140 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 03 September 2019 - 01:25 PM, said:

Theirfore I would say to get new people in its less about what most people here complain about.
Update graphics and performance. Ease the entrie by starting with Solaris and stockmodes, then S7 with costum loadouts, then PvE QP for 4-5 players, 8v8 small groups PVP and end it with 12v12 FP.
Also see to it that you add more maps and modes and completly throw the Mechlab and progression out the window and rework it.

Add salvage for example. You shoot someone and get parts of what he had. Not complete weapons but parts that you can use to upgrade your stuff or buy new stuff with it. Get mechs the same way, hunt down the mech you want, get the parts and build your own.

The first one is kind of a bad idea 'cause you're splitting things up even more when we need to consolidate players to bring about some sense of continuous and constant games with less downtime.

If anything, put the option to allow Solos to drop into GQ. That way, GQ will get the much needed traffic it needs. Add incentives for players to try FW. Most of the events don't do this. If you ask me, Solaris should be a free-for-all and not 1-vs-1 or 2-vs-2. You can go further by making the mode such that players can drop in and out of the match as they please and there'll always be some action going on. The rewards are paid when a player quits based on the performance.

I don't understand the salvage part. You get paid to buy what you need anyway. So, what's the need for this "salvage"? Assembling mechs out of salvaged parts in this game isn't thought out right 'cause this is a multiplayer game with competitive modes. It doesn't revolve around building mechs and trying stuff out. If you make this game an unholy child of both, then it'll never excel in anything. At least now, we have an enjoyable mech-combat experience that gets ruined by bad play every now and then.

[Nesutizale]

FRAGTAST1C, on 03 September 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

The first one is kind of a bad idea 'cause you're splitting things up even more when we need to consolidate players to bring about some sense of continuous and constant games with less downtime.

If anything, put the option to allow Solos to drop into GQ. That way, GQ will get the much needed traffic it needs. Add incentives for players to try FW. Most of the events don't do this. If you ask me, Solaris should be a free-for-all and not 1-vs-1 or 2-vs-2. You can go further by making the mode such that players can drop in and out of the match as they please and there'll always be some action going on. The rewards are paid when a player quits based on the performance.

I don't understand the salvage part. You get paid to buy what you need anyway. So, what's the need for this "salvage"? Assembling mechs out of salvaged parts in this game isn't thought out right 'cause this is a multiplayer game with competitive modes. It doesn't revolve around building mechs and trying stuff out. If you make this game an unholy child of both, then it'll never excel in anything. At least now, we have an enjoyable mech-combat experience that gets ruined by bad play every now and then.

Letting people start the game with S7 1v1 comes from my experiance that new players are totaly lost with all the mechanics they have to deal with that are totaly unfamiliar to the normal shooter person.
Normal shooters you go in and all you care about is pointing your gun in the right direction (that is most likely familiar to you from movies or what not), ammo and health (if that isn't auto regenerating anyway).

MWO throws all kind of mechanics at you without explenation and little to no familiarity. Sure you have seen lasers in TV but finding out what all those different lasers do exactly and why the **** is there heat all of a sudden and why am I shutting down?
What about those hit-zones, what is internal damage, why do I just lost my weapon, etc. and how do I read the map and why does it make sense to stay with the team? WTF is armor sharing?
Last part was espacialy troublesome as all the other games are more or less solo games where are other people are around you but you go "Leroy" anyway.

That are all questions I got from people who I tried to bring into MWO. When Private matches where no longer behind the paywall it became much easier but by then I was done with all the people I know and no one wanted to try again.

From that experiance I say reduce the game as much as you can at the beginning. Give people one mech, one enemy and let them gather some experiance on how to manage that, then open up with more mechs, tech and enemys until they are familiar.
Its also a progression system where newcommers are around newcommers and don't get smashed by elits in their first game.
That was also a problem I faced regular and drove away people.

Does that split people up? Yes but you have to ask yourself, do you want to get new people into the game or do you want to compfort the old salty guard? A guard that is abandoning its post anyway at the moment. From a developers point of view your current costumers are a few bitter people and they allready have spend their money. Catering to the new generation is what will save your game IF you want to save it that is.

