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Side Torso Heat Spike.


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#181 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:21 AM

View PostHammerMaster, on 18 March 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

I don't advocate for the parasitic sit back back lock farmers.
If you read more than one of my posts you would have seen that.
I have called for removal of free c3 style locks for YEARS now.
Don't mistake my disdain for your lack of observation of the ruleset for LRM abuse.


Cool story bro. But the thing is, if you would have actually been anywhere close to brawl range ever in your life with a cXL or LFE engine mech, you wouldn't be advocating for PGI's [redacted] side torso loss overheat design choice.

#182 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 01:26 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 18 March 2019 - 02:26 PM, said:

Its called mechwarrior, its part of the action vehicle game series of the same name. It is not BattletechMMO:The boardgame simulator.


Before the Solaris update it clearly and proudly said MechWarrior Online A BattleTech Game on its banner. Well ... I guess it suddenly stopped being BattleTech game anymore. It never was in fact, but it never stopped them advertising it as such and scamming people along the way.

#183 Avlaen

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:06 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 18 March 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:


It would make sense to keep the heat if a heatsink gets critted while the location its placed in isn't "destroyed". But if a side torso is "destroyed" then it is gone, not attached to the mech in any way and not having any infuence on a mech in any way either. Because "destroyed" means zero structure, and zero structure means there is nothing left there.


I mean When a ST is destroyed its still attached to the mech, so those heat sinks are still there, just not functional anymore.

#184 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:34 AM

You know, its kinda polite to quote with a name and timestamp if you are expecting to be read ...

View PostKhobai, on 18 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

I like how the guy that thinks heat energy magically disappear when a mech's ST gets destroyed is telling other people they need to study thermodynamics.


The model we were talking about only includes the mech itself to begin with. Since the destroyed ST isn't part of the mech anymore than indeed it does magically disappear from the model, along with its heat. If you would have bothered to read more than one post you could have come across several posts where I explain exactly what could happen to said energy.

View PostKhobai, on 18 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

Seriously do you even know the laws of thermodynamics? If you have a closed coolant loop that uses heatsinks to vent heat to the outside and those heatsinks are suddenly destroyed that heat is now trapped inside the mech because the coolant isnt able to carry it to the heatsinks. The heat is going to accumulate inside the mech because it has nowhere else to go.

The whole concept you seem to be missing is that heatsinks themselves dont actually store heat. Heatsinks simply exchange heat between the cryogenic coolant and the outside air. The heat itself is stored in the hundreds of feet of coolant lines and the cryogenic coolant (liquid helium cooled by liquid nitrogen probably) that run through the entire mech. Losing the heatsinks would not make the heat magically disappear. Thats not how cryogenic cooling systems work at all. And if the heatsinks are destroyed or the coolant lines are ruptured they can no longer carry the heat away at all so the heat is definitely going to accomulate.


The problem is we don't have any closed coolant loops in the game. We have heat sinks, that represent both the active venting device and a portion of said closed heat transfer system that I've also mentioned like a dozen times. Hence I refer to it as 'heat sinks'. And since in game the loss of a heat sink also means a loss of heat capacity, then such reference is perfectly valid.

Again, I and others have covered the rest as well. "Destroyed" torso means exactly that - completely destroyed torso structure, along with heat sinks, heat transfer system and whatever else was in it. Which means that all heat present in said torso instantly becomes kinetic energy of bits and pieces that are flying away from the mech carrying "heat" away. That is why its "gone". Because it isn't part of the system we are talking about. If you want to study the effects this debris has on the ecological situation of Caustic Valley, be my guest.

If the heat sink is "critted" and not destroyed, it does indeed stop functioning, which leads to the loss of heat dissipation. However, the heat transfer system is designed in a way that isolates any particular portion of itself automatically or manually when needed. That is why the loss of a active venting element, i.e. the actual heat sink, also leads to the loss of total mech heat capacity, which isn't by itself affected when the venting element stops functioning. And since it happens automatically and instantly, all heat present in the portion of the cut off heat transfer system doesn't magically jump over to the rest of it. It stays in the isolated section and has no impact whatsoever on the rest of the mech.

Obviously the total heat capacity is reduced, but there is NO heat spike because just like the portion of heat capacity is gone, so is the portion of heat that was currently stored in said capacity, it is also gone.

The heat isn't "accumulating" itself because there is no additional heat generation that magically appears. There are weapons, movement and JJs that can generate heat, but it is no different from what it was before the loss of a heat sink. Hence there is NO heat spike and NO gradual raise of heat overtime from any sort of "backflow", because the critted/damaged/destroyed section of the heat transfer system was isolated.

