98 replies to this topic

[Feral Clown]

John McClintock, on 13 July 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

I'm still figuring this game out. My past gaming was only vs computers and MWO is a whole new thing.

I feel people are stuck on what they think is the best way, and maybe they are right, Maybe not.

Why do people feel so threatened when the paradigm is questioned?

Are you going to burn me at the virtual stake for making people ask questions, or forcing you all to justify your "rules for building"?

I know I've posted some unique builds, a lot of them probably. Are there really teams that keep their builds secret? I Can see not wanting the enemy to farm you knowing your team always uses weak leg armor, or something like that. How does that help the community though? Why not welcome discussion, maybe we can progress in knowledge and not just be stuck in the same old rut.

I posted a mixed loadout build in another thread and everybody loses their minds, lol. mixing streaks and srms on one mech and lasers too!?!?! "omg, ban him!" Few seem to be able to acknowledge the utility of a mixed loadout.

They act like if you aren't only using SRMS, you are tarded, yet ignore the massive utility streaks have for dealing with some of the most dangerous mechs in the game.... fast lights.

My Jarl's list has been posted, y'all see I'm a light pilot, and a "still learning" light pilot at that.

I speak from personal experience. Streaks scare the hell out of me. Especially streak boats.

I got took out by a 3x srm+a assassin yesterday, I got up in his grill, 100 meters away and danced without masc. HE LEGGED ME. Nice shooting, Tex.

If I would have kept my distance, I think it would have turned out differently. Maybe I should have brought masc, too. But by far the biggest problem in that fight was me. I got caught up in the moment and rushed in, like I usually do, to dance (and test him and me). but SRMs are very dangerous at close range, high dps, just enough spread to help get hits. They are like shotguns. I love shotguns.

I'm not debating the utility of SRMs. Some people seem to think that Streaks have no utility. I believe the test results show they do have utility.

My latest cyclops variant has 2LPPC, Tag, BAP, 3xStreak6, 4xStreak2, ~4 tons ammo. I figure the PPC can harass at range, and deactivate stealth for my streaks, if needed. No ghost heat too. Sadly it's a bit slow to get into good positions, but when lights show up they don't hang out.

Overall after playing a few matches, I think a streak boat cyclops isn't the best use of the chassis. Unless in a team and having a specific role. Sure it deletes lights, but they have to get close enough and if they actually see your loadout, they run away.

At this point I figure a streak boat/light hunter needs to be a little on the faster side, otherwise lights will just easily avoid you and attack other members of your team.

I think the issue is you are challenging people and appearing to be trying to come across as some sort of expert, and then the snarky math remark. If you understand maths well enough than first thing is you don't have enough time in them for those stats to really mean anything. Then put it into context of overall performance. Then questioning the aim of others, and I am kinda lost cause it seems you were saying that streaks are better because of hit rate.....

And who is saying the Cyclops streak meme is a proper light hunter? I mean it has a role for giggles against base rushers in incursion and it can be made to work in quick play...but who is actually saying that it is a light hunter? Don't listen to them. You are absolutely right that a streak light hunter should be much faster, which is why those roles are generally filled by Streak Stormcrow or Bushwackers. Arctic wolves work as well as Huntsman and Kintaro's but the best is the two previously mentioned cause, guess what? You already guessed it, speed.

From your response above too I am at a loss on why if you are learning the game, why are you sciencing the meta? Would it not make sense to get a good grasp on builds and playstyles first? As intelligent as you may or may not be you have to take a step back and think before you reinvent the wheel, it'd be wise to appreciate folks experience and thousands of hours of playtime.

[John McClintock]

There's about 4 thread going right now where the supposed experts can't seem to decide whether streak are totally lame they should never even be used, or whether they need nerfed because they are God Mode.

If the supposed experts can't agree, how can you say the science is settled?

[Feral Clown]

John McClintock, on 14 July 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

There's about 4 thread going right now where the supposed experts can't seem to decide whether streak are totally lame they should never even be used, or whether they need nerfed because they are God Mode.

If the supposed experts can't agree, how can you say the science is settled?

Ok, well let be first to say I am not an expert in the game.

