218 replies to this topic

[PAQUERA]

I cant wait to play old maps in my new mecs. Now, with looting bags!!

[Fed0t]

Why IS AMS quirks are removed, but clan omnimechs ones just moved to set-of-8 quirk for most of them?
And why can't they compensate removed ones with some minor quirks from some another category?

[Churzy]

Humble Dexter, on 18 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

The way I see it, "more" LRM players will switch from direct to indirect LRM fire, as the direct LRM fire players lose their ability to use their own TAG (the most skill based equipment available in MWO) to halve the long time they have to spend staring straight at a bunch of high alpha-strike brawlers to achieve their own short lived lock (literally)...

Resulting in LRMed players surviving more LRMs then before thanks to the spread nerf and increased usage of indirect LRMs : That's a net reduction in LRM deaths, but a net increase in annoying "warning incoming missiles" messages.

So direct LRM players lose their huge TAG incentive to go peek (their typical peeking time requirement is almost doubled by this patch), indirect LRM players get a whole bunch of nerfs, LRMed players receive a whole lot more (indirect) LRMs...

I can't name you a single winner, everyone has a reason to complain, because everyone is losing out.

The only winner was meant to be the direct LRM player fetching his own locks, and he is in fact the biggest loser, due to the self-TAG bonus removal that also "removes" the main incentive he had to dare go take a bunch of long peeks himself...

To encourage LRM players to go take those long peeks, making it easier for brawlers to happily obliterate them in ~2 instant pinpoint alpha-strikes to the torso, that direct self-TAGing bonus for a LRM player should have been kept or even increased (if only for himself), instead of being completely removed from him...

Example : TAGing your own target could provide an instant LRM lock, but only for yourself, only for your LRMs, and only for as long as you can keep that target TAGed yourself (or until it is finally locked). I mean why else do you think a smart player would ever want to repeatedly go stare down down a bunch of brawlers with his LRMs ?

Self-TAG still lets you target and lock into ECM-protected enemies at long ranges, which is a big deal (precisely, if you want to avoid those mean brawlers getting close). And at closer ranges, it negates the ECM penalty to targetting time, so it helps you get faster locks as well. At least, until they get too close and place you in a low signal state!

I guess the problem is that we're using TAG and NARC the wrong way (for personal benefit, rather than team support) but to be fair, that's to be expected in QP.

[Rex Gordan]

Btw, the front page Patch Notes thumbnail reads "Patch Notes Feb 19" instead of Mar 19.

Edited by Rex Gordan, 18 March 2019 - 09:20 AM.

[Spheroid]

@Humble Dexter: I don't know the last time you objectively tested TAG under controlled conditions was but any bonus is minimal or imperceptible on a human scale. This was not always the case. I feel perhaps some element of lock on time was broken when they reverted the cone of lock mechanics a while back. Your rage regarding the proposed TAG change seems unjustified given how it functions currently.

Edited by Spheroid, 18 March 2019 - 12:06 PM.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

You're right the previous 50% TAG acceleration bonus has already been reduced to an unnoticeable level, which explains why finishing to completely remove it is being so poorly compensated by this patch.

I retract my negative comments : This patch does what it states.

[Captain Caveman DE]

totally NOT going into L-word-territory:

what are the chances of getting a refund for my Whammi IIC?
it was barely in the 'meh' category before this patch, and now it not only keeps its railroad-track like agility, but gets barn-door-dimensions.

first time I think of a refund, so I'm really curious.

that being said: I haven't bought into MW5, and I'll think at least twice about the next mechpack I consider. your balancing your game like darth vader is the force - by killing players/customers left and right.

[Ninjah]

After playing a certain fast and polished AAA battle royale game for a month I came back to play a few MWO matches and honestly... it feels like a torture. Sorry, I'm just being honest. Slow AF navigation, horrible aiming, LRM spam, ******** teams, outdated, ugly graphics that fail to work as intended on a modern Freesync monitor with Vega56... All of that in 2019. Why is this game even alive? Nostalgia? Rightt... MWO will never get any new players and I can see the old ones are bickering about +-0.5 values like it's the end of the world. OMG! Bye. See ya in a few months for a few nostalgia matches if it doesn't go down in the meantime.

[Dee Eight]

Chris Lowrey, on 17 March 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Dumbfired LRMs will always count as a "Direct LOS" shot. Since the target (whatever is under your cursor) is naturally within LOS.

This doesn't just count towards the lower arc. It also utilizes the tighter LOS spread as well as any Artemis spread bonus' as well. (since Artemis applies to anything within LOS.)

And thus the era of the tactic of firing lrms at the building roof edge to rain down on the guy hiding behind it ends...

[HammerMaster]

Dee Eight, on 18 March 2019 - 02:36 PM, said:

And thus the era of the tactic of firing lrms at the building roof edge to rain down on the guy hiding behind it ends...