Salvage mechanic
Yah sorry I shortend stuff to much there. Let me explain a bit more detailed.
I would throw away the skilltree more or less completly. Most people didn't liked it anyway and its not a very good progression system anyway as it takes away the focus from your mech to something that feels artifical. Why the heck does your pilot skill influance laser range but then its bount to a fixed mech?

Instead I would introduce a system that is based around salvage you get from matches. Money can buy you weapons but to improve them you need better parts that you can get from salavage.
Lets say you bought a large laser. Now you migth want to increase its range or reduce the heat. To do so you would need salvage from lasers. Where do you get that from? During combat the program would track what targets you shoot at and what you hit and give you salvage accordingly.
For example you encounter a mech that has an AC and two lasers in its sidetorso. Takeing out that sidetorso would reward you with AC salvage and laser salvage.
When you are back in your mechbay you can select your large laser and when you have collected enough salvage you can upgrade the specs of this one weapon.

Because you can only upgrade that one weapon the stats for that weapons would be saved to it. Meaning you could take that improved weapon to another mech if you want.

Beside makeing more sense from the in universe perspective I think it would make a better progression system because you could fine tune it more and it gives you a clear goal you could work for instead of "oh look more XP to spend" you have "Okay I need 3 more laser salvage and 2 AC salvage". That is a clear goal.

It could also lead to a change in players combat behavior. Getting target information becomes more importend and takeing out specific parts becomes more rewarding. Might even reduce the LRMer problem as those weapons would now be more about soften targets but to get what you want you would need a pinpoint damage.

This is a rough idea and surely needs more detail work to be done as well as balance but I think it would be more interesting to have a clear goal of what to shoot in battle as well feel more like everything you do is centered around your mech, tinkering around with it and its systems to get the best out of it for your playstyle.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 04 September 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

That are all questions I got from people who I tried to bring into MWO. When Private matches where no longer behind the paywall it became much easier but by then I was done with all the people I know and no one wanted to try again.

From that experiance I say reduce the game as much as you can at the beginning. Give people one mech, one enemy and let them gather some experiance on how to manage that, then open up with more mechs, tech and enemys until they are familiar.
Its also a progression system where newcommers are around newcommers and don't get smashed by elits in their first game.
That was also a problem I faced regular and drove away people.

Does that split people up? Yes but you have to ask yourself, do you want to get new people into the game or do you want to compfort the old salty guard? A guard that is abandoning its post anyway at the moment. From a developers point of view your current costumers are a few bitter people and they allready have spend their money. Catering to the new generation is what will save your game IF you want to save it that is.

Which is why we need people to be able to play with their friends right from the start in Instant Action mode, which MWO fails in miserably. It's almost impossible to get a friend to play in the same game as you consistently. So, we need GQ to be active first and foremost. Then we can worry about skill disparity. For e.g., if you played Apex Legends, you don't actually mind finishing 20th or getting wrecked the moment you drop into the map 'cause you get to play with your friends, no questions asked. What is the alternative in MWO? Literally GQ but that is ruined by too many buckets to get a group going. Instead, we have EVERYONE in Instant Action mode.

"Do I want to get new players into the game or comfort the grumpy people who are leaving anyway?" How 'bout we do both by having GQ active first and allowing players to play together? I don't see why we even have a label such as "Grumpy people". I don't like them but I don't like people who label them as such 'cause they have experienced far more and there is a GENUINE reason why they are like that. Sure, there are some people who are like that regardless but they're mostly a small group. Fact is, the majority of those "Grumpy People" actually help newcomers.

Nesutizale, on 04 September 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

Salvage mechanic
Yah sorry I shortend stuff to much there. Let me explain a bit more detailed.
I would throw away the skilltree more or less completly. Most people didn't liked it anyway and its not a very good progression system anyway as it takes away the focus from your mech to something that feels artifical. Why the heck does your pilot skill influance laser range but then its bount to a fixed mech?

