1579 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Sjorpha, on 29 April 2020 - 01:24 AM, said:

I thought it would be terrible but after playing last night with mj12 it was the opposite, a huge improvement over what I'm used to. The groups seemed to anchor the teams so there was less nascaring. It also felt less stompy than before.

Could just be luck though, we didn't really face any super strong groups I think.

I wasn't in your group Sjorpha but I noticed the exact same thing.. This new group queue is like scouting mode on steroids.. the lance tactics you can try are limitless and the fun factor for this game has gone up immensely..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 April 2020 - 09:07 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Thorqemada, on 29 April 2020 - 03:53 AM, said:

As i experienced combined Group-Solo-Queue- Play in the beginning of this game i can only imagine how horrible the experience must be for anyone not in a Group and as MWO has really next to no intuitive/convenient "Ingame Socializing Tool"

Actually they've been enjoying the less nascar and the more drop calling..

[Vxheous]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

You really are tunnel visioned to your own opinion.. how can you blatantly ignore all the positive feedback about this change in the forum?

You're going to get positive feedback mostly from average groups that finally get to play together since group queue died. Their match behaviors won't change, and they'll probably win about as much as they used to (around a 1.1-1.2 W/L). Where you're gonna get negative feedback is those that play primarily solo that are now getting fed to the shark groups, or get carried over and over by the shark groups. Over time, it will lower the solo population, with a potential for a group population uptick. The shark groups have mostly given negative feedback because they know how skewed they make the game.

Honestly, I think its bad to mix 4 mans into solo queue, but I'll take the fast queue, and I stomp regardless.

Edited by Vxheous, 29 April 2020 - 08:52 AM.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2020 - 08:39 AM, said:

I wasn't in your group Sjorpha but I noticed the exact same thing Sjorph.. This new group queue is like scouting mode on steroids.. the lance tactics you can try are limitless and the fun factor for this game has gone up immensely..

I dropped 14 matches last night mostly in a 4 man, but also in a 3. The main reason we didn't really see much nascar was the 3-4 of us knew that we could dictate the flow of the match. So we took power positions and a decent lance. It was fun in the sense that we had 2 matches against strong groups, won one lost one, and both of those matches were interesting on at least some level. But with the new SQ/GQ structure I don't see why I'd ever drop solo to get turbo-farmed by any decent group out there. It's kind of like FW, but the queue is faster and you pick a mech that will usually work on any QP map instead of a specialized mech for the map.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brain Cancer, on 29 April 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

Sure there is. Didn't you see that Twitch clip I posted earlier?

(Yes, that was humor.)

Four is definitely too many, two is honestly about the best you can do in solo queue without being greatly imbalancing in terms of sharks swimming the minnow tank. I watched people memebuilding with lances. I watched people going serious business with lances last night. 4 people with half a mind towards working together have a very large ripple effect, even if it's "hide behind the PUG and just pick your targets", never mind "We're good, we're together, and we're pushing your **** in all the way back up to your upper intestine."

Before they try max 2man groups.. they should try 3man's.. 2man's would be too restrictive and kill much of the fun of dropping with unit mates/friends.. yes 3man's can still influence a match but now there would be a greater chance for more groups on both sides to even things out.. anyway baby-steps are always better.. a lesson PGI never learned..

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2020 - 08:28 AM, said:

Then you're missin out on some fun son.. we rarely saw op groups on the other side yesterday.. Give it a chance.. you knows you might get better playing in a more organized environment than in chaotic solo queue

You're forgetting that I dropped with you guys many times in the past on my other account. Of course, I'm a lot better player now, maybe even passed you up.

I want a opportunity to win and contribute as a solo in any match I drop in. I feel that as long as RNG doesn't saddle me with too bad a team I have a shot at winning and making a real contribution in the old solo queue on almost any drop even with a top player on the opposing team.

I don't feel like I really have much of a shot against any good 4-man dropping against me in mixed (lets call that any 4-man with a better than 300 avg match score). And that 4-man helps eliminate RNG factors in their favor (they know they're gonna have 4 good guys on one team). And if they drop on my side, I feel like my contribution won't matter nearly as much. It's just a function of the power of an organized group. I know how beneficial it can be. I watched a lot of streams yesterday. It doesn't look like any fun for a solo player, and the end of game stats tended to bear that out.

Winning is what I find fun. Close matches and being a valuable contributor to the win follow close behind. There is a lot less of that for solos with these changes. And I simply have no interest in finding a group. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Not for me anymore.