View PostKhobai, on 18 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

The only people that want this heatspike BS are the hardcore simulator crowd. But MWO is not, never has been, and never will be a simulation game. And they need to understand that.


I fail to see how this heatspike BS has anything to do with 'simulation' tho since it completely contradicts physics.

#185 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 02:40 AM

View PostAvlaen, on 19 March 2019 - 02:06 AM, said:

I mean When a ST is destroyed its still attached to the mech, so those heat sinks are still there, just not functional anymore.


Destroyed is destroyed. If it isn't destroyed then there is still structure left. If there is no structure left then there is nothing that holds that heat sink that isn't functional. Everything that was placed in the destroyed torso is for all intents and purposes gone from the mech, be it heat sinks, weapons, ammo and whatever else.

The fact that a destroyed ST is still visually attached to the mech is due to PGI's inability to program it otherwise.

#186 Kroete

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 04:08 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 17 March 2019 - 07:50 PM, said:

The system doesn't become colder when you lose heatisnks for the same reason heat doesn't remain in the system when a heatsink is lost.

It MAKES SENSE to lose heat threshold on heatsink loss, and it MAKES SENSE to lose heat dissipation on heatsink loss. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE for the heat already in lost components to remain.

The heat is not lost.

Think about a device that immitates 1kj heatenergy a second,
a pipe with a pump and some coolant that can carry 1kj heatenergy away a second
and a vent that can radiate 1kj heatenergy a second.

If you remove the vent, there is still 1kj heatenergy stored in the coolant, but it cant be radiated anymore and the device still adds another 1kj heatnergy a second to the system until it breaks or shuts down.

The lose of a heatsink will only remove a little heat (some coolant will flow out until the system is sealed again, the energy stored in it will be gone with the coolant together) but it will also reduce the overall performance of you cooling system.

If you want all the heat gone, just remove the autosealing of the pipes and let the coolant flow, if its all gone, all the heat is gone too, but you device will still immitate 1kj heatenergy and will overheat for sure in no time, because there is no coolant left to carry the heat energy away.

Did you never seen a watercooling for a pc?

#187 Besh

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 05:11 AM

I am still wondering what the rationale behind "if your ST explodes its gone" and that explosion not having any Thermal impact on the 'Mech is .

#188 RickySpanish

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 05:15 AM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 19 March 2019 - 02:40 AM, said:


Destroyed is destroyed. If it isn't destroyed then there is still structure left. If there is no structure left then there is nothing that holds that heat sink that isn't functional. Everything that was placed in the destroyed torso is for all intents and purposes gone from the mech, be it heat sinks, weapons, ammo and whatever else.

The fact that a destroyed ST is still visually attached to the mech is due to PGI's inability to program it otherwise.


Who are you kidding? They could remove those pieces if they wanted to lol. Jebus. Looks like you are the one in denial my friend. Also, those so called completely destroyed pieces act as a damage buffer, so clearly they have a presence.

View PostKroete, on 19 March 2019 - 04:08 AM, said:

The heat is not lost.

Think about a device that immitates 1kj heatenergy a second,
a pipe with a pump and some coolant that can carry 1kj heatenergy away a second
and a vent that can radiate 1kj heatenergy a second.

If you remove the vent, there is still 1kj heatenergy stored in the coolant, but it cant be radiated anymore and the device still adds another 1kj heatnergy a second to the system until it breaks or shuts down.

The lose of a heatsink will only remove a little heat (some coolant will flow out until the system is sealed again, the energy stored in it will be gone with the coolant together) but it will also reduce the overall performance of you cooling system.

If you want all the heat gone, just remove the autosealing of the pipes and let the coolant flow, if its all gone, all the heat is gone too, but you device will still immitate 1kj heatenergy and will overheat for sure in no time, because there is no coolant left to carry the heat energy away.

Did you never seen a watercooling for a pc?


This is a local thread for local people! We'll have none of your logic here!

#189 HammerMaster

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:05 PM

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 19 March 2019 - 01:21 AM, said:


Cool story bro. But the thing is, if you would have actually been anywhere close to brawl range ever in your life with a cXL or LFE engine mech, you wouldn't be advocating for PGI's [redacted] side torso loss overheat design choice.

You don't know one whit about how I operate.
Get off my case.

Edited by HammerMaster, 19 March 2019 - 12:05 PM.


#190 VonBruinwald

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:20 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 19 March 2019 - 05:15 AM, said:

This is a local thread for local people! We'll have none of your logic here!


Posted Image

View PostPhoenixFire55, on 19 March 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

And here we FINALLY see the motivation behind your nonesensical justification of PGI's cancerous game design decision. Why it is always the same thing. Clams OP plz nerf nao.