Instead I would introduce a system that is based around salvage you get from matches. Money can buy you weapons but to improve them you need better parts that you can get from salavage.
Lets say you bought a large laser. Now you migth want to increase its range or reduce the heat. To do so you would need salvage from lasers. Where do you get that from? During combat the program would track what targets you shoot at and what you hit and give you salvage accordingly.
For example you encounter a mech that has an AC and two lasers in its sidetorso. Takeing out that sidetorso would reward you with AC salvage and laser salvage.
When you are back in your mechbay you can select your large laser and when you have collected enough salvage you can upgrade the specs of this one weapon.

Because you can only upgrade that one weapon the stats for that weapons would be saved to it. Meaning you could take that improved weapon to another mech if you want.

Beside makeing more sense from the in universe perspective I think it would make a better progression system because you could fine tune it more and it gives you a clear goal you could work for instead of "oh look more XP to spend" you have "Okay I need 3 more laser salvage and 2 AC salvage". That is a clear goal.

It could also lead to a change in players combat behavior. Getting target information becomes more importend and takeing out specific parts becomes more rewarding. Might even reduce the LRMer problem as those weapons would now be more about soften targets but to get what you want you would need a pinpoint damage.

This is a rough idea and surely needs more detail work to be done as well as balance but I think it would be more interesting to have a clear goal of what to shoot in battle as well feel more like everything you do is centered around your mech, tinkering around with it and its systems to get the best out of it for your playstyle.

I'd rather keep this Salvage idea in a singleplayer mode, honestly.

[Nesutizale]

FRAGTAST1C, on 04 September 2019 - 01:58 AM, said:

Which is why we need people to be able to play with their friends right from the start in Instant Action mode, which MWO fails in miserably. It's almost impossible to get a friend to play in the same game as you consistently. So, we need GQ to be active first and foremost. Then we can worry about skill disparity. For e.g., if you played Apex Legends, you don't actually mind finishing 20th or getting wrecked the moment you drop into the map 'cause you get to play with your friends, no questions asked. What is the alternative in MWO? Literally GQ but that is ruined by too many buckets to get a group going. Instead, we have EVERYONE in Instant Action mode.

So how about a comprimise of haveing smaller instand action groups like 4v4? Should be easy enough to find small groups for faster drops and battles. I found FP scouting to be fun little matches that had little waiting times and even if you lost they where fast enough to just get into another game.

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How 'bout we do both by having GQ active first and allowing players to play together? I don't see why we even have a label such as "Grumpy people". I don't like them but I don't like people who label them as such 'cause they have experienced far more and there is a GENUINE reason why they are like that. Sure, there are some people who are like that regardless but they're mostly a small group. Fact is, the majority of those "Grumpy People" actually help newcomers.

I call those salty that act so. Sure beeing experianced is fine, haveing made some bad experiances with PGI? Fine but don't rub it in with new guys or act like you own the game and everyone has to follow what you say or play the way you do.
I welcome those who realy try to help out and get new people into the game.
As for what group is bigger, I sadly had the experiance that the salty people are the bigger group. If you had different experiances that is good. Nice to see that it can be different.

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I'd rather keep this Salvage idea in a singleplayer mode, honestly.

Why is that? I find it more lore friendly and less artifical/forced then the skilltree we have now.
The current skilltree is just "wait until you have the point". When you have some bad games it takes longer, when you have good games its faster but in the end its anyoing to do for every mech again and again.

Haveing its tied to your actual skill as a player to identifiy the mech, where his weapons are and what you need to shoot at and developing the skill to take out those parts seams far more interesting to me. It would also give players a reason to actualy become better and not just wait until your stats are better.

Also beeing able to take that improved weapon, engine, whatever with you to a new mech would mean that you don't drop to zero experiance.

Sure you would still need to upgrade lots of weapons over time if you don't want to switch parts around all the time but that would also make for an excelent progression system and money/parts sink to have.

Last point is I wouldn't restrict those kinds of upgrades to weapons but all parts of the mech. Let there be that one reactor that you have finaly upgraded and it becomes your favorit one. Or those sensors with the extra range, the LRM with the faster lockon. You could tinker each part of your mech to your playstyle.