Sorry to say we may have to lose this ill oft used tactic for more across the board usable IN LOS Fire.

[Chris Lowrey]

Humble Dexter, on 18 March 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

You're right the previous 50% TAG acceleration bonus has already been reduced to an unnoticeable level, which explains why finishing to completely remove it is being so poorly compensated by this patch.

I retract my negative comments : This patch does what it states.

So I can't speak for any time before I joined the team, but for as long as I've been here, it has never been tuned that high. For as long as I've been here, it has always been a 20% global booster. Which means that anyone who attempted to lock onto a 'Mech under the influence of a TAG laser would get a 20% reduction in lock-on time, even if they where not the one using TAG.

The patch does not change this, only shifts it. Those in direct LOS still get the 20% reduction all that changes is that it just becomes part of the base lock-on package now and does not require TAG to gain these benefits. While locking on to a target in-directly now treats the target as if he was in LOS for lock-on purposes. In both cases, its a near net zero change. The 20% you gain from TAGing a target now is just the naitive boost you get for being in LOS, while indirect TAG gets you the exact same boost with the exact same timing. So as far as compensation goes, its remaining static to where it is now.

The only thing that is changing is everything else around Lock-ons.

[HammerMaster]

Chris Lowrey, on 18 March 2019 - 02:50 PM, said:

So I can't speak for any time before I joined the team, but for as long as I've been here, it has never been tuned that high. For as long as I've been here, it has always been a 20% global booster. Which means that anyone who attempted to lock onto a 'Mech under the influence of a TAG laser would get a 20% reduction in lock-on time, even if they where not the one using TAG.

The patch does not change this, only shifts it. Those in direct LOS still get the 20% reduction all that changes is that it just becomes part of the base lock-on package now and does not require TAG to gain these benefits. While locking on to a target in-directly now treats the target as if he was in LOS for lock-on purposes. In both cases, its a near net zero change. The 20% you gain from TAGing a target now is just the naitive boost you get for being in LOS, while indirect TAG gets you the exact same boost with the exact same timing. So as far as compensation goes, its remaining static to where it is now.

The only thing that is changing is everything else around Lock-ons.

While I see what you're saying.
The Numbers pan out.
But I see it as the sit behind PARASITIC lock farmers are still waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to be in LOS and TAG the target for them.
A net DEBUFF for the people who want the control on themselves and bring these guys closer to the rest of the team WHO ARE IN THE THICK of the battle and brawling or are in a more reasonable LRM range.

Thanks for answering posts too!

Edited by HammerMaster, 18 March 2019 - 02:59 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Fed0t, on 18 March 2019 - 06:13 AM, said:

Why IS AMS quirks are removed, but clan omnimechs ones just moved to set-of-8 quirk for most of them?
And why can't they compensate removed ones with some minor quirks from some another category?

Most omni-mech owners don't run their mechs around the stock pods and set of 8 quirks. The Nova triple AMS god with its currentlystacked 30% AMS ROF quirk for example will no longer have that at all, because to do that triple AMS configuration requires mixing pods which will no longer have individual AMS quirks and they'll be no set of 8 quirks either.

Also the AMS range quirks are being removed on virtually every mech that had it, because the base AMS optimal range is increasing from 165 to 190 meters.

[HammerMaster]

Dee Eight, on 18 March 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

Most omni-mech owners don't run their mechs around the stock pods and set of 8 quirks. The Nova triple AMS god with its currentlystacked 30% AMS ROF quirk for example will no longer have that at all, because to do that triple AMS configuration requires mixing pods which will no longer have individual AMS quirks and they'll be no set of 8 quirks either.

Also the AMS range quirks are being removed on virtually every mech that had it, because the base AMS optimal range is increasing from 165 to 190 meters.

All these quirk removals is fine. If more people mounted the AMS there would be less cry.
The meta pundits keep saying they don't need it so.

[justcallme A S H]

Spheroid, on 18 March 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

@Humble Dexter: I don't know the last time you objectively tested TAG under controlled conditions was but any bonus is minimal or imperceptible on a human scale. This was not always the case. I feel perhaps some element of lock on time was broken when they reverted the cone of lock mechanics a while back. Your rage regarding the proposed TAG change seems unjustified given how it functions currently.

That's some flawed testing, well, the screenshot proves nothing actually.

Any time I use TAG, currently, the lock on time reduction is extremely noticeable.

[HammerMaster]

justcallme A S H, on 18 March 2019 - 03:57 PM, said:

That's some flawed testing, well, the screenshot proves nothing actually.

Any time I use TAG, currently, the lock on time reduction is extremely noticeable.

And do you agree removing the function puts us back in the same "parasite" situation?

