128 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

The6thMessenger, on 28 July 2019 - 12:48 AM, said:

That's ********. I mean, sure gating games is like monopoly, but that's not exactly the same with steam to be "a different skin".

Steam earns it's borderline-monopoly because it's a good platform with good service to customers, EGS is NEITHER, and once the exclusivity deal has expired, everyone will flock back to Steam and further validate it's borderline-monopoly.

In a technical sense you are right.
Let me call it "Monopoly on Time" Maybe that names it better.
Everyone knows that the big Money in the game Industrie is made very early in the Lifetime of a game and EPIC monopolizes the most fruitful income phase of the games release.
Also, you do not own the game, you only own acces to the Installation files and the ability to start the game up as long they do not revoke these Access, ability from you for any reason they see fit.

In that regard EPIC and Steam are completely similar and offline play is nothing offesetting that compared to GOG where you realy own the games files and can download and store them for as long there is a Computer able to store, install and execute at your will which is probably for the whole of your lifetime and beyond.

So i stand by what i meant to say.

PS; I speak of Games that can be played as Singleplayer or local Multipayer, not of MMOs of course.

Edited by Thorqemada, 28 July 2019 - 07:22 AM.

[Void Angel]

Bud Crue, on 28 July 2019 - 05:06 AM, said:

Not suprised, as much as confused. I get the anger toward PGI/Russ for the whole EPIC betrayal in regard to MW5, I just don't see why that of all things would be the "last straw" for leaving MWO.

Well, to play devil's advocate, the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back" indicates a small event that just pushed the whole situation over into "no-ville." So the Epic store isn't necessarily seen as some huge deal that's unforgivable in its own right, but rather just the latest addition to a long litany of abuses that tipped the scales over to "not worth it any more."

That being said, a lot of the "we're such True Fans that we just suffered for SO LONG without having any fun just in the hope that Someday, we'd have Battletech again" narrative is a load of self-aggrandizing road apples. There have been problems with the game, from the netcode, to faction play, and so on - but it's important to separate fact from egotistic hyperbole. None of us are Tiny Tim sent to Oliver Twist's orphanage with PGI yelling, "More? MORE?!" Frankly, I'd like to see a lot more voting with their feet - and fewer screaming fits to the tune of "It's a Hard Knocks Life."

DarkDevilDancer, on 28 July 2019 - 06:45 AM, said:

Exclusives are not competition, it's the exact opposite you are trying to force customers onto your store it's not good for customers at all.

I'll be getting a refund and i'll never again give PGI a penny of my money.

Not quite; exclusives are absolutely competition - but they're a way for competition between platforms. You're trying to induce people to get on your platform so you can expose them to your other games and advertising while reducing their exposure to your competitors; this isn't terribly good for us, I think - direct competition is much better, which is why I refuse to buy into things like CBS All Access. And I'm not trying to convince you to reconsider. But it is competition, just inefficient and fraught with annoyances for the customer.

I remember when I didn't have to pull up a fracking launcher just to play...
https://youtu.be/UpO...X-nUm-tR-&t=618

Edited by Void Angel, 28 July 2019 - 12:34 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

I don't trust him any more than you, I just don't see why someone, anyone, who's put up with all of his crap over tge years and has been enjoying MWO to at least some extent, would now decide that this latest "lie", which has nothing to do with MWO, would be the last straw to drive one from continuing to play MWO.

Easy... less players in the playerbase means a dwindling product. It also means I'm less likely to be tempted to spend more money on the game [something I haven't done since the Warhammer/Marauder mechs came out, but there are mechs I wouldn't mind picking up still.]

And I have to take a stand somewhere, considering I'm keeping my pre-order, the only other way I can really rebel against this decision, is to stop playing MWO. As it is I've been sinking my time into Dead by Daylight as of late.

It may not make sense to you ever, but it doesn't have to, As Android's 17 and 18 say in Dragon Ball Abridged "It might be a bad decision, but it's mine to make."