Hell if you want to get real creative combine it with a minigame that lets you build "legendary" items and have a market to sell it to other players for ingame money or other salvage parts. You could have an entire economy around that.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 04 September 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

So how about a comprimise of haveing smaller instand action groups like 4v4? Should be easy enough to find small groups for faster drops and battles. I found FP scouting to be fun little matches that had little waiting times and even if you lost they where fast enough to just get into another game.

Sure, but if you can allow Solos to drop into GQ, then we won't need separate action groups at all. We'll have a full on battle all the time and this time, we can play with friends.

Nesutizale, on 04 September 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

I call those salty that act so. Sure beeing experianced is fine, haveing made some bad experiances with PGI? Fine but don't rub it in with new guys or act like you own the game and everyone has to follow what you say or play the way you do.
I welcome those who realy try to help out and get new people into the game.
As for what group is bigger, I sadly had the experiance that the salty people are the bigger group. If you had different experiances that is good. Nice to see that it can be different.

I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you that some of them are salty and take it out on EVERYBODY. They're equally bad. But I'm referring to some calling people salty just 'cause, for whatever reason, you didn't see eye-to-eye with that person. But in all honesty, that person is actually making a valid point from experience and is a nice enough person to give pointers to newbies. It's just that, when people say things like "Toxic", "Salty", etc., they are as bad as the people who are complete garbage nozzles. In the end, nothing productive comes out of it. That's just my take on it.

Nesutizale, on 04 September 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

Why is that? I find it more lore friendly and less artifical/forced then the skilltree we have now.
The current skilltree is just "wait until you have the point". When you have some bad games it takes longer, when you have good games its faster but in the end its anyoing to do for every mech again and again.

Haveing its tied to your actual skill as a player to identifiy the mech, where his weapons are and what you need to shoot at and developing the skill to take out those parts seams far more interesting to me. It would also give players a reason to actualy become better and not just wait until your stats are better.

Also beeing able to take that improved weapon, engine, whatever with you to a new mech would mean that you don't drop to zero experiance.

Sure you would still need to upgrade lots of weapons over time if you don't want to switch parts around all the time but that would also make for an excelent progression system and money/parts sink to have.

Last point is I wouldn't restrict those kinds of upgrades to weapons but all parts of the mech. Let there be that one reactor that you have finaly upgraded and it becomes your favorit one. Or those sensors with the extra range, the LRM with the faster lockon. You could tinker each part of your mech to your playstyle.

Hell if you want to get real creative combine it with a minigame that lets you build "legendary" items and have a market to sell it to other players for ingame money or other salvage parts. You could have an entire economy around that.

See, there's a difference between making an action game and turning that action game into a "thinking man's game". But if you go overboard, then it becomes a chore. I guarantee you, if you put even a tiny bit of what you've said into practise in this game, it'll be worse than grinding XP for Skill Points.

What makes a successful multi-player action game? It allows people to team up with friends and go do the "Action-y" part without boundaries i.e., artificial barriers in the name of progression. Take a look throughout gaming history of action FPS multiplayer games. They all allowed you to get into the game quick and have a blast. The tweaking of equipment was mostly to personalise parts of the game to your liking. It was never one of the core components.

The ideas you've put forth are fantastic and I'd love to do all of that but in a singleplayer game. Maybe MW5's modding scene will implement your ideas soon and we can have a Roguetech-like mod for it. But for MWO, the sheer grind just to level up a straight up skill mechanic is a chore. Just imagine your ideas of upgrading components and weapons through salvage as a core part of progression when there is literally NO GUARANTEE that people will flock to the game again to try this out.

What MWO needs is less buckets and the population combined to keep the matches going and allow friends to team up with each other. Then, as an end-game sort of a mode, the FW should become a great incentive for experienced players to play there all the time while the newcomers should progress to it naturally after they've bought enough specialised mechs.

[Nesutizale]

FRAGTAST1C, on 04 September 2019 - 04:22 AM, said:

Sure, but if you can allow Solos to drop into GQ, then we won't need separate action groups at all. We'll have a full on battle all the time and this time, we can play with friends.

