96 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

A little too late in the game when the CEO of PGI already declared the game EOL (end of life)

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 11 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

it absolutely is a fact. countless new players have quit the game because of the toxic state of group queue. many people here have recounted stories about not being able to get friends to keep playing the game. that has been my experience as well.

LOL, if those players have problems with the level of toxicity in this game. I'm pretty damn sure they shouldn't be allowed ANYWHERE on the internet, besides maybe various kids games like, hell I can't even remember the name it's so long, Wizards101, that's it, and there was no VOIP and the word filtering in text chat was EXTREMELY filtered.

On THAT game, MAYBE they'd avoid toxicity.

Frankly, since you can turn off VOIP and never turn on text chat, I find the "toxicity" excuse people use as just that, an excuse.

This game has damn STEEP learning curve for an FPS, and it's probably less abusive to one's ego to claim that "Oh the game is to toxic", rather than, "I'm too lazy to put forth the effort to learn to play the game well..."

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does that mean all teams are toxic? no of course not. but there is enough toxicity among groups that the overall environment of group queue has become toxic.

its not friendly to new/casual players at all or conducive to retaining new/casual players with the ultimate goal of converting them to paid players. The current state of group queue is simply not helping the game.

Well it's rather stupid to try and "train" new players in the group queue anyway. Seriously stupid.

You want to train someone to fight well, take 'em to Solaris, find a division with no one else in it, and sync drop against each other.

You can take time to train the basics, allow them to experiment with and learn how to make better 'mech builds, AND, the rate of return (CBILL-wise) is better.

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to that end the only real fix is to implement a working matchmaker. and since that would create more buckets you also have to allow solo players in group queue to help mitigate the problem of having more buckets.

Match makers have to have sufficient population to work well, and in group queue it's pretty much impossible to have a MM that works effectively more than 20% of the time. You "might" be able to average a PSR, but you can't "average" the builds (other than by weight), nor can you "average" disparate play styles, nor can you account for map and mode selection (and their subsequent effects on play style, 'mech build, and player's level of familiarity with said maps and modes).

You need to give that one up brother. That horse has long been beaten into glue.

Khobai, on 11 June 2019 - 11:14 AM, said:

theres no motivation to excel and advance in this game anyway. it has no long-term progression or high level goals for players to work towards. thats what faction play was supposed to be and failed at miserably.

What? Trying to become a CBILLIONAIRE isn't a good enough goal for you?

Not many players have done it...

[Wil McCullough]

A lot of these "community is toxic" folk seem to confuse toxicity with competitiveness in a pvp game. Or even just having a desire to win constitutes toxicity.

"I brought my noob friend into group queue and he kept getting smashed so now he doesn't want to play anymore. Screw the toxic playerbase!"

Seriously. No one knows your friend is a noob. No one cares either to be honest. They shoot the red doritos because shooting red doritos is one of the most basic criteria for winning games. And your friend is a red dorito. Not a special red dorito. A completely average, normal red dorito. A few people seem to have the mistaken opinion that whining about a "toxic" community helps them win games. You're wrong. It doesn't. Because you should be shooting red doritos instead.

Food for thought - maybe the reason your friend keeps losing in group queue is because you're telling them what to do and you suck balls. So maybe your friend is tired of losing because of YOU.

[Asym]

Wil McCullough, on 10 June 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

What is this nonsense. You want to win. So do the other team. They're just better at winning than.you are. How.is that toxic? The only toxicity here is that you feel entitled to wins over better teams. So entitled in fact, that you expect them to throw games for you. And if they don't throw games to you, they're being jerks. I don't even.

What a silly response....

Here's a thought: if you are right, why is it no one playing the freaking game now??? Where are the two teams I was on: LONG GONE........ I stayed as the Scout (FILO) and I use these forums and a great many other forums for research.... Yes, students study forums and the game they come from to experience what does or does not work..... Guess what category MWO is in, eh?

That's right, they all left because a bunch of juvenile delinquents decided that massacring noobs "was the thing to do..." And, just to make matters worse, took their righteous attitudes outside of Faction Play and kept grinding people down. !!

And, we wonder why no one is left.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

many goes long before, while seeing the Stat and Future of MWO before Russs and say is dead...By PGI was the Group Factor from begin a Dead Horse, only a Game for Egocentric -Esports was the Goal..Loyality system was a Big goal and later in the Loyality FP events a Fault

[Wil McCullough]

Asym, on 12 June 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

What a silly response....

Here's a thought: if you are right, why is it no one playing the freaking game now??? Where are the two teams I was on: LONG GONE........ I stayed as the Scout (FILO) and I use these forums and a great many other forums for research.... Yes, students study forums and the game they come from to experience what does or does not work..... Guess what category MWO is in, eh?

