it already was.

Yup, it did.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Its scale is the only thing going for it. I mean it came pre-nerfed from the factory in terms of its agility and mobility. Kind of crazy that an ADVANCED design of the Warhammer is substandard in every single way to the original.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Mind you, the rescale came before armor quirks. So the locust really needed all the help it could get when they did that.

[FupDup]

TheCaptainJZ, on 20 February 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

Mind you, the rescale came before armor quirks. So the locust really needed all the help it could get when they did that.

Uh, no. Quirks existed for more than a year before the rescale happened. Several mechs even got their durability quirks nerfed during the rescale (i.e. Catapult and BJ).

[Mookan]

You can't directly compare density/weight of a clan mech to an IS mech due to the differences in construction materials and tech base.

Clan tech usually has less volume but same weight due to using more dense materials. Consider double heat sinks, same weight but less bulk due to being more dense ie. same stuff compressed into a smaller package.

Taken on volume then a clan mech of greater weight will be similar size to an IS of less weight. The Warhammer range then is a good example.