[The6thMessenger]

Thorqemada, on 28 July 2019 - 07:08 AM, said:

In that regard EPIC and Steam are completely similar and offline play is nothing offesetting that compared to GOG where you realy own the games files and can download and store them for as long there is a Computer able to store, install and execute at your will which is probably for the whole of your lifetime and beyond.

So i stand by what i meant to say.

Except one's actually better at it.

[Kotzi]

Void Angel, on 28 July 2019 - 12:22 PM, said:

...Not quite; exclusives are absolutely competition - but they're a way for competition between platforms....
https://youtu.be/UpO...X-nUm-tR-&t=618

No its not, by definition.
https://en.wikipedia...itive_practices
It creats a barrier to entry for the competitors

[Void Angel]

Argument by definition never goes well when you're too careless to read your own definition. Selling to customers from an exclusive platform isn't listed on your Wikipedia list - and there's a reason wikipedia isn't a strong source to begin with.

Edited by Void Angel, 29 July 2019 - 01:08 AM.

[Horseman]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 06:22 AM, said:

But what I don't get from a lot of the posts I am seeing is that this is making some of the longest term players assert that not only will this result in them not purchasing MW5 but also that they are "done" with MWO as well. Why?

Utter disgust with PGI's bait and switch and a need to distance themselves from anything that reminds them of that event? Or perhaps they finally ran out of any good will for PGI?

Quote

I mean of all the crap that has been done to this game over the years why is this the thing that has finally driven you to leave MWO?

Or this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 July 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

I gotta question to. Why does Epic make it "exclusive"? Is it because they know that if they dont add that "exclusive" crap to games put on their site, that no one will ever use Epic?

Got it in one.

Epic has a worse platform, worse policies and worse service than Steam. Hostageware is their only way of attracting customers, and since some **** dissuades people from trying Epic even for exclusives they choose to pull this bait and switch crap just so that customers who already paid for the game only have a choice between coming to Epic's platform or refunding. They're gambling on people being indifferent, unaware of the issues with their platform or simply finding out too late.

This kind of practices should be opposed on principle alone.

[Prototelis]

lol hostageware, thats a new one.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 29 July 2019 - 01:16 AM, said:

lol hostageware, thats a new one.

That's just mountain out of a mole-hill. We literally have something called "ransom-ware", and it's a way more serious issue.


It's just "bloatware" or just "shitware.

[Kotzi]

Void Angel, on 29 July 2019 - 01:08 AM, said:

Argument by definition never goes well when you're too careless to read your own definition. Selling to customers from an exclusive platform isn't listed on your Wikipedia list - and there's a reason wikipedia isn't a strong source to begin with.

You for real? Its litteraly stated there. You wont find the exact mentioning of Epic and Eclusivedeal of course but you a lawyer?

[Prototelis]

I think you're reaching; that article doesn't really describe what we're talking about when we talk about exclusive releases on game platforms.

Anti-consumerism is actually a really broad topic. While exclusives aren't really anti-consumer, they aren't exactly pro-consumer either.

Edited by Prototelis, 29 July 2019 - 01:35 AM.

[Kotzi]

Game selling Platform, Retailer. Game/Software, Product. Developer, Producer You wont find any law stating this new concepts of course but that doesnt make them FFA. It does not matter if the product is real or virtual your rights are covered with the law of the country you live in.

Just because something isnt exactly named in the law doesnt make it automatically legal. Take Lootboxes. They were ok because those who made profit with them said so. Now that the attention has shifted towards them it seems they are not that ok in the first place. I wonder what canadian law says about exclusive deals in their competition act if the attention would really be brought to those deals.

[Prototelis]

I think you need to re-read that article.

Edit: Lootboxes aren't really related to the subject just because they happen to be in games. The reason why they're legally dubious is because its gambling. Gambling isn't legal everywhere. That has nothing to do with anti-competitive practices.

A game being exclusive to a platform doesn't stop someone from developing a similar or competing product on another platform.

Edited by Prototelis, 29 July 2019 - 02:06 AM.