I do however play with some of the most recognisable and proficient players in the game and I lean heavily on their experience, work in the mechlab and testing grounds, and testing on private servers.

I appreciate the work Tarrogato and all of the top guys he's gone out and gathered as well as the discussions and science going on at the GrimMechs Hub discord. Navid A1, Bows3r and denAirwalkerrr are also a few notable sources of information and have respectively contributed a good deal to the community in builds and testing.

On the two accts that use for quick play currently I am ranked in the 97th and 98th percentile respectively. I'd argue that while that doesn't mean I am actually in those percentiles with a notable dip last season in IS acct being 92ish for the season and avg ms of 310 (Clan I fared better at 355 during same period) I think I can at the very least make a solid argument that I am competent at the game if not perhaps a bit better than average.

So that is how I will qualify that for you. Someone who has a good deal of experience/success in the game who is dialed into the community and has relied on the many, many hours of science put in by the ubernerds of the game.

As far as your question and the debating and the experting? My understanding from the people I respect the most is that streaks are currently too effective against lights and not very good or effective against anything else. My experience as a player, is that they are a very low skill ceiling weapon to use that obliterates lights very easily. Worth noting is that I have extensive amounts of time using lights and fast mediums which are the most vulnerable to streaks, and I also have a very high amount of seat time using streaks.

Saying that, streak Cyclops or putting streaks on an Orion or Spirit Bear is stupid. Those mechs by the nature of not being light hunters and that streaks are not as good as srms against everything not light are my reasoning. Streak Bushwacker or Stromcrow however are excellent in the role of light hunter using streaks mostly due to their speed, but are not as good at heavier targets, but can still help sandblast armor, they just don't have the carrying potential they would if the they were srms.

A couple of further points to consider. Although streaks have a high hit %, they spread in an uncontrolled way. A mech with two cherry red legs may or may not take a couple or a few shots with streaks as a bunch of your volley's will be hitting other components, while srms you can aim at those legs and have a much better chance of finishing that mech off with less shooting. Second is that this spread characteristic isn't nearly as big an issue against lights because the sheer volume/output is such that they are the only mechs vulnerable to being completely gibbled by an alpha.

Now all that said, what I personally feel is that the lock on mechanic is far, far too easy which makes them unreasonably good against lights. The only challenge I personally have is against really high end light pilots (who will generally only engage you if you are occupied with another target or will skillfully backstab you to death), or stealth mech which I enjoy using tag to try and lock in that sweetspot, especially IS side where range is short.

Am as well of the opinion that in quick play, it washes out due to being only good at one role so in that environment I don't really think of it as something that should be really focused on or is over powered. Last wave of a tight CW game it's the opposite, and is an overly punishing hard counter to lights. So in the end making them harder to use would be better for lights to have a chance in those environments and wouldn't be overly harsh for those using them in quick play.

Edited by Feral Clown, 14 July 2019 - 09:51 PM.

[Prototelis]

John McClintock, on 14 July 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

There's about 4 thread going right now where the supposed experts can't seem to decide whether streak are totally lame they should never even be used, or whether they need nerfed because they are God Mode.

If the supposed experts can't agree, how can you say the science is settled?

They are both lame and bad. How is that hard to understand?

[Kubernetes]

John McClintock, on 14 July 2019 - 08:19 PM, said:

There's about 4 thread going right now where the supposed experts can't seem to decide whether streak are totally lame they should never even be used, or whether they need nerfed because they are God Mode.

If the supposed experts can't agree, how can you say the science is settled?

You're right, instead of actually paying attention to who is saying what, just lump all opinions together as irrelevant and trust your own inexperience. You play primarily lights, Streaks scare you, thus Streaks must be incredibly powerful. Because Streaks are killing you, surely the answer is to run Streaks yourself. Brilliant. Carry on.

[John McClintock]

Streaks being so niche i don't see the need to nerf them. Even in faction. So they are a hard counter to lights? You are going to alter the entire game's mechanics just for one game mode? Maybe end game faction y'all should save a few heavies? 87 D chess.

[Prototelis]

Why should the easiest to use weapon in the game counter the core gameplay of the least played lowest performing class in the game?