I agree to that to a certain degree. To big groups against a group of solo players gives a lot of power to the group. In the extreme there would be 12group vs 12 solo players. If the group is halfway compentent they will most likely mop the floor with the solo players.
So while I don't mind solo and group players in one bucket, that bucket should or better said needs a size limit where groups don't overpower the solo players. 4v4 or at max 8v8 also I think 8v8 is allready problematic. When I see games where 3-4 people can carrie 12man battles then they would crush smaller groups or groups of solos completly. In 4v4 I don't see it as problematic as such small battles would be over quite fast so there isn't much lost.

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See, there's a difference between making an action game and turning that action game into a "thinking man's game". But if you go overboard, then it becomes a chore. I guarantee you, if you put even a tiny bit of what you've said into practise in this game, it'll be worse than grinding XP for Skill Points.

Well I have quite some fun with that kind of modding my equipment with Warframe and that is one fast playing, twitchy shooter. Definitly not the "thinking man" kind. Its also one of the more successfull F2P titles out there and its grindy as hell...and its fun.
They managed to turn the "I need more XYZ" grind into something one likes to do and tinkering around with all the mods to upgrade your weapons and frame us fun. I think it could be fun in MWO too.

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What makes a successful multi-player action game? It allows people to team up with friends and go do the "Action-y" part without boundaries i.e., artificial barriers in the name of progression. Take a look throughout gaming history of action FPS multiplayer games. They all allowed you to get into the game quick and have a blast. The tweaking of equipment was mostly to personalise parts of the game to your liking. It was never one of the core components.

CoD has a progression system where you don't get everything at the beginning.
Battlefield has pretty much the same progression where you don't start with everything.
Just to name the two biggest MP franchises that come to my mind.
BR games are not directly gated as you can use whatever you find but finding the stuff is in itself a progression system, just faster.

MWO is more the exception then the norm with dropping everything on the player right from the start. Also I wouldn't restrict anyone with the salvage system. You can still buy the basic version of everything. What you have is a progression afterwards that is not an artifical system of stats increase but to actual equipment.

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The ideas you've put forth are fantastic and I'd love to do all of that but in a singleplayer game. Maybe MW5's modding scene will implement your ideas soon and we can have a Roguetech-like mod for it.

Thanks. I also hope that MW5 has an interesting mechanic for progression other then just buying new mechs or equipment.

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But for MWO, the sheer grind just to level up a straight up skill mechanic is a chore. Just imagine your ideas of upgrading components and weapons through salvage as a core part of progression when there is literally NO GUARANTEE that people will flock to the game again to try this out.

I think the grinding throught the current skilltree is a chore because its allways the same. I hardly change a lot from mech to mech and its something thats in the background. Its more like a "okay another round to finaly, finaly get that ONE freaking last point and then I am done"
Its not like "Okay lets see what I collected this mission, mh okay I can use that to upgrade my laser on mech X and oh those AC parts I can use to upgrade the other mech and that heatsinkpart, well I can sell it on the market."
During combat you would be more like "That guy has an AC, I want that, now how do I get into position?"

Yes it would be more of a "thinking mans" shooter in that regard but you could still play it as the "just shoot everything that moves" kinda way and will have some progression

As for garantee that people will return to try that out...I doubt that there will be big numbers at the current point. Maybe in a few month when things have calmed down or when MW5 is a success and proves that PGI can make a good game.
Beside a rework of lots of stuff to bring MWO up to the quality people want and bringing in the game mechanics needed to atrackt new players MWO would need a massive PR campaign to draw attention to itself.
One that show the new elements, what changed and why people should try it over the other MP shooters out there. I think just haveing stompy robots isn't enough and fast paste shooters are out there in masses.
I think the "thinking mans" shooter could realy be a niche that is worth catering to but you have to put a lot of effort into that.
Not only the progression system would need a rework, combat itself would need a heavy rework and maybe we even have to brake the lore on more then one point.
Overall it needs a clear vision and people that can pull it off and then do some very good PR.

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What MWO needs is less buckets and the population combined to keep the matches going and allow friends to team up with each other. Then, as an end-game sort of a mode, the FW should become a great incentive for experienced players to play there all the time while the newcomers should progress to it naturally after they've bought enough specialised mechs.

