Dimento Graven, on 19 February 2020 - 01:02 PM, said:
And again that brings me to my compromise: Ok then, just bring back meaningful collision damage then.
It depends: When arguing for a pitch/yaw range and speed change for assaults it's because nothing would change in the other classes. The other classes don't lose any maneuverability, speed, fire power, armor... nothing.
The only thing that would change is that one class that was overly affected from one system wide nerf would return to a little bit of normality, not even close to back to 100% of what was prior.
When we're talking what would be a NEW FEATURE, like knock downs, that could be utilized by all classes, affecting all classes, it's not a "nerf" it's just exactly as what I'd stated at the beginning of this sentence, a NEW FEATURE.
The problem is everyone's argument against it has been: "We didn't like it before, and we won't even bother discussing on how to make it work well because we don't want our light 'mechs to work harder..." You just tearfully cry "stun lock" and that's it. Very few (if any) say things like, "If they could implement it without the 'stun lock' effect I'd be for it..."
You're apparently just 100% against anything that you feel would make a light's life difficult.
Opinions vary, and are wrong.
Yep, sometimes I miss the visible light. Sometimes I potato, totally admit that. A lot of times, however, I'm fighting:
Lack of reasonable pitch/yaw speed and range.
Colorblindness -- (Seriously, Russ really believes that changing the shape of thing affects how we can see the color?)
How the weapons work (gauss charge) -- Everyone has to deal with, it makes it inconvenient to kill a light when you're relying on the little f'er being hittable within the charged window. The farther out they are, the easier it is, the closer in however, it gets tricky especially if they're right on top of you because then you're attempting to get them in front of the actual gun, NOT the targeting reticule, and again, limited pitch/yaw speed and range of torso can complicate that tremendously.
Dimento Graven, on 19 February 2020 - 01:56 PM, said:
Lights SHOULD be the weakest class, they're LIGHT 'mechs for god's sake.
ONLY IN MWO has the light enjoyed being "on par" with other 'mechs. In no other version of the game that I can think of would a light pilot even want to be SEEN by a larger 'mech, let alone run headlong right into one.
It makes ZERO sense that lights get to jam themselves into the rear of a heavier 'mech with impunity, get to smash into legs with near negligible damage, get to enjoy physics breaking maneuverability, so on and so forth. None of that ever existed pre MWO.
And apparently that's the dynamic you're defending tooth and nail to defend.
A 'mech that accidentally gets out of position MUST absolutely pay for it, but a LIGHT that 'accidentally' jams itself into another 'mech isn't supposed to worry about anything, apparently.
Assaults SHOULD be "assaults" and lights SHOULD be "lights", period.
By the way some of you keep mentioning these stats about light 'mechs being least scoring, least survivable, so on and so forth.
Where are these stats at?
I've googled it various ways, but apparently am not coming up with the right words/phrase that brings it up in the first half dozen pages.
I'm curious about these stats and wish to review them, especially if they are detailed enough to be chassis specific.
Agility buffs are needed for many underperforming mechs, including some assaults, but not ALL assaults and not ONLY assaults. Drop into a Firestarter and tell me that bad agility is only an assault problem. And on the other hand take a look at Annis and the Sleipnir. Both mechs perform exceptionally well and neither really needs an agility buff imo (granted these are on opposite ends of the spectrum with the Sleipnir being an extremely agile assault, and the Anni being among the lowest agility mechs if not the lowest).
Any agility buffs should be made to bring underperforming chassis up to a decent level of performance if possible. They shouldn't just be applied across the board or you'll just see power creep and you will see balance tip further in favor of assaults. Underperformers in other classes can get agility buffs or other buffs to bring them up as well, and the relative strength of the classes overall can be more or less preserved, something you obviously are not interested in.
Re: new features not being nerfs or buffs
Adding a new feature can still be a nerf. Any change can be a nerf or a buff. You're just deciding arbitrarily that if enough of something is changed or introduced it doesn't count against balance. That's just nonsensical. Also, how the heck do you implement knockdowns without stunlock? Do you want the mech to continue on as normal but just have an animation that shows it falling down while it continues on at 140kph? This argument is just nonsense Dimento.
Re: getting ganked by lights:
First off I am not sure how colorblindness factors in here, but I am definitely in favor of things like UIs that are readable for people with various forms of colorblindness. I'm not sure how that came up, but there it is. I don't think that should be controversial, and I actually think it's shameful how PGI has done nothing about this for all this time.
Saying you are fighting the limitations of your mech (whether they are agility stats, gauss mechanics, or whatever else) is just saying you are not playing well. We all deal with these limitations and they are a part of the overall balance equation. I wouldn't say nothing should be changed, but I definitely do not think anything should be changed to make it easier for assaults to kill lights. It's already easy enough. As a light if you run into a streak mech, poke out at the wrong time against basically any medium or larger, or make any one of a million other small errors or encounter just a touch of bad luck you're dead. The same is not generally as true for bigger mechs due to their greater armor and firepower.
Re: lights should be the worst:
If assaults were simply buffed to be the absolute tops nobody would play anything but assaults and matches would be boring turret-warrior affairs. If you want to play a power-fantasy game go play MW5, or a previous MW title, or a singleplayer FPS. This is a competitive game and asymmetrical balance is one of the things that makes it fun and provides a variety of playstyles.
On a separate note, it'd be great if you took some time to think about this more holistically rather than being so focused on your personal desire to be able to mow everything down in your assault mech of choice. The game would be a whole lot worse off if decisions were made simply to buff one class or one mech at the expense of all others, and the state of the game is bad enough as it is. You might also find you have an easier time dealing with lights if you played them and saw things through their eyes. As an example, you might recognize that PPFD is the bane of every light mech as it can shear a component right off. I know you love to chain-fire AC2s, but if I see that and I'm in a light I just know my opponent is likely to miss a lot and is definitely going to spread damage. It doesn't scare me one bit. If I see the same mech firing all at once I'll have to be more cautious about my approach because 10-12 PPFD can hurt quite a bit especially given the fire-rate of AC2s.
You're not helping yourself by blaming the game and being stuck in your ways.
Edited by Brauer, 19 February 2020 - 09:14 PM.
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