That's right, they all left because a bunch of juvenile delinquents decided that massacring noobs "was the thing to do..." And, just to make matters worse, took their righteous attitudes outside of Faction Play and kept grinding people down. !!

And, we wonder why no one is left.

No, you moron. They left because the game has a ****** matchmaker that matches new players against experienced, high performing players when they never should be matched in the first place. Point your hate at the right place, kid.

[Lykaon]

Asym, on 12 June 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

What a silly response....

Here's a thought: if you are right, why is it no one playing the freaking game now??? Where are the two teams I was on: LONG GONE........ I stayed as the Scout (FILO) and I use these forums and a great many other forums for research.... Yes, students study forums and the game they come from to experience what does or does not work..... Guess what category MWO is in, eh?

That's right, they all left because a bunch of juvenile delinquents decided that massacring noobs "was the thing to do..." And, just to make matters worse, took their righteous attitudes outside of Faction Play and kept grinding people down. !!

And, we wonder why no one is left.

Let me get this straight,you expect anyone who has actually done research to believe you are capable of research?

If you place the blame on players for playing a game instead of possibly the faults inherent within a game you are lacking in the impartial thought process that is absolutely a necessity to complete effective research in the hows and whys of game development failure.

Have you actually convinced yourself that there was something about MWo that attracted only the most vile and sociopathic players who also happen to possess the superior skills in MWo to systematically drive away any non aberrant player base.

Or is it more likely that PGI failed to create appropriate mechanics to scale the difficultly of the opposition to meet the skill levels of the less proficient players?

Stop conducting a witch hunt to fill the criteria of your hypothosis and start using an impartial and scientific method to conduct "research" . Or at the very least try to be logical.

You're basically saying that if a player played the game as it was presented and succeeded they were toxic and if a player attempted to play the game as presented but failed they were victimized by the former group and chased off.

Now doesn't that sound kinda...well silly.

Edited by Lykaon, 12 June 2019 - 11:29 PM.

[Horseman]

Asym, on 12 June 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

What a silly response....

So you want your opponents to throw games for you?

[Asym]

Wil McCullough, on 12 June 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

No, you moron. They left because the game has a ****** matchmaker that matches new players against experienced, high performing players when they never should be matched in the first place. Point your hate at the right place, kid.

You are so funny ! Kid........I wish. I don't "hate" anything.... You do understand cause and effect, right? this isn't hate: several groups of players got a bit out of control and terrorized a mode of play...... At the same time, PGI decided that they needed to head another direction because the FP side of the house wasn't producing the income they wanted..... The then shifted gears to Solaris and FP started to die before S7 was even deployed..... It imploded and the exploded anti-social players kept on pushing.............. OK, at that point, entire teams started leaving...... ENTIRE TEAMS.... You need to assimilate that fact. They were driven off.... And yes, MM never worked. And Yes, FP, was only a shell of what it was suppose to be..... But, had everyone worked together, instead of seeing whom could do the most damage, we'd not be in this low population situation where the future may just be MW5 because PGI shuts this mode down..... I don't think so, but, there sure aren't very many people left....

Kid, I'm flattered. And, we can agree to disagree......

[Asym]

Horseman, on 13 June 2019 - 12:26 AM, said:

So you want your opponents to throw games for you?

No, never even implied that. Come on, let's be real here..... What was is gone. What's left are a small scattering of people who love this game and many of us, have played them all from day 1.

We and I like Faction Play before the Skill tree Change. We played it all of the time and "average" players.... We had a blast ! Heck, we ran practice sessions, talked about tactics (since I am an old horse soldier), and had trials to see whom would play on whose teams in FP..... We were that involved.

I and the team expected tough battles.......and, for a while, we had a blast.... Then, it got really, seriously dark... After a month +, that was it..... The threats, the anti-social behaviors, and TK's drove us off......

We can disagree and I'd fight or play with any of you.....a snowflake I am not.....

[Asym]

Lykaon, on 12 June 2019 - 11:28 PM, said:

Let me get this straight,you expect anyone who has actually done research to believe you are capable of research?

If you place the blame on players for playing a game instead of possibly the faults inherent within a game you are lacking in the impartial thought process that is absolutely a necessity to complete effective research in the hows and whys of game development failure.

Have you actually convinced yourself that there was something about MWo that attracted only the most vile and sociopathic players who also happen to possess the superior skills in MWo to systematically drive away any non aberrant player base.

Or is it more likely that PGI failed to create appropriate mechanics to scale the difficultly of the opposition to meet the skill levels of the less proficient players?

Stop conducting a witch hunt to fill the criteria of your hypothosis and start using an impartial and scientific method to conduct "research" . Or at the very least try to be logical.

