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Lrms And Fw


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#61 Nightbird

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 01:35 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 21 January 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

The only reason to not like the lower arc is because you prefer to hide behind team mates.


Not really, for trading, missile lock + travel time is painfully slow, and allows the other guys to get out of LOS. The lower arc means missiles that would hit before would miss. When shooting lrm boats, I wait for them to release missiles before ducking to make all the missiles hit terrain that do not block high arc missiles.

#62 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 08:02 PM

So again, when minimum lock time has been more then tripled, and the maximum lock time has been way more then tripled, and what matters the most when getting a direct lock in plain sight is how little time it takes to get a lock... it's safe to say that direct LOS locks have become ~3 times more dangerous then before.

And while indirect locks can also take ~3 times longer then before, I'll take 3 times longer over 3 times more dangerous.

As for low arc vs high arc, I actually use LRMs... When I chain fire LRMs and the first volley uses the low arc while the second volley uses the high arc 0.5s later, what typically happens is that the target takes a step back behind the hill he's using as cover, the fast low arc volley rushes straight into that hill, and the high arc volley slowly flies over that hill ~1 second later and lands right into the target instead.

As far as actual use goes, there is just about no case where the low arc volley is fast enough to hit the target but the high arc is too slow too hit it too : It's either both volleys hit, or the low arc doesn't hit because it goes in first but only to crash into the ground cover instead of hitting the target.

That's why LRM users know it's a nerf for a fact from first-hand experience, while non-LRM users only imagine it's a buff by mistake , thinking that reducing the amount of LRMs being fired by ~tripling the lock time, and making more of the ones that are fired crash into the ground, is some kind of magical buff. Well no it isn't.

When I use LRMs I spend half my time getting a direct lock and then fetching an indirect lock so I can benefit from the high arc before firing them, and the other half getting an unwanted low arc and cursing it as my LRMs crash right into direct sight cover (or my teammate's back) because of that low arc nerf.

Remember what PGI did the first time they nerfed ATMs (in 2018 ?) : They lowered the ATM's firing arc, and back then they properly called lowering that firing arc a nerf, not a magical buff, because that's what lowering an arc is, it's a nerf.

And again the biggest nerf isn't that reduced arc, but the 100% lock time bonus nerf of both TAG and ECM, that makes the difference between a balanced patch (give and take), and an outright nerf (take a lot more then you give back).

And while you can get a hundred notorious LRM "haters" to say they believe that nerf was a buff : You won't get any notorious LRM "user" calling that mix of more nerf then buff, anything else but the nerf that is was.

The (direct sight) LRMs may fly faster, but less are fired because of the big lock time nerf, and those that are fired hit less because of the low arc nerf. So when both your fire rate and hit rate have been dropped by a patch, that's the proper definition of a nerf, and even a double nerf, no matter what the new LRM speed is.

And when we ask PGI to let us choose the "right" LRM arc ourselves, PGI won't let us : PGI not giving us the option to "nerf" ourselves with a manual high LRM arc, has more to do with PGI not wanting to let us "un-nerf" ourselves by letting us choose the high arc that we need and want to use 90% of the time direct LOS or not.

"oh but Dexter, your LRMs fly faster now, so it doesn't matter if you shoot less and what you do shoot misses more, because LRMs fly like 20 times faster now, so it's a buff" : Yea, dream on...

Edited by Humble Dexter, 21 January 2020 - 08:51 PM.


#63 justcallme A S H

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 08:29 PM

LOL.

I came up with the term CLAG-ging your enemies after Writhen used LRMs for an entire season. I also did the same for luls. Don't try and come off as some "LRM Expert".

You have not adapted to the huge net buff the weapon system received. That is your problem and yours alone for being unable to make a huge mechanic buff work in your favour.

What you are showing is how little you understand about in-game mechanics by crying wolf on a huge net buff to LRMs over the course of 3 patches in 2018.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 January 2020 - 08:41 PM.


#64 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:11 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 21 January 2020 - 08:29 PM, said:

What you are showing is how little you understand about in-game mechanics by crying wolf on a huge net buff to LRMs over the course of 3 patches in 2018.

Well for one I'm only talking about the "2019 LRM balance patch", the one that more then tripled my minimum direct LOS lock-on time, and significantly reduced my direct LOS hit rate...

And for two, I am not specially amazed, by what I was offered in exchange : Basically the newfound ability to fire faster traveling LRMs under the Crimson Strait tunnel, thanks to the lower LRM arc.

And for three : No amount of "adaptation" will undo that huge increase in lock-time (both direct and indirect lock-times). There is simply no notorious LRM "user" you can call on, to demonstrate why being forced to both fire less and miss more means you've been buffed.

And in fact, I have explained why less is less a few times over, and have yet to find anyone "explaining" why less is more in their broken LRM-hating brain...

Except for : "oh but Dexter, your LRMs fly faster now, so it doesn't matter if you shoot less and what you do shoot misses more, because LRMs fly like 20 times faster now, so it's a buff"

View PostPrototelis, on 21 January 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

The only reason to not like the lower arc is because you prefer to hide behind team mates.