[DAEDALOS513]

Vxheous, on 29 April 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:

You're going to get positive feedback mostly from average groups that finally get to play together since group queue died. Their match behaviors won't change, and they'll probably win about as much as they used to (around a 1.1-1.2 W/L). Where you're gonna get negative feedback is those that play primarily solo that are now getting fed to the shark groups, or get carried over and over by the shark groups. Over time, it will lower the solo population, with a potential for a group population uptick. The shark groups have mostly given negative feedback because they know how skewed they make the game.

Honestly, I think its bad to mix 4 mans into solo queue, but I'll take the fast queue, and I stomp regardless.

Well, if you read every message in this thread like I have you'll see many solo'ers are enjoying being able to drop in a more organized environment.. people are reinstalling the game for a chance to do so as well..

I agree, unless population goes up and (as bad as it is) PSR starts to work again, 4mans are a bit too strong, but it's a step in the right direction.. we need the results from this experiment to compare for later analysis when and if they try 3mans (which I would prefer).

You gotta admit, it's so great to see all this excitement over a game we long thought was written off..

[Spare Knight]

I only played solo last night and I had a pretty good evening. There were some stomps, but not more than normal. I saw more drop calling. I saw more teamwork.

Some adjustments need to be made, but for a start, it turned out much better than I expected.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 29 April 2020 - 08:59 AM, said:

I dropped 14 matches last night mostly in a 4 man, but also in a 3. The main reason we didn't really see much nascar was the 3-4 of us knew that we could dictate the flow of the match. So we took power positions and a decent lance. It was fun in the sense that we had 2 matches against strong groups, won one lost one, and both of those matches were interesting on at least some level. But with the new SQ/GQ structure I don't see why I'd ever drop solo to get turbo-farmed by any decent group out there. It's kind of like FW, but the queue is faster and you pick a mech that will usually work on any QP map instead of a specialized mech for the map.

If you're playing to win, and only to win, you're doing it wrong. You can't' win em all, and you certainly won't by dropping solo. When I drop solo, (and I say this to all the players that get frustrated over losing a match) I try to max out my potential in a drop.. at the end I check my score relative to others and the mech I brought.. if I did my part, to me that's a win. But on top of that I try to see if could have done better and where I went wrong.. you only get better through adversity.. trial by fire..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 April 2020 - 09:26 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 29 April 2020 - 09:07 AM, said:

You're forgetting that I dropped with you guys many times in the past on my other account. Of course, I'm a lot better player now, maybe even passed you up.

I want a opportunity to win and contribute as a solo in any match I drop in. I feel that as long as RNG doesn't saddle me with too bad a team I have a shot at winning and making a real contribution in the old solo queue on almost any drop even with a top player on the opposing team.

I don't feel like I really have much of a shot against any good 4-man dropping against me in mixed (lets call that any 4-man with a better than 300 avg match score). And that 4-man helps eliminate RNG factors in their favor (they know they're gonna have 4 good guys on one team). And if they drop on my side, I feel like my contribution won't matter nearly as much. It's just a function of the power of an organized group. I know how beneficial it can be. I watched a lot of streams yesterday. It doesn't look like any fun for a solo player, and the end of game stats tended to bear that out.

Winning is what I find fun. Close matches and being a valuable contributor to the win follow close behind. There is a lot less of that for solos with these changes. And I simply have no interest in finding a group. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Not for me anymore.

If you don't feel like you're contributing, you're doing something wrong.. either your positioning is off or your builds are weak.. you have to figure out what it is.. don't blame this game mode for that. This is your chance to improve..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 April 2020 - 09:28 AM.

[Sryiwook]

this is crap you seldom see anything but a 12-1 or a12-2 out come at all and even when you have a 4 man on you team many of them are bringing such crap load outs that they serve no useful purpose (a 4 man with lrms and no lasers no tag totally useless) need less say another 12-1 stomping another one we had 11 mediums 1 heavy the other team 4 assaults and 4 heavy WTF kind of balance is that on a brawler map i cannot see why i should keep playing it is getting so bad and they supposedly could change this on the fly right well change it then!!!!

Edited by Sryiwook, 29 April 2020 - 09:31 AM.

[Larsh]

Brain Cancer, on 29 April 2020 - 08:08 AM, said:

Data is good, data informs discussions. Please and thank you.

Hi Brain, here is some more info. Let me know if you want to see anything else. I want to be a team player here in the forums, and help with whatever I can give. My goal is to be impartial on everything here, and just looking for the facts.

If people don't mind my ugly mug, and our group's bantering, the full stream is also on my YouTube with full chapter links.

On the following data points I will try my best to do a short summary of each match. It can be hard to give a lot of detail without this post being overly large. Please keep in mind, that we played mostly in a 4 man group, and we made attempts to use both Voip and Discord chat to communicate to our team. I only bring this up, as we found that when we communicated with Voip, we had good turn outs.