Focusing on group play, yes that should be done as a quick fix. The longterm survival of MWO...well you just read what I think about it. Clear vision, lots of rework and heavy PR.

[FRAGTAST1C]

GQ :- If there is a 12man group ready to seal-club some solos dropping into GQ, then it really doesn't matter. The moment there is enough traffic, there'll be more groups queueing up. We shouldn't be worrying about some odd games where seal-clubbing happens 'cause if we do, then the actual goal won't be attained.

Action Game - Thinking man's game :- I personally don't know how many MWO players actually play Warframe as much as they do MWO but from several streamers that I've watched, they don't. I occasionally saw TTB playing Warframe but he doesn't do that often. Just an e.g., Leave Warframe as Warframe. Let's face it. The reason why we play MWO despite its current state is that it is still a good game only ruined by business decisions and lack of effort put into making this game sustainable for old and new players alike.

Progression system :- Do people still play CoD like they used to? That progression system just screams for micro-transactions to kick in big time. What MWO needs is to have a quick way to bring in new people, give them some sense of familiarity in terms of controls and customization and let them blow each other's mechs up. Making too many changes to the current system won't help. More maps, polished game modes... now that will help.

Common ground :- I think most people would agree for new maps for starters. Then worry about other things. I keep bringing up the e.g., of Path of Exile. The developers there knew that the interest would dwindle. But their plan was to keep adding massive new content regularly so that the people would return, play until they'd get burnt out and leave. But a month or so later, new content would arrive. So, personally, yeah, new maps, better presentation of game modes and the like, would go a long way in keeping the current population entertained but (and don't take this the wrong way, please) adding your salvage mechanics into MWO would only drive the frustration levels up. That's just my take on it.

[justcallme A S H]

If only the MM was addressed like some of the SUGGESTIONS - the player experience wouldn't be as bad, for both high and low skill players.

Alas PGI had their vision and said the MM was fine.

The player experience said something entirely different.

And thus here we are. "Tier 1" is now just a plethora of low-skill users that have no reason being above Tier 4...Games are just a frustrating joke and that is leading to more and more people simply throwing in the towel.

There is only so much rotation around the same map feature on each map, each and ever game.

People are sick of the senseless/mindless NASCAR. It's infuriating but it is a direct result of letting low skill users into higher tiers where they dont belong and the hive mind/fear just kicks in and it's just a case of what team wins by shooting the other teams rear ends first.

That isn't a strategic or intelligent gameplay... And it's only become a epic problem in the last 12-18 months. QP was NEVER as bad as it is right now... But then when droves of high skill players leave because of (skill tree, desync, constant weapon nerfs making the game un-fun), the lower skill are allowed to freely climb rather than be PUNISHED for poor/mindless game play.

There is no game that I've ever played where you can be in the BOTTOM 30% of the playerbase skill wise, yet be at the top tier. That's just flat out dumb.

[Nesutizale]

GQ
Yah I am still so used to argue around low player numbers. True it is, when there are enough groups then it becomes less of a problem.

Action - Thinking
Gameplay wise MWO isn't either. Far to slow for an action game and not strategic/tactical enough to be a thinking shooter.

Progression:
Well they still make CoD games so its most likely enough people buying it to spend the money to make a new one each year or two years...haven't been following the cycle. CoD isn't my type of game.
As for micro transactions, well since Mechpacks don't sell that is an option, also not one I would prefere but if they want to keep MWO F2P then they have to do something to bring money in.

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What MWO needs is to have a quick way to bring in new people, give them some sense of familiarity in terms of controls and customization and let them blow each other's mechs up.

That is the point where Battletech struggles the most I think. Gameplay is so different from you 0815 shooter that there is hardly somehting familiar about it.

New maps:
That is mostly an issue for older players who allready know every little rock by name on the maps. For new players there are enough maps.

Game Modes
Here we could use some fresh wind. There have been enough suggestions to surely find something worth trying.

Match Maker
That is definitly one of the more importend parts that need a rework.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 05 September 2019 - 02:05 AM, said:

As for micro transactions, well since Mechpacks don't sell that is an option, also not one I would prefere but if they want to keep MWO F2P then they have to do something to bring money in.


