140 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

The biggest problem with solaris was the lack of a free for all gamemode.

Why PGI ever thought PUGs would want to play 1v1 and 2v2 is beyond me. Creating an expansion that isnt geared towards the biggest crossection of players makes absolutely no sense.

[Nesutizale]

If you are talking about getting new people into Solaris that didn't played MWO before, yes haveing something that appeals to the players of other games would have been usefull.

[Depressing-Fire]

*laughs from ejection captule*

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 03 September 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

they also couldve fixed group queue. a lot of new players quit because they cant play in small casual groups with 1-2 other friends without getting mercilessly stomped.

As has been explained to you many times that fix revolves around properly assessing players. You having a tier one badge means as a casual and the self appointed champion of all the casuals, you'd have dragged everybody you tried to introduce into 3 even when we had better population numbers.

Also from experience being bad and new, the bigger your badish/newish group was back three years ago (*prob longer come to think of it) or so, the better off you were. When in HHoD we got out buts kicked a bunch in quick play, but we also won a lot. If you had been able to make friends in game your experience would have been different as a terribad with low game understanding.

Edited by Feral Clown, 03 September 2019 - 03:22 AM.

[Khobai]

Feral Clown, on 03 September 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

As has been explained to you many times that fix revolves around properly assessing players.

No lol. A game like MWO doesnt have a large enough player population to draw on for a matchmaker to actually work. That hasnt been a workable solution for a long time. Maybe like 5 years ago it wouldve worked.

A matchmaker is based on the premise of player skill following a predictable bellcurve. But when your population levels are low you cant populate every point of that bellcurve with enough players to make it work. You wont be able to find even matchups for players on either extremity of the bellcurve. Or you have to have release valves that let players play other players outside their skill brackets which defeats the purpose of having a matchmaker in the first place.

Implementing a matchmaker when your population is low actually causes more harm than good because it divides the small number of players you have into more buckets that cant play eachother. Which results in matches not being found or extremely long queue times at best. PGI tried separate queues with faction play and it failed miserably because they had players spread across way too many buckets.

Fixing group queue for the current state of the game actually requires a completely different approach.

Feral Clown, on 03 September 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

Also from experience being bad and new, the bigger your badish/newish group was back three years ago (*prob longer come to think of it) or so, the better off you were. When in HHoD we got out buts kicked a bunch in quick play, but we also won a lot. If you had been able to make friends in game your experience would have been different as a terribad with low game understanding.

And yet your experience doesnt coincide with the experience of most other people who play this game. In other words you are completely out of touch with the majority of people who play the game. PGI has posted statistics and most of the people who play are solo players or play in groups of 1-2. The number of people who play in large groups or units is actually less than 5%. As much as you try to tell people they should join groups/units the fact is 95% wont. The difference between you and me is that you think those 95% are in the wrong.

The game not being receptive to new players or casual players is the #1 reason for its decline. And one of the big problems is that groups/units get too much free reign to pugstomp in gamemodes outside quickplay. And while normally a functional matchmaker would be a potential solution to that, its not a solution in the current low population state of the game.

Not that the game can really be saved at this point anyway so even discussing it is kindve pointless.

Edited by Khobai, 03 September 2019 - 03:46 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 03 September 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

The biggest problem with solaris was the lack of a free for all gamemode.

Why PGI ever thought PUGs would want to play 1v1 and 2v2 is beyond me. Creating an expansion that isnt geared towards the biggest crossection of players makes absolutely no sense.

Wow I almost sort of agree. 24 man free for all was what I wanted. Barring that I had hoped the classes would be done by weight because I personally wanted light/med battles not this rock/paper/scissor weird meta model we got.

Only thing though is that stealth mechs in that situation combined with the inability to rate people properly would have been cancer.

Khobai, on 03 September 2019 - 03:24 AM, said:

No lol. A game like MWO does not have a large enough player population to draw on for a matchmaker to actually work. That hasnt been a workable solution for a long time.

You are 100% wrong and completely so. You arguing that just further highlights your ignorance and incapability to understand. It is an unassailable fact the PSR system is insanely upwardly biased. Your being in tier one is prime example of this. Even in a small population where there were a 1000 people playing concurrently, a proper rating system would have been huge.