I won't go too much in to tonnage as that would make this post longer as well. Photo links are included with each match to give an eye on how tonnage was spread for each team.

Game 1
Tourmaline Assault - 2 man group - https://imgur.com/Ul67KdG
Victory
12 - 8
Decent comms from pugs made for decent coordination. Our 2 man group had highest damage numbers for our team.


Game 2
Polar Conquest - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/DwzsGa2.png
Defeat - Loss on Conquest Time
Our team - Lost 5 Mechs
Opposing Team - Lost 11 Mechs
Decent comms from pugs to kill other mechs. Lost on time out. Our 4 man had mid range numbers for our team.


Game 3
Canyon Skirmish - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/H7fImPy.png
Defeat
12 - 2
Not much comms. Had some poor positioning for a loss. Our 4 man had mid range numbers for our team.


Game 4
Viridian Domination - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/KvNIcSt.png
Victory
12 - 2
Not much comms, only some here and there on spotting. Domination point on Bog seemed to have been moved from standard area. Our 4 man had average range numbers for our team.


Game 5
Caustic Incursion - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/WvQs0BL.png
Victory
12 - 6
Not much comms. Relied on mostly Discord comms, and teaching player how to play this game mode. Our team was behind / at a standstill / at the beginning of the match, then made for a decent push when an opening was found. Our 4 man had higher than average range numbers for our team.


Game 6
Tourmaline Domination - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/8WvjZGf.png
Defeat - Loss on Conquest Time
Our Team - Lost 11 Mechs
Opposing Team - Lost 5 Mechs
Not much comms. Relied on mostly Discord comms. Lost due to poor position on our end, and taking mechs that some were not accustomed to. Our 4 man had average range numbers for our team, but low numbers overall.


Game 7
Frozen Domination - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/XyGDJLS.png
Defeat - Loss on Conquest Time
Our Team - Lost 9 Mechs
Opposing Team - Lost 2 Mechs
Some open comms from pugs. Lost due to team being spread out, and leaving capture circle. Our 4 man had average range numbers for our team, but low numbers overall. Mine were exceptionally low.


Game 8
Caustic Conquest - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/RUk9ayy.png
Victory
12 - 2
Decent comms between Voip and Discord to organize and spot. Our 4 man had above average range numbers for our team.


Game 9
Mining Assault - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/5x7oyJS.png
Victory
12 - 8
Most comms done over Discord, with some Voip calls later in the match. One of the closer matches we had that night. Our 4 man had slightly above average range numbers for our team.


Game 10
Mining Domination - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/sdEqdLZ.png (sorry for twitch chat covering some here)
Victory
Our Team - Lost 7 Mechs
Opposing Team - Lost 11 Mechs
Decent comms from pugs and Discord made for decent coordination. Another close match. Our 4 man had above average range numbers for our team.


Game 11
Forest Classic Skirmish - 4 man group - https://i.imgur.com/dsWcOcn.png
Defeat
12 - 8
Decent comms from pugs and Discord made for decent coordination. We took this last match as a different approach as we took 3 Zeus Hero mechs with MASC to rush via cave on Classic Forest colony. Mini map shows team followed the lead as we tried to get a win. Our damage was lower as we acted as the tip of the spear to take most of the damage from the enemy.

Edited by Larsh, 29 April 2020 - 09:38 AM.

[kapusta11]

Matchmaker used to randomly stack .5%ers on one side because it couldn't discern them from someone who just played a lot so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

[Alreech]

Anomalocaris, on 29 April 2020 - 04:36 AM, said:

Alt accounts are not illegal

Matching alt-accounts with the tier rating of the main account to reduce smurfing isn't illegal too

[Vxheous]

Alreech, on 29 April 2020 - 09:42 AM, said:

Matching alt-accounts with the tier rating of the main account to reduce smurfing isn't illegal too

I don't think any actual high skilled players are smurfing in this game.

[Brauer]

kapusta11, on 29 April 2020 - 09:42 AM, said:

Matchmaker used to randomly stack .5%ers on one side because it couldn't discern them from someone who just played a lot so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Part of the issue I see is that 1) you can now stack a team with 4 high level players consistently by playing in a group, and 2) stacking a group with 4 high level players is effectively the new meta.

Old solo queue had plenty of problems, but a working pilot skill rating could have helped them. Introducing groups to solo doesn't really solve the core matchmaking problem (other than to rapidly create matches atm) and (in my mind at least) eliminates the relatively safe for casuals old solo queue.

[Ruediger Steiner]

I have a brilliant idea to solve all the problems and make everybody happy.
We create a new mode called "Battle Royal" for all those nascar loving, meta hating and non team playing people.
It´s like QP, but 24 solo players kill each other till only 1 Mech remains.
No problems with team damage.
Solo players being happy.
And most importantly, they don´t **** up a team based game anymore.
Deal?

