66 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Angel of Annihilation, on 21 March 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

Nice proof that the Clans get totally F'ed the hell over with much less effective missiles unless they are boated en-mass. Typical PGI balancing, balance LRMs based on the worst possible scenario and the hell with anyone who wants to mount 1 or 2 launchers. God I hate how PGI has just ruined 90% of clan mechs to balance just a few top performers.

On the bright side aren't Clan LRMs half the weight of IS LRMs and thus twice as easy to boat?

[Sug]

Mystere, on 21 March 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Different health values for the exact same missile merely placed on different launchers just make no sense at all. What was PGI thinking? <smh>

Its some of the dumbest **** they've ever done.

[JediPanther]

pgi gona pgi but hey you bought the new mech pack yet or pre order mw5? Just think how pgi gona pgi that!

[Variant1]

yeah the ams changes where dumb. I suggest PGI reworks the entire system so that ams only shoots downa % of missiles per salvo, that way missiles gets through but they dont obliterate the ams mech. win win for both parties and makes ams consistent

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Real world experience shows that LRM80 boating is just as F**cked as every other missile launcher. The missiles are too easy to defeat, simply by walking behind a building or hill. The AMS is WAAAAAAY overpowered, ECM provides too much of a shield and there are ZERO counters that a guided missile user have that will work to overcome these handicaps.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Skrapiron, on 31 March 2019 - 01:52 PM, said:

Real world experience shows that LRM80 boating is just as F**cked as every other missile launcher. The missiles are too easy to defeat, simply by walking behind a building or hill.

How do you suggest LRM80 should be defeated then?

[Vellron2005]

Navid A1, on 20 March 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

Chris did it again.
All hail Chris.

As always, PTS tests one thing, then Live brings about Ten untested significant changes, devastating the game.

JUST LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS!!!

No AMS skill nodes equipped:




Both AMS skill node selected:

Can you say AMS OP?

ShiverMeRivets, on 01 April 2019 - 05:12 AM, said:

How do you suggest LRM80 should be defeated then?

It shouldn't be defeated. It should be lessened, but never by more than 30%.. so with 4 AMS present, only 26 of 80 missiles should be downed..

Edited by Vellron2005, 02 April 2019 - 12:44 AM.

[Prototelis]

^ Thats ******* ridiculous. A single AMS already isn't that effective even with buffs. 14 out of 40 for each roll of IS autoaim80 isn't ****. There isn't that much AMS floating around now. AMS boats are not common. Use them leet back farming target reading skills and find where the bubble is weakest.

Expose yourself when necessary instead of hiding the entire fight.

[Dimento Graven]

Prototelis, on 02 April 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

^ Thats ******* ridiculous. A single AMS already isn't that effective even with buffs. 14 out of 40 for each roll of IS autoaim80 isn't ****. There isn't that much AMS floating around now. AMS boats are not common. Use them leet back farming target reading skills and find where the bubble is weakest.

Expose yourself when necessary instead of hiding the entire fight.

Yeah, unfortunately there are people that will still claim it's broken because now they have to put in just a little more effort to use LRMs/ATMs... Hell, I hear PGI is going to put AMS on a 'minimum range' modifier like IS LRMs because the face hugging streak/SRM users don't like having ANY missiles get shot shot down when they're jamming their faces into enemies and mashing buttons...

Steering wheel underhive confirmed...

[dante245]

Prototelis, on 02 April 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

^ Thats ******* ridiculous. A single AMS already isn't that effective even with buffs. 14 out of 40 for each roll of IS autoaim80 isn't ****. There isn't that much AMS floating around now. AMS boats are not common. Use them leet back farming target reading skills and find where the bubble is weakest.

Expose yourself when necessary instead of hiding the entire fight.

accept for the all over the place corsair 7A with quad AMS and the 2 AMS broadside everyone got for free you mean?

[Prototelis]

They aren't dropping in mass like they were. The event is over, and they're terrible mechs on top of giving up a lot to run multiple ams, especially 4ams

[Khobai]

Dimento Graven, on 02 April 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

Yeah, unfortunately there are people that will still claim it's broken because now they have to put in just a little more effort to use LRMs/ATMs... Hell, I hear PGI is going to put AMS on a 'minimum range' modifier like IS LRMs because the face hugging streak/SRM users don't like having ANY missiles get shot shot down when they're jamming their faces into enemies and mashing buttons...

Steering wheel underhive confirmed...

AMS is definitely broken. It weighs 1.5 tons but nullifies several times its own weight in missile launchers.

If there was an equivalent to AMS for lasers or ballistics, people would be CRYING about it.

The only reason the AMS thing isnt a bigger deal is because missiles always sucked and any expectations for missiles being good was already low. Its just beating a dead horse, nobody cares if MRMs are worse, because they were never really good.

But if PGI added a 1.5 ton piece of equipment that halved energy or ballistic damage, people would be absolutely livid about it, because those categories contain all the weapons that players actually use and expect to be good.

Edited by Khobai, 02 April 2019 - 07:38 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 02 April 2019 - 07:32 PM, said:

AMS is definitely broken. It weighs 1.5 tons but nullifies several times its own weight in missile launchers.

Which means ECM is broken because of the same reasons.

No. I disagree with your reasoning.

EDIT: Oh , not to mention the fact that it can only completely nullified if you bring LOTS of AMS's and the enemy foolishly fires his weapons at MAXIMUM possible range. Otherwise, a single AMS is only partially effective against the computer guided, RNGesus centric weapon systems...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 April 2019 - 07:36 PM.