You're basically saying that if a player played the game as it was presented and succeeded they were toxic and if a player attempted to play the game as presented but failed they were victimized by the former group and chased off.

Now doesn't that sound kinda...well silly.

Ok, since there is no hard data available, a peer reviewed project simply can't happen.....

And, using forums for researching why unique, small niche markets with incredible IP's fail, is a really good endeavor and lays out, for new game producers what works or does not work. Harvard Business School has some really great video game articles and the super games are usually studied. This game and LoL are a great comparison when comparing corporate methodologies..... You can have a great game and still fail because you failed to "study history..." And Forums, are history....

I've retired from all that and happily now write about video games and play a lot of games as a hobby (when I'm not on a rifle range testing ammunition......another part-time/sometime job I do for free !)

We agree to disagree; and, my conclusions are no more fact based than the rest of the articles I read everyday.....in this game and a dozen others..... What I think and have said in the past has come true: you reap what you sow.....and, here we are, the three or four of us not agreeing.....

[Wil McCullough]

Asym, on 13 June 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

You are so funny ! Kid........I wish. I don't "hate" anything.... You do understand cause and effect, right? this isn't hate: several groups of players got a bit out of control and terrorized a mode of play...... At the same time, PGI decided that they needed to head another direction because the FP side of the house wasn't producing the income they wanted..... The then shifted gears to Solaris and FP started to die before S7 was even deployed..... It imploded and the exploded anti-social players kept on pushing.............. OK, at that point, entire teams started leaving...... ENTIRE TEAMS.... You need to assimilate that fact. They were driven off.... And yes, MM never worked. And Yes, FP, was only a shell of what it was suppose to be..... But, had everyone worked together, instead of seeing whom could do the most damage, we'd not be in this low population situation where the future may just be MW5 because PGI shuts this mode down..... I don't think so, but, there sure aren't very many people left....

Kid, I'm flattered. And, we can agree to disagree......

Don't be stupid. You're calling players toxic because they try to win in a game built om team vs team competition. The only difference between these "toxic" players and yourself is that they succeed at winning much more than yourself.

I call you kid because you're acting immature af. Stamping your feet demanding wins like you're entitled to them. Doesn't change the fact that you're salty because you're just as competitive as the next guy and you're pissed off because they're winning and you're not.

You're jealous. That is what your entire argument boils down to.

Demand a better mm from pgi but don't be an idiot and demand that players better than.yourself handicap themselves to allow you a real chance of winning. How much handicap do you want anyway? Juju literally has a video of himself using his foot to play and he still outperformed your average match score. Are players his caliber literally supposed to play with their feet and with their monitor off everytime they drop? Just so that you have a chance to win against them? Does proton have to press keys on his keyboard with his nose? What do they have to ******* do to not be considered toxic to you?

[Novakaine]

can·non fod·der
/ˈkanən ˈfädər/
noun
Soldiers regarded merely as material to be expended in war.
"They ended up serving as cannon fodder in war X"

And people got tired of being just that and went buh bye.
Matchmaker has ever been and continues to be the problem.
DDO does it right I think.
I can't take my 3th level Cleric into a dungeon for 12th level players.
Two different game types I know, but it works.

[Lykaon]

Novakaine, on 13 June 2019 - 10:09 PM, said:

can·non fod·der
/ˈkanən ˈfädər/
noun
Soldiers regarded merely as material to be expended in war.
"They ended up serving as cannon fodder in war X"

And people got tired of being just that and went buh bye.
Matchmaker has ever been and continues to be the problem.
DDO does it right I think.
I can't take my 3th level Cleric into a dungeon for 12th level players.
Two different game types I know, but it works.

Yep this right here is one of the core issues.Players are not toxic because they play the game as it is presented. Players who succeed over others playing within an identical set of parameters are not toxic.

Players become frustrated when the game presents them with what seems like a series of no win scenarios when matched against superior organization or superior abilities or sometimes both,well that can lead to some serious resentment and due to the nature of a PvP game where an adversary is clearly given it is easy for some players to direct this frustration at the other players who are succeeding where they are failing.

This is toxic because it does a couple of things.

Firstly it places the blame at the feet of people who are not responsible for the circumstances that caused the frustrations that become aimed at the "winners". These players were given a game,they played this game and they were successful at this game. To them they were only playing a game as it was presented.

The Secondary effect is the successful players being called "toxic,farming,clubbing,mean kids" kinda feel like what the heck I was just playing why are "they" such cry babies" and in turn this becomes toxic as a counter to assumed toxicity.

At it's core the game developers created a set of circumstances that ends up turning the community toxic towards it's self.