So let me get this right? Suggesting a piece of equipment that provides tech parity because Clan's have lighter engines and free case in all components is being biased against clans? Dude, that's called balance...

You need to take a coolshot and chill before someone pop's your ST, it's clear you can't handle the heat.

#191 RickySpanish

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 12:33 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 19 March 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

You need to take a coolshot and chill before someone pop's your ST, it's clear you can't handle the heat.


Nonsense! He will be fine so long as he chops his chest off.

#192 Wil McCullough

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 06:28 PM

If you are packing a cxl or lfe engine and are at zero heat, you don't get a heat spike if you lose a st. That means heat levels aren't affected by engine heat.

If you move, your heat bar doesn't rise or fall. That means heat isn't based on how hard your engine is working.

If you move with a st missing, your heat bar doesn't rise either. That means your engine doesn't need a st to vent heat efficiently.

Using that logic, all heatsinks are used for the express purpose of dissipating heat from your weapons and other ordnance. Ergo, when you lose a st or heatsinks, it only affects heat from weapons or ordnance.

Ergo, if you lose a st, heat will either be trapped in your weapon system or your remaining heat sinks (the latter assuming space magic coolant is 100% efficient and instantly transfers heat from weapons to heatsinks).

Since losing heatsinks doesn't cause a catastrophic explosion in its location (you don't take extra location damage or suffer ammo explosions due to heatsink loss if you lose a heatsink in that location), it means heatsinks are innert. They just stop working.

Meaning heat build up should eventually either cause your weapons or remaining heat sinks to stop working, not cause a heat spike.

You will end up as a weaponless, heatsink-less paper weight long before you explode from overheating.

Does that put this argument to rest?

#193 Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 06:58 PM

If your side torse is gone, do you REALLY wanna live? I just hit override when I am open and pump as many alphas (whatever is left anyway) as I can before RNGesus takes me. Sometimes I get a kill.

I think this is working as intended. Don't give PGI any ideas to mess with another system.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 20 March 2019 - 06:59 PM.


#194 Wil McCullough

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 07:10 PM

View PostTelemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, on 20 March 2019 - 06:58 PM, said:

If your side torse is gone, do you REALLY wanna live? I just hit override when I am open and pump as many alphas (whatever is left anyway) as I can before RNGesus takes me. Sometimes I get a kill.

I think this is working as intended. Don't give PGI any ideas to mess with another system.


The problem people have is that if you're already hot and someone shoots off your st, the heat spike causes you to instantly.overheat and die. That or shut down in the middle of a firefight and die almost instantly anyway. You don't get the chance to shoot off a few more alphas unless you expose while cold.

#195 Y E O N N E

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 07:11 PM

View PostWil McCullough, on 20 March 2019 - 06:28 PM, said:

If you move, your heat bar doesn't rise or fall. That means heat isn't based on how hard your engine is working.


Actually false, it does rise if you move and it is affected by both the number of DHS and the ambient temperature.

#196 Wil McCullough

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 08:02 PM

View PostY E O N N E, on 20 March 2019 - 07:11 PM, said:


Actually false, it does rise if you move and it is affected by both the number of DHS and the ambient temperature.


I know ambient temp increases your heat bar by a certain amount but it's a constant amount. I've never seen a heat bar change because of mech movement though.

#197 Kanil

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 08:06 PM

View PostWil McCullough, on 20 March 2019 - 08:02 PM, said:

I know ambient temp increases your heat bar by a certain amount but it's a constant amount. I've never seen a heat bar change because of mech movement though.

It doesn't move the bar above 0% with new high dissipation/low capacity heatsinks, but has always and still very much does generate heat.

Edited by Kanil, 20 March 2019 - 08:07 PM.


#198 Y E O N N E

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 08:06 PM

View PostWil McCullough, on 20 March 2019 - 08:02 PM, said:

I know ambient temp increases your heat bar by a certain amount but it's a constant amount. I've never seen a heat bar change because of mech movement though.


It definitely does, and it also eats into your dissipation. Ergo, your sustained weapons output is actually slightly less while running than while standing stationary.

And then there's JJs, which add yet another burden on your sinks when engaged.

#199 Wil McCullough

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 08:27 PM

View PostY E O N N E, on 20 March 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:


It definitely does, and it also eats into your dissipation. Ergo, your sustained weapons output is actually slightly less while running than while standing stationary.

And then there's JJs, which add yet another burden on your sinks when engaged.


Do you have videos where moving causes the heat bar to go up and down? I can't see that happening in random mwo youtube vids and i've never encountered it personally either.

#200 Y E O N N E

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 08:38 PM



Watch his heat bar when he stops moving, an then starts again.





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