Not really surprising you can't grasp this.

Edited by Feral Clown, 03 September 2019 - 03:33 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Khobai, on 03 September 2019 - 03:24 AM, said:

No lol. A game like MWO doesnt have a large enough player population to draw on for a matchmaker to actually work. That hasnt been a workable solution for a long time. Maybe like 5 years ago it wouldve worked.

How about you stop your clueless BS? ... The player population MM needs to actually work is 24. Not 24k, just 24.
Math OP, plz learn it.

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 03 September 2019 - 03:24 AM, said:

No lol. A game like MWO doesnt have a large enough player population to draw on for a matchmaker to actually work. That hasnt been a workable solution for a long time. Maybe like 5 years ago it wouldve worked.

A matchmaker is based on the premise of player skill following a predictable bellcurve. But when your population levels are low you cant populate every point of that bellcurve with enough players to make it work. You wont be able to find even matchups for players on either extremity of the bellcurve. Or you have to have release valves that let players play other players outside their skill brackets which defeats the purpose of having a matchmaker in the first place.

Implementing a matchmaker when your population is low actually causes more harm than good because it divides the small number of players you have into more buckets that cant play eachother. Which results in matches not being found or extremely long queue times at best. PGI tried separate queues with faction play and it failed miserably because they had players spread across way too many buckets.

Fixing group queue for the current state of the game actually requires a completely different approach.



And yet your experience doesnt coincide with the experience of most other people who play this game. In other words you are completely out of touch with the majority of people who play the game. PGI has posted statistics and most of the people who play are solo players or play in groups of 1-2. The number of people who play in large groups or units is actually less than 5%. As much as you try to tell people they should join groups/units the fact is 95% wont. The difference between you and me is that you think those 95% are in the wrong.

The game not being receptive to new players or casual players is the #1 reason for its decline. And one of the big problems is that groups/units get too much free reign to pugstomp in gamemodes outside quickplay. And while normally a functional matchmaker would be a potential solution to that, its not a solution in the current low population state of the game.

Not that the game can really be saved at this point anyway so even discussing it is kindve pointless.

Well discussing these things with you is always fruitless and always has been. Nice re-edit by the way.

You saying 95% are single while adding in inclusion of 1-2 groups is a made up lie and absolute bs. It's your tiny 'engineer' brain fitting things to your personal narrative. Your wants and desires and minimal understanding always drive your arguments and you are incapable of seeing anything outside of that.

No doubt that quick play has always had numbers, but I wonder if even sorting out number of players in units in jarl's would support that despite that there are tons of players in units not even listed on jarls. Also you unsuprisingly fail to grasp that PGI's quick play numbers roled in all the unit folks playing quick play as well.

Then even when you start to break down the number of people in units v casual solos and then start to consider other metrics involved it points to exactly why large groups were considered. Clearly when you had old MS at a peak of a couple of hundred or more, 228, HHoD just to name a few, though casual players may have had more raw numbers, the amount of investment and time in game from the at one time couple of thousand people at the low end of the estimate becomes even more significant. Casuals are just that, and the casual soloists that spent as much time as the heavily invested unit/group folks outside of a small amount of outliers pales in comparison. It's not uncommon for unit guys to have hundreds and thousands invested in this game.

Oh and your bucket comparison is just plain stupid. Another thing you don't get. Matchmaker could put together teams as it does now, with gates open/triggered as required. Difference being those quick play matches would have had a better chance of being balanced. Hilarious that you tried to circle around to buckets and separation without thinking that simple part through. Even right now if you were rated tier four where you belong, even with gates wide open it would make a difference balancing out teams.

The real difference between me and you is that you can't see past your nose. The game has never bent over backwards to cater to units, and what you think it's biggest decline is not backed up by facts. The game numbers have had huge dives across the board over issues like skill maze and others, but it also has hit huge drops whenever they messed up implementing CW. It's just asinine to claim yourself champion of the 95 and think that means that 95% of the population wanted jump sniping eliminated or couldn't figure out how to have fun in group queue. A train engineer could think his way past such utter nonsense. Throwing around meaningless and untangible numbers doesn't back your point or give you one, it only sounds good to you in your head.