Already explained you a dozen times there's almost nothing a low arc LRM can hit that a high arc LRM couldn't have hit ~1 second later...

But there's just plenty of things a high arc LRM will hit that a low arc LRM would have missed.

The only reason to like the lower arc nerf, is if you don't want players using LRMs.

Edited by Humble Dexter, 21 January 2020 - 09:28 PM.


#65 Serial Number

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:32 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 21 January 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

And for two, I am not specially amazed, by what I was offered in exchange : Basically the newfound ability to fire faster traveling LRMs under the Crimson Strait tunnel, thanks to the lower LRM arc.



Of course you're not when you're just sitting 500m behind the team being parasite hoping to get locks. Somehow I keep getting 2.5k-3k dmg alone in my lrm snv and I feel like my brain cells are just dying each time I'm playing lrms. This is how hard it is to play them. But yeah you're the "lrm expert" in here, so I guess you'll just keep crying about those "nerfs" as usual. :)

#66 justcallme A S H

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:38 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 21 January 2020 - 09:11 PM, said:

Well for one I'm only talking about the "2019 LRM balance patch", the one that more then tripled my minimum direct LOS lock-on time, and significantly reduced my direct LOS hit rate...


No it did not.

Go read the patch notes.

#67 Hazeclaw

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:40 PM

before the patches lrms were ridiculously easy, now they're just easy............the horror

I still don't think you should be able to score 2k+ per mech without ever facing the enemy

#68 Kroete

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:33 AM

View Postmrmike5234, on 03 January 2020 - 11:02 AM, said:

Yes I've run lrms before, most of us have, its a learning curve.

In both ways ...
if you used them,
you should know the counters and how to work against them.

Maybe use them a little more to find their weak points?

#69 Dionnsai

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 11:48 AM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 21 January 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

And while indirect locks can also take ~3 times longer then before, I'll take 3 times longer over 3 times more dangerous.


This right here is why you and other lurmers are viewed as below pond scum. You want to play a competitive team oriented pvp game, but you want to sit somewhere safe while the rest of your team does the actual work. If you win a match, it has nothing to do with anything you did, you are incidental to the actual battle.

#70 Prototelis

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 12:35 PM

^ #notalllrmers

Just like 3-4 very noisy ones that are used to an implementation that encouraged you to sandbag.

#71 Dionnsai

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:22 PM

But that's the thing, if you're going to face and trade people, why not take a better weapon?

#72 Hazeclaw

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:30 PM

View PostDionnsai, on 22 January 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

But that's the thing, if you're going to face and trade people, why not take a better weapon?


because aiming is hard and is overall considered hacking, also the reality is that pretty much nobody who plays lrms gets their own locks. The only people I've seen getting their own locks are high end players who almost never play lrms who used self narcing lrm mechs

the indirect nerf when it came out, and the outcry on the forums that followed has really shown that all those "I move with the team, get my own locks and share armor" players only existed on the forums, and practically nobody who frequently used lock ons played like this

#73 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:00 PM

View PostDionnsai, on 22 January 2020 - 11:48 AM, said:

This right here is why you and other lurmers are viewed as below pond scum. You want to play a competitive team oriented pvp game, but you want to sit somewhere safe while the rest of your team does the actual work. If you win a match, it has nothing to do with anything you did, you are incidental to the actual battle.

What I am is irrelevant, what I want is irrelevant, what I do is irrelevant, if I win is irrelevant... which makes you and your post : Irrelevant.

Can you even tell me what my point was, and why your answer is totally unrelated to it, without having to read the next sentence ?

My point here is that the 2019 LRM balance patch was meant to encourage players to use LRMs more in direct mode (meaning not meant to satisfy your desire to have LRMs removed from mech simulations), through a mix of indirect sight nerfs and direct sight buffs.

And that instead, the 2019 LRM balance patch had more to do with discouraging using LRMs in direct sight, then encouraging it.

So explain to me : "Why, when using LRMs, a MWO player should feel more encouraged to use LRMs in direct sight in 2020, then he was back in 2018, now that their minimum direct sight lock-time has been more then tripled from 25% to 80% ?"

And stop saying you don't like LRMs, why you think nobody should be using LRMs in mech simulations, and/or what weapons you think other players should be using for your sake instead of using LRMs... Not interested in the slightest, go read the question again.

Also : Go read the question again, and stop repeating you want LRMs removed instead.

#74 The Jewce Iz Loose

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:45 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 22 January 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

What I am is irrelevant, what I want is irrelevant, what I do is irrelevant, if I win is irrelevant... which makes you and your post : Irrelevant.

Can you even tell me what my point was, and why your answer is totally unrelated to it, without having to read the next sentence ?

My point here is that the 2019 LRM balance patch was meant to encourage players to use LRMs more in direct mode (meaning not meant to satisfy your desire to have LRMs removed from mech simulations), through a mix of indirect sight nerfs and direct sight buffs.

And that instead, the 2019 LRM balance patch had more to do with discouraging using LRMs in direct sight, then encouraging it.