That is the point where Battletech struggles the most I think. Gameplay is so different from you 0815 shooter that there is hardly somehting familiar about it.

New maps:
That is mostly an issue for older players who allready know every little rock by name on the maps. For new players there are enough maps.

Match Maker
That is definitly one of the more importend parts that need a rework.

I'd rather have a Subscription-based model instead of micro-transactions, tbh. By that, I mean an optional one with good quirks like for 15-20 bucks a month, players get PT, some MC, som Bolt-ons and an option to pick variants a la carte when buying new mech packs. Diving into micro-transactions would just p*ss players off, I think mostly 'cause it won't be "micro" but cost a lot.

MWO is pretty much like a vehicle combat game in FP mode. I'd rather play this than the Tank or Ship games.

Trust me... when new maps are there, everyone will be happy, more so the older players. We just can't ignore the existing player base to hope to please a new one.

For now, I'd rather work on making the FW better and then push for new maps. THEN, work on the MM. The population is too low for any kind of MM to work properly. Get the population to a serviceable number and then sort by player skill to make teams evenly matched. Put the option for solos to drop into GQ somewhere in there as well.

[Nesutizale]

Micro Transaktions
Yah as I said, also not my cup of tea either, just an option one has to look into today. Its a working system for many games, if we like it or not.
How about stright buying MC and make MC a universal currancy that you can use for everything from new weapons to mechs or prime time or GXP. I think haveing MC as a universal currency might be even better as everyone can then decide whats most importend to him instead of getting a fixed pack each month.

MWO, tanks and ships
I think I know what games you mean and while tanks never did it for me I played with ships for some time.
Fun thing is I stopped with ships and got back fulltime to mechs. Then I got tired of people constantly hiding because someone could scratch their paint, even when there was only a single enemy and constant nascar.
So I installed ships again and after 3 or so round uninstalled because....people trying to hid and nascar !

Quote

Trust me... when new maps are there, everyone will be happy, more so the older players. We just can't ignore the existing player base to hope to please a new one.

Sure you shouldn't leave them out. I just think that PGI isn't big enough in staff to work on many things the same time, so I would preorities them. Its difficulte.
Sure I would love to see new maps myself but on the other side the MM also works for the old maps too. So I think the bigger benefit would be bigger if we with first getting an enjoyable game becasue of more fair teams then a new map popping up in the rotation every now and then. Also new maps get also old very fast. Good MM is an essential part for everything.

Oh well there are so many building block PGI would need to takle to get MWO back into shape. I am not certain that it would be better to close MWO for the time beeing and come back with a good working MWO 2.0 or work on 2.0 in the background if MWO still brings in enough money.
I mean lets face it, all the stuff that need to be done will suck up a lot of money and time. I don't know if its even possible from a economical standpoint to get things back on track as it is now.

[Anjian]

Introducing gacha type microtransactions to get new content --- imagine if new mechs are only acquired through random rolls --- will literally kill off the existing base for sure.

But in the future some executive will do it, in order to court a whole new generation of players who are used to gacha/F2P mechanics.

[JediPanther]

Swtor and wow and eve could teach pgi how to do a game right. They have all the pay2win/subscriber things but also the free players aren't given the shaft either. In five years of swtor i've only spent five bucks yet still get all the story elements and some pvp if I want along with the raids even though the number of them I can do is limited. They constantly update the cosmetics,put them on sale, do regular events, give subs bonuses for subbing during different time frames with limited to that time frame sub rewards only. Never felt I had to or was forced to spend money. Same thing for wow,alot of friends have wow but it just isn't my thing despite having a lot of low level free toons.

[Anjian]

SWTOR and WOW has all been ruined by EA, and EVE is ruining itself lately.


But yes, the lessons of their past selves --- not their present selves or where their current games and franchises are headed --- should be heeded how to make a proper F2P game. They are heeded, if you look at some of the most popular online games today, there are many examples of successful F2P games that are not pay to win or pay to play, although they are still heavy in microtransactions that happen to deal mainly with cosmetics and increased outflow of in game currency, which in turn is also used to buy more cosmetics. They hand out a lot of free stuff daily, have missions that hand out more free stuff, have events that hand out more free stuff, and give you more free stuff even on the simple things like logging in every day.

