190 replies to this topic

[Xaat Xuun]

I must be the few that find that the patch improved LRM.
my hit percentage has gone up, I do more damage, Love that LOS part, so much quicker, hate it being on receiving end

I don't see a nerf, except for those that only want to be far back and never in a LOS situation, and require someone else to grab their targets, and I wouldn't call that a nerf

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 28 March 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

they could increase the range to infinite. they would still be useless at long range.

the problem isnt the max range. its the velocity.

LRMs crawl so slowly through the air that you can literally slow motion dodge them. Or just shoot them down with AMS.

The only way LRMs will ever be good at long range is if their velocity gets substantially increased. Which would also require some major changes to how IDF works.

The missile warning must also be removed. It was only added to cater to the massive crying.

Edited by Mystere, 28 March 2019 - 12:17 PM.

[Khale MacGregor]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

The missile warning must also be removed. It was only added to cater to the massive crying.

Actually the incoming missile warning falls into the sensors and radar, if you wanna take out the warning all together, then just take away radar and sensors completely. Boom no more missile warning.

[Mystere]

Khale MacGregor, on 28 March 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Actually the incoming missile warning falls into the sensors and radar, if you wanna take out the warning all together, then just take away radar and sensors completely. Boom no more missile warning.

I was referring to the actual reason WHY PGI added the warning when they did.

[Novakaine]

Yeah Khale reminds me of a match earlier this month.
This dude charged a Assault lance all by him lonesome.
Despite the fact I told him hey pull back multiple mechs there.
I lurm from the front is why I saw them.
He died within the first 2 minutes and spent the rest of the match.
Berating everyone not to mention bragging how "Elite" he was
And saw him in two later matches on the opposite side.
I'd imagined he did the same thing as he died yet again within minutes of the match.
I got him once.
Hadn't seen him since.
I think he rage quit.
Good riddance buh bye "Elite Boy."

[Tesunie]

Just here to add a little information:

KhanBhacKeD, on 26 March 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

2) it's irrelevant : bap/tag can counter 1 ecm mech, if more than one UAV is your friend. (and this from a long time ago)

UAV will not effectively help SSRM users against multiple ECM mechs IF you are within said ECM mech's disruptive ranges, and neither will TAG. APs will shut down the closest ECM unit, but if there are two within range of you, than your SSRMs will still be shut down from the ECM effects.

TAG I do not believe improves lock times at all for the mech using it (only those trying to shoot indirectly), though it does still "punch through" (not countering) ECM effects if it is used outside the ECM's influence.

UAVs only help your team know there are several mechs in a location, but will not assist you personally with getting SSRM locks if under the influence (of enemy ECM). They will help mechs outside the ECM effects to see the suspect mech on their minimap and be able to lock them.

These are the specific interactions of the game mechanics.

---

On the opinion of AMS, I'm starting to consider that it may be tuned a little too high at the moment. It would appear (though I can not confirm), that a single AMS can eradicate an entire CLRM15 volley on it's own within reasonable positioning. I also can confirm that a single ton of ammo (with two AMS units) has been able to shoot down upwards of 600+ missiles before running out of ammo. Previously, this number was around 300 missiles per ton of ammo... So we are currently observing what appears to be a twice as efficient AMS system... Which seems to be a little much in my personal opinion.

This improvement to AMS is encouraging boats more and discouraging smaller tube count builds. This seems to be counter to the stated intent of the changes, and makes it even more "boat or go home". I personally would rather see AMS take a percentage of missiles in a given volley, with a gradually decreasing bonus as more AMS adds to the defense. This would start to normalize AMS against any sized launcher or tube count build. Boats would still get "more missiles through" by nature of a percentage, but in retrospect so would smaller launchers. It would remain as a soft counter, instead of a variable "hard/soft" counter it seems to sit at right now... where it's a hard counter against some builds, and only a soft counter against others once the tube counts become large enough...

Of course, this is just my opinion and concept.

[Khale MacGregor]

Novakaine, on 28 March 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah Khale reminds me of a match earlier this month.
This dude charged a Assault lance all by him lonesome.
Despite the fact I told him hey pull back multiple mechs there.
I lurm from the front is why I saw them.
He died within the first 2 minutes and spent the rest of the match.
Berating everyone not to mention bragging how "Elite" he was
And saw him in two later matches on the opposite side.
I'd imagined he did the same thing as he died yet again within minutes of the match.
I got him once.
Hadn't seen him since.
I think he rage quit.
Good riddance buh bye "Elite Boy."

Exactly! I have seen MANY MANY MANY people like this.

Its like being in the military or at a shooting range and there is always that 1 moron who says I dont need to shoot I always shoot expert and then they put a gun in his hands and damn near shoots himself in the foot. Which btw, Ive seen on a few different occasions. and then it takes them forever to qualify for even marksman.