You are so incredibly bad at making a point or cohesive argument and yet somehow you have managed to convince yourself about so many things that aren't even approaching factual, or barely make sense. Masters degree my ***. It's literally like you never completed a paper in highschool or learned the basics at formulating a proper idea/argument. No wonder you are such a massive joke in the community.

Edited by Feral Clown, 03 September 2019 - 04:36 AM.

[Skjoelsvold]

Well I know the MW5 announcement certainly hurt the interest in many of the people in my unit. My unit (the majority of them anyway) all sorta drifted off after the Epic Games announcement happened. Many of them started talking refunds and were very disgusted. Most of us are also friends on Steam so it would have been a natural extension to just go into MW5 and start doing co-op missions in MW5 but instead we'll all have to wait a full year to do that. As an aside, a lot of us started playing other games together. I won't say in the forums which one we moved to, just that it's a massively multiplayer online FPS and leave it at that. We've been having a good time but sometimes we revisit MWO but getting group drops has been a bit spotty as of late. It's really too bad that just one bad decision and one dishonest move could sorta wreck things like this.

[Y E O N N E]

Skjoelsvold, on 03 September 2019 - 09:41 AM, said:

It's really too bad that just one bad decision and one dishonest move could sorta wreck things like this.

Things wouldn't have been so bad that one decision would de-rail the game if it actually was just one bad decision. Instead, it was a series of bad, dishonest decisions over 7 years.

[Mystere]

Nesutizale, on 03 September 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Well beside the need to level up there is also no "fun" league where people use non-meta loadouts. Sadly we don't have a good "private server lobby" so that you could setup your own fun-Solaris matches where people could just bring everything that is non meta.

There is actually nothing stopping you from doing so. Having said that, I think making leaderboards 100% public might have discouraged that, possibly by a lot.

[Mystere]

Again, if I may interrupt ...

Feral Clown, on 03 September 2019 - 03:29 AM, said:

You are 100% wrong and completely so. You arguing that just further highlights your ignorance and incapability to understand. It is an unassailable fact the PSR system is insanely upwardly biased. Your being in tier one is prime example of this. Even in a small population where there were a 1000 people playing concurrently, a proper rating system would have been huge.

If I am to guess, the upward-bias of the PSR system is by design given that its prime purpose is to separate experienced players from new ones. It was not intended to be a proper rating system. Tiers by design do not mean what people seem to think they mean.

Would a "real" rating system have worked? In theory, yes, but probably only in the beginning (i.e. matchmaking was the least of MWO's problems). In any case, that is now a moot point given MWO's currently low concurrent population numbers.

Edited by Mystere, 03 September 2019 - 02:51 PM.

[MechWarrior5782621]

I'm an optimist so I'll say that the graph is pretty much horizontal since season 25. A few people took a break from MWO this summer but they'll be back before u know it

[TheWarhammer]

So my question is, despite all the complaints of it, it's predicted End of Life, how many of us help encourage new players to actually try it? Is it a lost cause due to MW5 or will there be two communities, MWO and MW5 whereby people who want to do MWO can still trade pokes and LRM each other to death? Or is the game too far gone for that?

[JediPanther]

TheWarhammer, on 03 September 2019 - 12:43 PM, said:

So my question is, despite all the complaints of it, it's predicted End of Life, how many of us help encourage new players to actually try it? Is it a lost cause due to MW5 or will there be two communities, MWO and MW5 whereby people who want to do MWO can still trade pokes and LRM each other to death? Or is the game too far gone for that?

There could be two if pgi gets off its *** post mw5 and just decides to keep mwo as-is online. I have seen players with the new c-cadet tag which means they're 25 or under matches so they are new-ish or an alt by someone. you can lrm in qp but there is really lack of anything remotely reselbbling team work so you'll need all the extra equipment to get your own locks such as tag,bap,narcs,max sensor tree etc.