[D V Devnull]

Well, I had my day in Real Life ruined so badly that I couldn't take time to go to the battlefields. Here I am again, probably for one of the last times...

---

Dee Eight, on 17 March 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

I've noticed that the people complaining the most about the LRM changes actually play the game the least.

Eh... Do you realize that you have lumped this Missile-Related Complainer in with others who play the game less, even though I'm on the battlefields quite an insane amount? And I'm reasonably certain you know that I'm out on the battlefields quite a lot, too? Maybe if you had said...

Dee Eight, on 17 March 2019 - 08:49 AM, said:

I've noticed that most of the people complaining the most about the LRM changes actually play the game the least.

...instead, then your words would be perfectly correct. But the way you have said it is NOT 100% True, sadly.

---

Aidan Crenshaw, on 17 March 2019 - 11:25 PM, said:

I find it rather amusing that those vocal folks over here can't agree whether this patch overpowers LRMs and in conclusion will finally kill the game or if it's a nerf to LRMs that will finally kill the game.

The only people which these Lock-On Missile Related Changes make it a Buff for are those who are already at the top of the proverbial Food Chain, while literally everyone else is getting Nerfed Into Oblivion permanently. What's going to happen over the next while is people quitting either because TeamWork and Lock-On Missiles were both Nerfed To Death, or Top-Tier Players complaining that Lock-On Missiles are now so OverPowered when they're the ONLY ones that can use them. Either way, MWO is going to meet a rather sad death because people wouldn't learn to use either AMS or Terrain Cover to any reasonable extent.

---

Vellron2005, on 17 March 2019 - 11:56 PM, said:

If you ask me, other than the lowered arc when LOS firing, these LRM changes feel like a big NERF..

I don't understand this obsession with turning LRMs into ATMs..

The primary role of LRMs is indirect fire, and that is being slowly, but surely, run into the ground..

Will see how LRMs feel after the patch, but let me assure you - those that used IDF primarily, will continue to do so.. and the distinction between good lurmers and bad lurmers will become greater than ever..

I expect even more salt directed at IDF lurmers.. this is sad.

That's pretty much ALL that Lock-On Missiles will be now. They'll be a bloody "Noob Trap" that is NEVER worth touching in any way. Even though PGI said they wanted to keep ALL the Weapons in the lineup usable, these Lock-On Missile Related Changes are going to drive most of the Missile Weapon Lineup into disuse forever, or at least until PGI learns what they've done wrong from their In-House Analytics providing them some Feedback on how badly they've messed up. Unfortunately, by that time, anyone with Medical Disabilities will have given up on MWO, and the Top-Tier Players will have had plenty of chance to Abuse/Exploit the changes to utter death. MWO will be set on a permanent downspiral, just as it was for Hawken a long time ago. This whole damned game has been slowly getting reduced to a less-than-viable junk heap.

Heck, here's some more of my thoughts (which almost got pointed to someone else by accident) on this insane Lock-On Missiles matter... Like, just to start, maybe if PGI had listened about PTS v2.1 better, used LRM PTS v2.1 more than they did either v1.0 or v2.0, and then taken away some of the Excess (240/Ton, really? They could have gone with only 200/Ton, and pre-prevented LRMageddon!) Missile Ammo, as well as then avoided wiping out the IDF Minimum State that those with Medical Disabilities (whom have precedence for being present, per BattleTech Lore) need, then I wouldn't have had even the inclination to get cranky about this at all. Sadly, I am personally feeling my body degrade to the point of becoming one of those who fall under being Medically Disabled, and now PGI has listened to the Anti-LRM Wackos, which in turn means that when I hit that Medically Disabled point, I've been given the middle finger and a "Get out, we don't want Medically Disabled People here!" to my own face. The earlier MechWarrior games were at least accommodating and recommendable, but MWO has fallen outside of being something I can recommend to others now as a game worth playing. There's just too many toxic folk around MWO now who are bent on degrading the game into another Hawken, "Call Of Duty", or TitanFall... and they've finally succeeded in degrading the game into only a brawlfest that needs ZERO Tactics or Strategy. Heck, they've finally found a way to NERF TeamWork to worthlessness, because only those who can handle things termed as "Trashy Twitch Shooters" are going to be able to handle this brawlfest climate. That's going to cause a massive loss of players, no question. I already see it coming now from a long way off. Any fix by PGI to repair MWO after this will be all too late, because people will have left and not come back.

---

...and now I've need of taking my leave again. This post ate ~1 Hour of time to type out. Oh sure, I could have tried to go onto the battlefields with this time, but I've learned better about that. One MUST have at least 2 Hours of time to use, or they'll just get screwed by the MatchMaker, so it wasn't worth trying to launch. Later, folks!