So explain to me : "Why, when using LRMs, a MWO player should feel more encouraged to use LRMs in direct sight in 2020, then he was back in 2018, now that their minimum direct sight lock-time has been more then tripled from 25% to 80% ?"

And stop saying you don't like LRMs, why you think nobody should be using LRMs in mech simulations, and/or what weapons you think other players should be using for your sake instead of using LRMs... Not interested in the slightest, go read the question again.

Also : Go read the question again, and stop repeating you want LRMs removed instead.


Maybe it's the games way of telling you to put on your big boy pants and learn how to play with some other weapons. There are maps when lrm is a good choice, but it's not every map like you do. You don't share armor with your teammates, you don't focus components on mech's, and you don't listen to calls. Why do you think everyone dislikes you and what you do. You are not a team player in a team game. They should put a longer lock time on non direct locks, like 5 or 6 seconds just to hear you cry some more. They nerfed clans er smalls, med pulse, med and just about every other weapon but it happens to you and now you cry like a baby. Learn how to use other weapons and try working with your team.

#75 justcallme A S H

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:49 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 22 January 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

My point here is that the 2019 LRM balance patch was meant to encourage players to use LRMs more in direct mode (meaning not meant to satisfy your desire to have LRMs removed from mech simulations), through a mix of indirect sight nerfs and direct sight buffs.


View PostHumble Dexter, on 22 January 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:

And that instead, the 2019 LRM balance patch had more to do with discouraging using LRMs in direct sight, then encouraging it.


It was a net buff.

In 18 months of hiding behind 11 other players. You've just been unable to utilise the gain.

Just because you cannot adapt to a very simple mechanic change does not mean it is broken, does not work or otherwise.

All it means it that you are unable to comprehend the fact you need to change your parasitic behaviour. Which was the exact reason/purpose for the change - parasites like you.

#76 Scout Derek

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:53 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 22 January 2020 - 02:00 PM, said:


So explain to me : "Why, when using LRMs, a MWO player should feel more encouraged to use LRMs in direct sight in 2020, then he was back in 2018, now that their minimum direct sight lock-time has been more then tripled from 25% to 80% ?"

Posted Image



For the record, that's for indirect lock-on time, from a long range, that time has been increased.

Patch Notes, March 19th, 2019

Weapon Lock-On system Overhaul

We have decided to move away from a universal weapon lock-on system into something with more depth depending on your overall position and ‘Mech configuration relevant to the target you are attempting to acquire a weapon lock on against. While also bringing more direct importance to the sensor system with how it relates to indirect fire weapon locks. Like LRM direct vs. indirect fire, the weapon lock-on system will now be broken up into two distinct states dependent on if you have direct LOS to the target or not.

Direct Line of Sight:

Attempting a weapon lock in direct LOS will see a 20% reduction in weapon lock-on time over the previous universal lock-on base time.
This rate is a flat rate that applies equally across all ranges provided you have direct LOS to the target. Furthermore, this value cannot be augmented in any way.
No Direct Line of Sight:

Indirect Weapon Lock-on time will now be dependent on the range of the target relative to your max sensor range.
Indirect locks attempted at close range will retain a lock-time identical to the previous universal lock-on time.
The further out the target is relative to your max sensor range, the longer this time will take to acquire. With anything at extreme range or past max sensor range taking the longest time to acquire a lock compared to locks attempted at closer relative sensor range.
These lock-on times are treated as base values, and as such are modified in both positive and negative ways by equipment such as ECM, TAG, and NARC.
Sensor range increases can potentially impact your indirect-lock-on time dependent on where the target is relative to your total sensor range.
TAG and NARC will have expanded functionality in how they will interact with indirect fire described below to account for these changes.
The video below demonstrates the difference between Direct LOS locks, compared to short range indirect locks compared to extreme range. Note that there are intermittent steps between the short and long range lock-on process dependent on the target’s relationship to your max sensor range.





Please don't spread false information. Thank you.

Edited by Scout Derek, 01 February 2020 - 11:32 AM.


#77 Prototelis

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 02:55 PM

*laughs in Trebuchet*

also

*laughs in skill eagle*

#78 justcallme A S H

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 03:00 PM

View PostScout Derek, on 22 January 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

Please don't spread false information. Thank you.


That statement accounts for many, many posts across this forum.

Users for the most part have no clue what they are talking about and should refrain from making statements/comments on things they do not understand.

The community would be in a better place if that was so.

#79 -Winter

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 03:10 PM

Yeah so not for nothing but going up against a somewhat Premade team, on caustic, w/ 4-6 LRM sitting in their drop and 2 stealth Narc is absolute no skill aids.. Simple.. You can't defend that with "but real LRM players"...

#80 Prototelis

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 03:27 PM

^This is a point that has been made, and reinforced in game.

IS lrms, especially, are off the chain when played on the correct map with a decent stealth-narc mech.

Even then, you can dunk the **** out of these in mid range with the skill eagle or a trench bucket without dedicated support.


LRMS even saw use at the highest level of the game in last years world's series, and even before that in other competative leagues there were strats built around them. You started seeing them at higher levels more after the velocity buffs in 2018, and even more after the LRM BUFFS of 2019.





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