[Kubernetes]

John McClintock, on 15 July 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Streaks being so niche i don't see the need to nerf them. Even in faction. So they are a hard counter to lights? You are going to alter the entire game's mechanics just for one game mode? Maybe end game faction y'all should save a few heavies? 87 D chess.

If anything IS streaks need help.

Oh, really, save tonnage for the last drop in FW? Wow, no one has ever thought of such a brilliant move. How much FW have you played? God you're a clown.

Edited by Kubernetes, 15 July 2019 - 12:46 PM.

[John McClintock]

Kubernetes, on 15 July 2019 - 12:45 PM, said:

If anything IS streaks need help.

Oh, really, save tonnage for the last drop in FW? Wow, no one has ever thought of such a brilliant move. How much FW have you played? God you're a clown.

Simply pointing out the easy solution to "Oh noes streak boats are killing all the lights at end of faction play therefor they need nerfed" argument which was posted earlier.

I've played a handful of faction games, Enough to notice that lights do tend to dominate end game.

I also play a LOT of lights, if I'm ok with streaks as is... they need neither buff nor debuff, IMHO.

What's wrong, is someone showing up with a streak cyclops at the end and you forgot to pepper your angus steak?

Thought you had the Meta figured out and someone is making you lose cause you can't change your tactics? Oh noes!

"Meta" is nothing more than the "best build" for a certain "playing style".

It's definitely not the "end all be all" of building, because as I've seen said many times in my SHORT time here... "the meta changes".

Lights are already buffed against target locks.

Start carrying ER medium lasers on your lights, then streak boats can't touch you.

[Feral Clown]

John McClintock, on 15 July 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Streaks being so niche i don't see the need to nerf them. Even in faction. So they are a hard counter to lights? You are going to alter the entire game's mechanics just for one game mode? Maybe end game faction y'all should save a few heavies? 87 D chess.

LOL. Ok dude. How much CW have you done and who with?

Yes, make them harder to lock with because currently they're too easy to use and too effective to boot.

If you actually understood CW, you'd probably not have asked that question because you would understand that there is a tonnage difference in place. Also saving heavies for last in the vast majority of situations is really, really stupid and having one or two left over doesn't do much if you are able to insta gibble all the other mechs left besides those heavies.

1 million gazzilion Janga. See you are not playing an advanced game over peoples understanding or head if you are talking about something you have no success or experience with.

Edited by Feral Clown, 15 July 2019 - 07:43 PM.

[Lethe Wyvern]

John McClintock, on 15 July 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Maybe end game faction y'all should save a few heavies? 87 D chess.

John McClintock, on 15 July 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

What's wrong, is someone showing up with a streak cyclops at the end and you forgot to pepper your angus steak?

Damn, i miss old ye times when you gonna be kicked for taking assault in 2nd drop instead of 1st, and here we are. So this is how present CW looks like?

[John McClintock]

So you are sad because someone is bringing streaks and wiping the floor with your lights in end game faction play?

Here is an idea, change your tactics.

I swear I was just reading here how hardly anybody plays faction, and you want to make changes to the whole game, just cause you can't adapt to a new tactic?

[Feral Clown]

John McClintock, on 15 July 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

So you are sad because someone is bringing streaks and wiping the floor with your lights in end game faction play?

Here is an idea, change your tactics.

I swear I was just reading here how hardly anybody plays faction, and you want to make changes to the whole game, just cause you can't adapt to a new tactic?

LOL you are a thick one aren't you. When CW had an actual active population lots and lots of tactics were hashed out. You are literally talking nonsense about something you clearly know absolutely nothing about.

Edited by Feral Clown, 15 July 2019 - 09:55 PM.

[John McClintock]

Adapt and overcome. Tactics change. Sounds like you need to reevaluate your "meta".

[Prototelis]

lol. Dropping an assault last wave isn't "adapting" its a bad tactic.

3d chess.

[Kubernetes]

Lmao. Streak Cyclops as last drop. Adapt.

[Prototelis]

Kubernetes, on 16 July 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

Adapt.

3d chess

[Kubernetes]

11D Parcheesi

[Prototelis]

12D Uno

[BackShot]

You guys should stop trying to make this guy understand something, this is obviously a fail. Just let him think he is smarter than the others and maybe he will understand some things with time. Maybe.