However, you cannot design in isolation. You might want to study different games across the market, including successful ones in PC, console and mobile, especially in mobile and I kid you not, and those are that are cross platform.

[Bombast]

Anjian, on 06 September 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

SWTOR and WOW has all been ruined by EA, and EVE is ruining itself lately.

How did EA ruin WoW?

And to be fair, EVE's problems have nothing to do with it's monitization system. The bigger problem is how so many of the game's systems seem purpose built to make the new player experience as miserable as possible. It's downright silly that the most dangerous systems in the game are called "High-Security," and as far as I know, they've never fixed the "Eternal War Declaration" issue that's let trolls smear less-than-a-month-old players into paste non-stop with no consequences.

[Anjian]

Bombast, on 06 September 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

How did EA ruin WoW?

And to be fair, EVE's problems have nothing to do with it's monitization system. The bigger problem is how so many of the game's systems seem purpose built to make the new player experience as miserable as possible. It's downright silly that the most dangerous systems in the game are called "High-Security," and as far as I know, they've never fixed the "Eternal War Declaration" issue that's let trolls smear less-than-a-month-old players into paste non-stop with no consequences.

I meant EA ruined Blizzard. The EA creep is gradually affecting Blizzard's games.

The whole idea of making the new player experience miserable --- and this is a common theme with P2P/P2W games --- is to force players to pay up for the gimmicks needed to help them alleviate and accelerate development of their player experience. That's exactly what EVE is doing and that's a stereotypical strategy used by many game companies.

https://forums-archi...essage/6881186/

Latest game to use this grand strategy is this.

Edited by Anjian, 06 September 2019 - 08:59 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

The biggest problem this game has is the fragmentation of the gamemodes. Quickplay could be factionplay, one integrated gamemode with units created that join factions, and every QP match is a FP drop that affects the overall map. all the FP modes and QP modes could be integrated into 1 mode - FP all the time. This would then give an overarching gamemode to the simple drop endlessly for no reason mode we have now.

mwo suffers from this and one other issue - the difficulty of playing with your friends. trying to bring new people into game and play with them and the group drop gameplay plus group drop time to find a match are totally uninteresting to most players, even veterans, and new players just give up.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Corvus Antaka, on 08 September 2019 - 08:29 PM, said:

The biggest problem this game has is the fragmentation of the gamemodes. Quickplay could be factionplay, one integrated gamemode with units created that join factions, and every QP match is a FP drop that affects the overall map. all the FP modes and QP modes could be integrated into 1 mode - FP all the time. This would then give an overarching gamemode to the simple drop endlessly for no reason mode we have now.

mwo suffers from this and one other issue - the difficulty of playing with your friends. trying to bring new people into game and play with them and the group drop gameplay plus group drop time to find a match are totally uninteresting to most players, even veterans, and new players just give up.

I wouldn't club QP with FW but yeah, QP should have some weight/importance. Maybe make it planet-based and add in some minor scenarios for it?

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 08 September 2019 - 10:10 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

im not at all surprised by the massive decrease in players.

even setting aside the years of terrible decisions and the abandoning of what the game was supposed to be, telling the players that the game is essentially done and in 'maintenance mode' was never a good idea.

i used to play a lot and ive been playing for 5 years (maybe more?) but once they announced maintenance mode is just straight up stopped playing, havent played in months.


ill be real surprised if the game is around this time next year and that might be being generous.

[Appogee]

Mystere, on 03 September 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

If I am to guess, the upward-bias of the PSR system is by design ...

Correct.

Mystere, on 03 September 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

...given that its prime purpose is to separate experienced players from new ones.

Incorrect.

It's designed to give players a sense of continual advancement, a key design principle for free to play games whose revenue is dependent on ongoing purchases or subscriptions.

PGI's idiocy was to then use it as the primary input to their matchmaker.

Edited by Appogee, 09 September 2019 - 12:54 AM.