~Mr. D. V. "just doing what constructiveness that they could with what little time they had" Devnull

[HammerMaster]

D V Devnull, on 18 March 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

Stuff.

~Mr. D. V. "just doing what constructiveness that they could with what little time they had" Devnull

Sorry about your day buddy.

[FupDup]

HammerMaster, on 18 March 2019 - 03:08 PM, said:

All these quirk removals is fine. If more people mounted the AMS there would be less cry.
The meta pundits keep saying they don't need it so.

Actually, if literally everyone mounted AMS then missiles would have to be megabuffed up the wazoo to compensate for it or else missiles would become virtually useless. So then we'd be right back to square one.

And in that case then every mech would be forced to take AMS to deal with those super-buffed missiles, thus every build in the game would be imposed with a 1.5 ton mechlab tax.

That's the issue with trying to balance a customizable game like MWO around counters.

Edited by FupDup, 18 March 2019 - 04:49 PM.

[K19]

D V Devnull, on 18 March 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

Well, I had my day in Real Life ruined so badly that I couldn't take time to go to the battlefields. Here I am again, probably for one of the last times...

---

Eh... Do you realize that you have lumped this Missile-Related Complainer in with others who play the game less, even though I'm on the battlefields quite an insane amount? And I'm reasonably certain you know that I'm out on the battlefields quite a lot, too? Maybe if you had said...


...instead, then your words would be perfectly correct. But the way you have said it is NOT 100% True, sadly.

---

The only people which these Lock-On Missile Related Changes make it a Buff for are those who are already at the top of the proverbial Food Chain, while literally everyone else is getting Nerfed Into Oblivion permanently. What's going to happen over the next while is people quitting either because TeamWork and Lock-On Missiles were both Nerfed To Death, or Top-Tier Players complaining that Lock-On Missiles are now so OverPowered when they're the ONLY ones that can use them. Either way, MWO is going to meet a rather sad death because people wouldn't learn to use either AMS or Terrain Cover to any reasonable extent.

---

That's pretty much ALL that Lock-On Missiles will be now. They'll be a bloody "Noob Trap" that is NEVER worth touching in any way. Even though PGI said they wanted to keep ALL the Weapons in the lineup usable, these Lock-On Missile Related Changes are going to drive most of the Missile Weapon Lineup into disuse forever, or at least until PGI learns what they've done wrong from their In-House Analytics providing them some Feedback on how badly they've messed up. Unfortunately, by that time, anyone with Medical Disabilities will have given up on MWO, and the Top-Tier Players will have had plenty of chance to Abuse/Exploit the changes to utter death. MWO will be set on a permanent downspiral, just as it was for Hawken a long time ago. This whole damned game has been slowly getting reduced to a less-than-viable junk heap.

Heck, here's some more of my thoughts (which almost got pointed to someone else by accident) on this insane Lock-On Missiles matter... Like, just to start, maybe if PGI had listened about PTS v2.1 better, used LRM PTS v2.1 more than they did either v1.0 or v2.0, and then taken away some of the Excess (240/Ton, really? They could have gone with only 200/Ton, and pre-prevented LRMageddon!) Missile Ammo, as well as then avoided wiping out the IDF Minimum State that those with Medical Disabilities (whom have precedence for being present, per BattleTech Lore) need, then I wouldn't have had even the inclination to get cranky about this at all. Sadly, I am personally feeling my body degrade to the point of becoming one of those who fall under being Medically Disabled, and now PGI has listened to the Anti-LRM Wackos, which in turn means that when I hit that Medically Disabled point, I've been given the middle finger and a "Get out, we don't want Medically Disabled People here!" to my own face. The earlier MechWarrior games were at least accommodating and recommendable, but MWO has fallen outside of being something I can recommend to others now as a game worth playing. There's just too many toxic folk around MWO now who are bent on degrading the game into another Hawken, "Call Of Duty", or TitanFall... and they've finally succeeded in degrading the game into only a brawlfest that needs ZERO Tactics or Strategy. Heck, they've finally found a way to NERF TeamWork to worthlessness, because only those who can handle things termed as "Trashy Twitch Shooters" are going to be able to handle this brawlfest climate. That's going to cause a massive loss of players, no question. I already see it coming now from a long way off. Any fix by PGI to repair MWO after this will be all too late, because people will have left and not come back.

---

...and now I've need of taking my leave again. This post ate ~1 Hour of time to type out. Oh sure, I could have tried to go onto the battlefields with this time, but I've learned better about that. One MUST have at least 2 Hours of time to use, or they'll just get screwed by the MatchMaker, so it wasn't worth trying to launch. Later, folks!


~Mr. D. V. "just doing what constructiveness that they could with what little time they had" Devnull

****
Never wanted to know Lore BattleTech for nothing will not be now. This not MW game is an alternative. Only the drawings give to walk forward.