One of the main reasons I gave up lrms in my Catapults has been the consist and degrading of players in qp even with a tag out to 840m. With all the too common stealth mechs and ecm in qp being a lrm only boat is mostly dead weight and an easy first kill but I've had some success with my cptl-a1 as an lrm ten x 6 build providing I can get a light to play body guard.

[Nesutizale]

I have tried to bring in all the people I know. None stayed for very long. Biggest complaints where MechLab beeing to complex and not easy to understand and graphics beeing to old for the kind of hardware hunger.
Only very few stayed long enough to notice that the gamemodes became boring or got tired of nascar...or in short the issues that the old folks constantly complain about.

Theirfore I would say to get new people in its less about what most people here complain about.
Update graphics and performance. Ease the entrie by starting with Solaris and stockmodes, then S7 with costum loadouts, then PvE QP for 4-5 players, 8v8 small groups PVP and end it with 12v12 FP.
Also see to it that you add more maps and modes and completly throw the Mechlab and progression out the window and rework it.

Add salvage for example. You shoot someone and get parts of what he had. Not complete weapons but parts that you can use to upgrade your stuff or buy new stuff with it. Get mechs the same way, hunt down the mech you want, get the parts and build your own.

[Feral Clown]

Mystere, on 03 September 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

Again, if I may interrupt ...



If I am to guess, the upward-bias of the PSR system is by design given that its prime purpose is to separate experienced players from new ones. It was not intended to be a proper rating system. Tiers by design do not mean what people seem to think they mean.

Would a "real" rating system have worked? In theory, yes, but probably only in the beginning (i.e. matchmaking was the least of MWO's problems). In any case, that is now a moot point given MWO's currently low concurrent population numbers.

I wish I had the AMA where Paul said exactly what you describe, that it is working as intended. That was relatively recent (maybe close to a year and a half ago?) and with PGI's history I have a hard time buying into it.

It also makes no sense and I think has been along with the series of continual questionable changes, a key underlying issue that plagued the game. So many forum posts, youtube vids, reddit posts and hearing it come out of every fellow player I know.....

Personally still don't feel it's moot either because even with low numbers adjusting the scoring system they currently have while maybe not perfect, would at least be able to take current players from all tiers and balance teams. Instead the utterly enormous skill gap in tier one players makes for times where matchmaker will stack teams hard, and stomps are terrible games for both sides of that.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

The Transverse Disaster break the neck and following internal wars the Crew of PGI ...now Paul say the true, was older Players seeing since 2016 ...Maintance status...PGI searched Years in the Creer Portal for new Crewmember with Cryengine Experience..many comes, many leaves, and the Unreal engine with enough young Guy with experience the last hope to build a new good Crew for mW5 and later a MWO2, when PGI can overlived the Dusty Way...seeing by glassdoor ,the new Crewmembers most positive for PGI

https://www.glassdoo...gen-E144886.htm

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 03 September 2019 - 06:29 PM.

[Bolo Atari]

Nesutizale, on 03 September 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

I have tried to bring in all the people I know. None stayed for very long. Biggest complaints where MechLab beeing to complex and not easy to understand and graphics beeing to old for the kind of hardware hunger.
Only very few stayed long enough to notice that the gamemodes became boring or got tired of nascar...or in short the issues that the old folks constantly complain about.

Theirfore I would say to get new people in its less about what most people here complain about.
Update graphics and performance. Ease the entrie by starting with Solaris and stockmodes, then S7 with costum loadouts, then PvE QP for 4-5 players, 8v8 small groups PVP and end it with 12v12 FP.
Also see to it that you add more maps and modes and completly throw the Mechlab and progression out the window and rework it.

Add salvage for example. You shoot someone and get parts of what he had. Not complete weapons but parts that you can use to upgrade your stuff or buy new stuff with it. Get mechs the same way, hunt down the mech you want, get the parts and build your own.

Heck.

Yes.

[KHETTI]

They got the combat right, balance leaves a lot to be desired but can be fixed, maps and gamemodes are the poorest part of MWO.
All they had to do was copy MWLL maps and game modes to some degree and things would be good.