[BROARL]

i grew up feeding coins to a machine to play games, paying to play is second nature to me.
i enjoy BattleTech games and pretending im a MechWarrior so when im baked im playing.
my desire is for massive PvP and my frustration is as frequently directed at the community as at PGI.
im pragmatic about EPIC, some things are bad some things are good, all day. that happens.
im not sore about being lied to because ive never believed it anyway, ill be content if i can shoot stuff before xmas.
honestly im just dissapointed MWO isnt bigger than, say war robots and some of the other garbage out there, because there was once a time when it could have been but old mate appears to have screwed it over hard. again and again. it happened, itll happen again no doubt.
hopefully the lurms in mech5 have been thoroughly tested by now and we will still have a game to cry about next year...

Edited by BROARL, 29 July 2019 - 02:22 AM.

[Horseman]

Prototelis, on 29 July 2019 - 01:16 AM, said:

lol hostageware, thats a new one.

It's been coined some three years ago on /r/pcmasterrace .
https://www.urbandic...erm=hostageware

Quote

A console-exclusive video game whose sole reason for exclusivity is to force consumers to buy a certain console by acting as a "hostage" of that console. Applies primarily to third-party titles that could otherwise have been sold as multiplatform

Now by definition it's meant to apply to console exclusives... but fits quite well to what Epic is doing.

Edited by Horseman, 29 July 2019 - 02:25 AM.

[NextGame]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 06:22 AM, said:

So PGI went EPIC exclusive for MW5. I get that some who claim that the promised STEAM key was a key determinate for pre-order are upset by the switch, and as such feel justified for getting a refund. Same for all the folks who feel that EPIC is evil or dodgy, or just not a platform they want to deal with. Fine. No MW5 for all of you, no money for PGI from you.

But what I don't get from a lot of the posts I am seeing is that this is making some of the longest term players assert that not only will this result in them not purchasing MW5 but also that they are "done" with MWO as well. Why? You got all the MWO goodies for free now that you got your refund, so what is the problem with MWO? Is it suddenly no fun? Did it finally occur to you that PGI doesn't care about you? Do you think not playing a dying free game is going to punish them for the perceived wrong of how they are handling MW5? I mean of all the crap that has been done to this game over the years why is this the thing that has finally driven you to leave MWO?

Just curious.

I left ages ago, just came here to read the drama

PGI care about neither their customers or their products, it just becomes more obvious to people each time this merry-go-round spins.

I’m glad I didn’t pre order mw5 as, even though I have an EGS account, at this rate I will have no one to play with if I ever buy the game.

Edited by NextGame, 29 July 2019 - 02:27 AM.

[Prototelis]

Horseman, on 29 July 2019 - 02:25 AM, said:

It's been coined some three years ago on /r/pcmasterrace .
https://www.urbandic...erm=hostageware
Now by definition it's meant to apply to console exclusives... but fits quite well to what Epic is doing.

Cool story.

Its still dumb lol.

[Kotzi]

Prototelis, on 29 July 2019 - 02:00 AM, said:

I think you need to re-read that article.

Edit: Lootboxes aren't really related to the subject just because they happen to be in games. The reason why they're legally dubious is because its gambling. Gambling isn't legal everywhere. That has nothing to do with anti-competitive practices.

A game being exclusive to a platform doesn't stop someone from developing a similar or competing product on another platform.

1. Completely missed the analogy.
2. The example does not touch the point at all.
Nice try to change the topic, but distortion of competition with econimic means has little to do with IP and its protection.

[Horseman]

Prototelis, on 29 July 2019 - 02:27 AM, said:

Cool story.
Its still dumb lol.

The shoe fits. Problem?

[Void Angel]

Kotzi, on 29 July 2019 - 01:24 AM, said:

You for real? Its litteraly stated there. You wont find the exact mentioning of Epic and Eclusivedeal of course but you a lawyer?

Nope, it's not there. You might want to read your own source more carefully - you are definitely not a lawyer.