[Hellbringer]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 20 March 2019 - 10:07 PM, said:

The TL;DR version: Kiss your SRM and MRM poptarts and brawlers goodbye for a while. You can expect to lose half or more of every volley you fire, so you might as well just bring ballistics or lasers instead. Also expect to still see 80-100 tube LRMboats hanging out under cover in the backfield, because that's pretty much gonna be the only way to win trades with non-ATM missile builds once everyone figures out just how powerful AMS really just became. Streakboats will be affected somewhat less because their prey of choice (fast lights) mostly can't carry enough AMS to defeat them, and frequently leaves the protective shell of their team.

yeah...... but....... we aint gonna listen to a dead guy so there!

Edited by Hellbringer, 02 April 2019 - 09:18 PM.

[Vellron2005]

To the people saying "AMS is not a problem cose' people aren't bringing lots of AMS" - All it takes is ONE 4AMS Corsair.. And keep in mind that yes, there isn't much of it on the field.. only cose' big units don't feel like trolling..

But get 6+ people with trolling in mind to bring 1-2 AMS each, and LRMs are dead in the air..

Such small 3-5 ton investment can mean the difference between stomping and getting stomped on Polar for instance..

How is that not OP?

[Curccu]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

But get 6+ people with trolling in mind to bring 1-2 AMS each, and LRMs are dead in the air..
Such small 3-5 ton investment can mean the difference between stomping and getting stomped on Polar for instance..

How is that not OP?

6+ people is minimium 6 tons, that ammo will not last for long so lets say 9 tons and that ammo also runs out pretty fast.

[Dimento Graven]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

To the people saying "AMS is not a problem cose' people aren't bringing lots of AMS" - All it takes is ONE 4AMS Corsair.. And keep in mind that yes, there isn't much of it on the field.. only cose' big units don't feel like trolling..

But get 6+ people with trolling in mind to bring 1-2 AMS each, and LRMs are dead in the air..

Such small 3-5 ton investment can mean the difference between stomping and getting stomped on Polar for instance..

How is that not OP?

That's a lot of hooey, really. That particular Corsair is a piece of crap, ultimately, and the ONLY reason to bring one is if your sole intent is to try and control an overabundant LRM/ATM population during some challenge/event.

Look, I'm sorry that LRMs/ATMs/MRMs/SRMs aren't the "be all/end all" of weapons... No wait, I'm not sorry. If this game were to degrade so much that lesser skilled, lesser risk weapons became the "meta", it wouldn't be fun.

Sitting in the back waiting for my computer to "lock on" so I could mash a button until RNGesus decides it's time for a targeted 'mech to die isn't fun for me, unless I'm really, really drunk, and friend, my liver couldn't stand that much drinkin...

So yeah, computer guided weaponry should have some counters.

Computer guided weaponry should be significantly less effective if being used at its maximum range.

Computer guided weaponry should perform badly if the pilot isn't using the weapon system intelligently.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 03 April 2019 - 04:58 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

To the people saying &quot;AMS is not a problem cose' people aren't bringing lots of AMS&quot; - All it takes is ONE 4AMS Corsair.. And keep in mind that yes, there isn't much of it on the field.. only cose' big units don't feel like trolling..

But get 6+ people with trolling in mind to bring 1-2 AMS each, and LRMs are dead in the air..

Such small 3-5 ton investment can mean the difference between stomping and getting stomped on Polar for instance..

How is that not OP?

6 people taking suboptimal DF builds with counters to cancel out your 1 lrm boat doesn't seem unfair. I've already seen that 6 lrm boats still punch through and reck 6 single ams mechs

[Athom83]

Prototelis, on 02 April 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:

They aren't dropping in mass like they were. The event is over, and they're terrible mechs on top of giving up a lot to run multiple ams, especially 4ams

Eh, I quite like the Corsair and its turning out to be my primary mech nowadays.

[Athom83]

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

To the people saying "AMS is not a problem cose' people aren't bringing lots of AMS" - All it takes is ONE 4AMS Corsair.. And keep in mind that yes, there isn't much of it on the field.. only cose' big units don't feel like trolling..

No, they aren't out in force because in general taking an AMS HINDERS you more than it helps you. That other tonnage could be put into weapons (to kill the enemy faster), Heatsinks (to keep yourself cool enough to keep up the fighting longer), or ammo (to, ya know, be able to deal damage to the enemy). Sure, it has its uses (and I know this as I'm one of the few people that try to fit an AMS on most of my mechs if it has a slot available), but to most people it just isn't optimal to try and fit an AMS when that tonnage can be better put use elsewhere.

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

But get 6+ people with trolling in mind to bring 1-2 AMS each, and LRMs are dead in the air..

That's not people trolling... that's people who actually understand utility and actually sacrifice something else from their build to ADD utility to the team.

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

Such small 3-5 ton investment can mean the difference between stomping and getting stomped on Polar for instance..

Each AMS is a 1.5 ton investment at a bare minimum, with a realistic investment being more 2-2.5 PER AMS. And for LAMS, its more like 3.5t per unit when including the heat sinks added to better manage the LAMS firing. For 6 people with 2 AMS each, that's a close to 30 ton investment. What sort of reality are you living in? Cause it sure isn't the one everyone else is.

Vellron2005, on 03 April 2019 - 02:23 AM, said:

How is that not OP?

Lol, and the thing is... its massively UNDER powered compared to what it is in lore/TT. In TT, a single AMS could swat down multiple LRM20 volleys in a single turn if you were (extremely) lucky. Though the difference between there and here is that that only worked for the mech mounting the AMS. There, to get what we have in game as an AOE defence, it required an ADS (Advanced AMS) that is 3 tons per unit (without ammo) and generated heat like LAMS. So I suppose you have some point if directly comparing what we have to source (but equally incorrect at the same time).