[JediPanther]

Khobai, on 27 March 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

The funniest part of the whole thing is that LRM boating wasnt even potent enough to warrant a nerf.



it was always gone. LRMs have never been long range in the entire history of the game. They were always pretty useless beyond 500m-600m because of how damn slow they travel.

LRMs are supposed to have max range that rivals IS-ERLLs and IS-ERLLs can reliably damage mechs at 1500m.

the dumb x2 max range they gave lasers/ballistics but NOT missiles is mostly responsible for that.

Khobai, on 27 March 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

The funniest part of the whole thing is that LRM boating wasnt even potent enough to warrant a nerf.



it was always gone. LRMs have never been long range in the entire history of the game. They were always pretty useless beyond 500m-600m because of how damn slow they travel.

LRMs are supposed to have max range that rivals IS-ERLLs and IS-ERLLs can reliably damage mechs at 1500m.

the dumb x2 max range they gave lasers/ballistics but NOT missiles is mostly responsible for that.

Actually using certain mechs plus mech quirks plus skill tree you can lrm out to 1150m but you absolutely must have a spotter as even the tag has a range limit. I think so far the farthest I've got tag on IS mechs is 800m which includes skill tree and mech quirks. Without your buddy marking targets and that target being in cover or nearly in cover lrming at 1150m is a waste.

[K O Z A K]

Take it easy there GI Joe. This is a video game, and what artillery is in real life and what LRMs are in this game are very different.

That's fine, solo QP exists for the very reason to play around with what you find to be fun builds, nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that by doing so you're being detrimental to your team and the reality is that you're losing a lot less than you otherwise would be because someone on your team is tryharding with top end mechs. You can be better at one playstyle or another, but some mechs are built to be more effective than others (RL analogy for you military guy: you can have fun shooting a borz smg, but it's an objectively worse built firearm than an HK416)

"good players in good mechs" that die within the first few minutes by running off by themselves and proceed to blame their team are not good players, and chances are they're probably not in good mechs. You're accusing me of something you have 0 evidence to support.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

After doing a bunch of QP this afternoon, I can confirm that IDF has been effectively emasculated to the point of being a useless jest. Between my AMS and the AMS of my team mates, I chuckled while watching entire alpha strike volleys disappear into nothing. Between the AMS and ECM. the only missile damage I suffered was from MRM or SRM fired at extreme close range. Even then, their volleys were greatly reduced by the hail of AMS fire.

PGI has rendered missiles fired at any sort of range to be a joke.

[Khale MacGregor]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 12:36 PM, said:

Take it easy there GI Joe. This is a video game, and what artillery is in real life and what LRMs are in this game are very different.

That's fine, solo QP exists for the very reason to play around with what you find to be fun builds, nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that by doing so you're being detrimental to your team and the reality is that you're losing a lot less than you otherwise would be because someone on your team is tryharding with top end mechs. You can be better at one playstyle or another, but some mechs are built to be more effective than others (RL analogy for you military guy: you can have fun shooting a borz smg, but it's an objectively worse built firearm than an HK416)

"good players in good mechs" that die within the first few minutes by running off by themselves and proceed to blame their team are not good players, and chances are they're probably not in good mechs. You're accusing me of something you have 0 evidence to support.

Of course you would say that, but hey you opened the door buddy, by assuming that is how I play. and My evidence to support my claim is how you reacted to my post. Not my fault if you do not understand that.

And I know LRM and RL Artillery work different. But the concept or principle is the same. But if you think about it the "Catapult" was used as an artillery weapon that provided long range Direct Fire or Indirect Fire support. What you do know, we have a mech called the "Catapult" that fires LRMs for Long range support i.e. Artillery. since we cant fire boulders, rocks, flaming balls of hay or grass, or what ever else, body parts, the heads of our defeated enemies.

[K O Z A K]

I assumed nothing, you yourself said you prefer playing lore mix builds, from that I can safely say that your performance in a match is worse than it would be if you played more effective setups. Which means other players have to work harder to make up for you having fun in order to win.

You on the other hand assumed for some reason that because I mostly play effectively built mechs that means I'm an a**hole that runs at the enemy, dies without doing anything and b****es out their team for the remainder of the drop, and proceeded with a bunch of personal insults, in combination to insulting branches of your own armed forces for some reason.

Again, this is a video game, not real life. In real life you want to have the most bs, overpowered process possible of defeating your enemy (putting aside the fact that artillery is one of the most difficult types of weapon to aim, compared to LRMs being the easiest weapon to aim). The closest thing I can think of that resembles LRMs in real life would be something like a javelin, which requires 2 guys to carry, gets its own locks, is very heavy, can't be shot thousands of times and even then is by all intents and purposes OP AF. This game has an actual artillery, it's an allied NPC and it's called.....artillery.