[Alreech]

Kiran Yagami, on 29 April 2020 - 08:11 AM, said:

This unbelievably stupid decision PGI made is. I was happy with solo queue the way it was. If I wanted to run as a group, I joined GROUP QUEUE. The thing designed for it.
There is nothing the current quick play offers to me that was not already available in group queue of faction play form. What I have lost is any possibility of an experience of pure solo play. That is gone from the game. Removed entirely, and it ain't a good thing.

If you have not noticed it:
Many players who want to drop in a group queue during the last 2 years waited up to 20 minutes to get a match.

Some went instead sync dropping in Solo
Some went to faction play
Others stop playing

I am not happy either with the idea to let small groups play in Solo.
IMHO fixing group size to 4/8/12 max and allowing Solo Players to drop into group to fill up will the better way.

Vxheous, on 29 April 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

I don't think any actual high skilled players are smurfing in this game.

Then should a "4 player group of high skilled players using an alt account to cheat tier level during matchmaking" not be an argument against groups playing in solo...

[Brain Cancer]

Larsh, on 29 April 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

Hi Brain, here is some more info. Let me know if you want to see anything else. I want to be a team player here in the forums, and help with whatever I can give. My goal is to be impartial on everything here, and just looking for the facts.

If people don't mind my ugly mug, and our group's bantering, the full stream is also on my YouTube with full chapter links.

On the following data points I will try my best to do a short summary of each match. It can be hard to give a lot of detail without this post being overly large. Please keep in mind, that we played mostly in a 4 man group, and we made attempts to use both Voip and Discord chat to communicate to our team. I only bring this up, as we found that when we communicated with Voip, we had good turn outs.

Just some crunching here.

Larsh's group went 5-6. In the five wins, one was a 2-man, four were 4-man.

In the wins:

The 2-man group went 1-2 for damage and tied for kills (2) with much of the team.
The 4-man groups picked up 6/10 (enemy had two selfkills), 9/12 kills, 6/12 kills, and 7/10 kills(1 selfkill, one survivor, hi Louis!) respectively.

Damage counts varied owing to multiple chassis choices.

In the losses:
The enemy 4-man groups won the game once by simply having a sole survivor (Conquest by points, survivor also got top kills with 2/4), contributed very little in another while a sync-dropping pair of Annies cleaned up (2 kills, top 1-2 damage for the Annie pair vs 2/12 kills for the 4-man...but disturbingly, this was actually effectively 2 groups on one), got 5/11 in the next (one selfkill), 3/9 in another win by circle owning, and 6/11 in the last enemy win.

Weight discrepencies are off the charts, though for all of this. The commonly mentioned pile of assault 'Mechs per match, namely.

Wishmast3r, on 29 April 2020 - 09:55 AM, said:

I have a brilliant idea to solve all the problems and make everybody happy.
We create a new mode called "Battle Royal" for all those nascar loving, meta hating and non team playing people.
It´s like QP, but 24 solo players kill each other till only 1 Mech remains.
No problems with team damage.
Solo players being happy.
And most importantly, they don´t **** up a team based game anymore.
Deal?

Ironically, PGI is incapable of this and has said as much.

Funny, huh?

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2020 - 09:24 AM, said:

If you're playing to win, and only to win, you're doing it wrong. You can't' win em all, and you certainly won't by dropping solo. When I drop solo, (and I say this to all the players that get frustrated over losing a match) I try to max out my potential in a drop.. at the end I check my score relative to others and the mech I brought.. if I did my part, to me that's a win. But on top of that I try to see if could have done better and where I went wrong.. you only get better through adversity.. trial by fire..

I don't play only to win, but I enjoy winning and I enjoy playing with a group of people I've gotten to know through our unit and through comp. I think you may be misunderstanding my perspective on this. I was fine with the old solo queue because everyone queued into the matchmaker on relatively equal terms and sometimes you got a bad team, sometimes you got a strong team. Sometimes I'd throw the game, sometimes I'd carry it. With the new system it seems to me that queueing up as a solo player puts me at a significant disadvantage from the start. I don't particularly care to sign up for that, so I'll just keep planning my solo queue time (and by extension the majority of my MWO time) around when one or more of my friends is available.

I'm not quite sure where the piece about self-improvement fits in there. I've been quite willing to take a harsh look at my own performance across game modes in the past and seek to take responsibility for my mistakes and identify how my team can do better. When we lost last night against Vxheous and co. we discussed why we lost and how we could adjust our mech choices to give them a better fight the next time around. I am trying to get better each round. I can see with the way the new combined queue works that the easy way to reach better performance is to simply drop with the players I've met through comp.