[eminus]

I am still salty about that stupid Nightstar (which was my last mech pack), still supports MWO via other sales like MC purchase. I also try to introduce this game to my friends with a big caveat on "DONT BUY THE STUPID NIGHTSTAR"

[Asym]

Wil McCullough, on 13 June 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

Don't be stupid. You're calling players toxic because they try to win in a game built om team vs team competition. The only difference between these "toxic" players and yourself is that they succeed at winning much more than yourself.

I call you kid because you're acting immature af. Stamping your feet demanding wins like you're entitled to them. Doesn't change the fact that you're salty because you're just as competitive as the next guy and you're pissed off because they're winning and you're not.

You're jealous. That is what your entire argument boils down to.

Demand a better mm from pgi but don't be an idiot and demand that players better than.yourself handicap themselves to allow you a real chance of winning. How much handicap do you want anyway? Juju literally has a video of himself using his foot to play and he still outperformed your average match score. Are players his caliber literally supposed to play with their feet and with their monitor off everytime they drop? Just so that you have a chance to win against them? Does proton have to press keys on his keyboard with his nose? What do they have to ******* do to not be considered toxic to you?

Jealous of what? It's a game ! And, a small niche game at that.... As I have said before, all we wanted were game that were challenging, fun and civil....... And yes, we played against all of the best players in this game and when our team saw specific players, we focused on them first ! They were that good !

What changed was a small group of players went too far with the concept of "winning and being GuD..." Those individual and a few organized teams went down the dark path and made the environment "just not fun anymore..." And, the game itself has an identity crisis at the same time that even further made the game "outright strange...."

The physical threats (and, they were reported), toxic language (again, reported to the game); and in game play massively digressing with nerf'd systems, drove us and a lot more out-of-this-game..... Gone, in less than a year. Less than a year.....after playing the same game for several....

So, you are free to call me whatever names you want, it's really OK....... But, wouldn't you really want the 80 or so players that were on the teams I participated with back in the game more??? We were not alone; and, it's 80 times x.....now, it's a shell waiting for another game change (MW5) and we aren't buying that game until the reviews come in.....

I wish you good luck and good hunting !

Edited by Asym, 14 June 2019 - 06:20 AM.

[Asym]

Lykaon, on 14 June 2019 - 05:56 AM, said:

The Secondary effect is the successful players being called "toxic,farming,clubbing,mean kids" kinda feel like what the heck I was just playing why are "they" such cry babies" and in turn this becomes toxic as a counter to assumed toxicity.

At it's core the game developers created a set of circumstances that ends up turning the community toxic towards it's self.

you are correct. In the end game of FP, the survivors went to the Spawn points and did one of two things: offered individual battles to end the game (those with the lowest scores got to fight the spawning enemy); or, the spawning were just slaughtered and when a few of us suggested otherwise, we were TK'd and chastised for being.........pick a term....

A small example of players "just playing the game as presented"......... Some of us wanted a quality resolution and others did what ever they could do to win...... It was when "trying to do the right thing" caused some "teams," if they were going to win a match, do things at the spawn point that were not only reported but, were seriously, anti-social; and, those bad behaviors migrated out of FP.... We had this angst follow all of us into QP, where we'd be TK'd or constantly harassed because we stood up for new players or spawning players... Yes, they were all "playing the game..." But, it's how you play the game that really matters AND, where are we now? Who actions were right?

So, here we are and as the saying goes; "history writes of what worked and what failed......"

[Corbon Zackery]

The fight for a real time in game clock still continues. Its been 7 years and I still have to look at my tablet by my computer to see what time it is in the real world.

Do you know how many new gamers we would get a week if we had a in game clock.

We have done everything using free marketing like twitch and you tube to promote the game.

PGI made the most customizable FPS robot game on the market.
I alone have 317 mech to chose from to play (320 by the 18th)

Look at some of the other games:
Titanfall 1/2: gone servers empty

Few others on the market not even talked about.

This is were you go to get your robot stomp everyday.

Even with the Russ news were still 4,000 a day strong.

The issue is after 7 years PGI can't just rely on MechWarrior online for revenue. So full team production is now on MechWarrior 5. A small team of 5 people are running MWO for the next 6 months they are focusing most of that time on community warfare patches.

Once MechWarrior 5 is released then PGI can look at options.
Do we go back to MWO or do we do DCL Faction content for MechWarrior 5
Do we shift now to Areotech.
PGI wants to get into the MMO market MechWarrior RPG might be the way to do it.
They also could do a partnership with Harebrained Schemes to use the Shadowrun turn based system to produce a single story MechWarrior RPG.

A lot of options they need MechWarrior 5 to be the golden nugget that they can build off of.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 14 June 2019 - 08:33 AM.

[Novakaine]

[Dimento Graven]

Novakaine, on 14 June 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

LOL, I love that pic, and I'm pretty damned sure it's from Empyrion - Galactic Survival (another game I love)...