Applying real life logic to games doesn't work, because you want to have some form of balance between weapons. If we applied real world logic to this game an airstrike would be able to smoke half the enemy team every time you dropped it.

At the end of the day this is still a video game, you can do whatever you want to have fun. But just accept that you're letting your teammates down in the name of you having fun your way.

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 01:43 PM, said:

... artillery is one of the most difficult types of weapon to aim, compared to LRMs being the easiest weapon to aim ...

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at your accuracy percentage numbers for LRMs? I just looked at mine and was surprised to see that they were the lowest in relation to everything else.

As such, I am having my doubts about your "easiest weapon to aim" claim.

Edited by Mystere, 28 March 2019 - 02:24 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at your accuracy percentage numbers for LRMs? I just looked at mine and was surprised to see that they were the lowest in relation to everything else.

As such, I am having my doubts about your "easiest weapon to aim" claim.

cmon dude, that's weak even for you

first of all easy to aim and easy to land hits with is different things, second, and this is the more important part, how many shots do you do of other weapons compared to lrms. I can fire around 60 rounds of gauss from a dual gauss mech, comparatively I can spam out around 5000 missiles from an lrm mech. Obviously you take much greater care firing weapons that you can shoot a lot less, a dual heavy gauss miss is really bad given how little ammo you can take, a full volley lrm miss is a no biggie, you can just keep spamming away. If you could only carry 60 LRMs I can guarantee your hit rate would be much higher

shots with dakka or ppcs on moving targets at 800m compared to putting circle in box is not even remotely in the same difficulty league

[Tesunie]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, have you looked at your accuracy percentage numbers for LRMs? I just looked at mine and was surprised to see that they were the lowest in relation to everything else.

As such, I am having my doubts about your "easiest weapon to aim" claim.

I would comment that the weapon stats page (which may be bugged), considers each individual missile fired. With LRM spread (which makes them behave differently depending upon the geometry of the target) and AMS shooting down missiles (which count as misses I believe), LRMs will appear to have a lower accuracy. Not saying it's "super accurate beyond those points", just saying that those aspects do need to be considered. (And weapon stat page might also be seriously bugged...)

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 02:55 PM, said:

cmon dude, that's weak even for you

It was a serious question with a half-jibe.

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 02:55 PM, said:

first of all easy to aim and easy to land hits with is different things ...

Therein lies the rub. I consider landing hits as a necessary part of "aiming".

Tesunie, on 28 March 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

I would comment that the weapon stats page (which may be bugged), considers each individual missile fired. With LRM spread (which makes them behave differently depending upon the geometry of the target) and AMS shooting down missiles (which count as misses I believe), LRMs will appear to have a lower accuracy. Not saying it's "super accurate beyond those points", just saying that those aspects do need to be considered. (And weapon stat page might also be seriously bugged...)

Ah! AMS!

Having said that, I don't recall AMS causing me so much problems (or futilely insisting on punching through) that my numbers would end up being that low.

But then again my memory might be failing me.

Edited by Mystere, 28 March 2019 - 03:38 PM.

[K O Z A K]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

[/left]


It was a serious question with a half-jibe.




Therein lies the rub. I consider landing hits as a necessary part of "aiming".

How can you possibly guarantee a high hit rate when 3/4 of the time you're shooting you can't even see what it is you're shooting at. It doesn't make it harder to aim, your aiming still begins and ends with putting big circle over big box. But it doesn't even matter, because of the obscene amount of ammo you carry, you can just keep firing without giving it a second thought. Missing 80% of your shots in a missile boat still gives you 1000 damage, let that sink in for a second.

[Tesunie]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

How can you possibly guarantee a high hit rate when 3/4 of the time you're shooting you can't even see what it is you're shooting at. It doesn't make it harder to aim, your aiming still begins and ends with putting big circle over big box. But it doesn't even matter, because of the obscene amount of ammo you carry, you can just keep firing without giving it a second thought. Missing 80% of your shots in a missile boat still gives you 1000 damage, let that sink in for a second.

I guess I'm not included there... as my builds normally (if they take LRMs) have about 30 tubes. Most I think I have on a single mech at the moment is 45 tubes...

[Mystere]

Tesunie, on 28 March 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

I guess I'm not included there... as my builds normally (if they take LRMs) have about 30 tubes. Most I think I have on a single mech at the moment is 45 tubes...

I don't recall bringing over 40 tubes either, or "obscene" amounts of ammo. If I ever did, it would have been so extremely rare for me to even remember.

[Tesunie]

Mystere, on 28 March 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:

I don't recall bringing over 40 tubes either, or "obscene" amounts of ammo. If I ever did, it would have been so extremely rare for me to even remember.

I think most of my mechs have between 2-4 tons of ammo (mech and loadout dependent of course). Rest is all dedicated to direct fire weapons... I like having a higher direct fire to LRM ratio than most people seem to.