1579 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

Kiran Yagami, on 29 April 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

From the "group" side of the change, everything seems ok... but not really. When I have my normal teammates on, or even just one or two of them, winning matches is almost a breeze. I can play more like I did in group queue or FP. Even as a duo, I saw other 4 man premades on my team and then I struggled to even find enemies to kill. Most things evaporated before I could engage. Lance placements make absolutely no sense now. We beat more than one other premade on Canyon who had annihilators spawn in alpha lance, where they start in the valley with no ramps in sight. Those poor schmucks never made it out of that valley. They were swarmed by mediums and lights before they ever had a chance to play.

From the "solo" side, everything sucks. LOL. I know there was a big hoo ha about "I'll get to do teamwork with the elites!", but having already played with the elites, I knew that wasn't going to be the case at all. They're more than happy to let you die so they can go on to win the match on their own. Premade teams are all in their own Discord and largely ignore VOIP if they even have it turned on. My contribution as a solo player was mostly erased in any match with a half decent premade. Either they went on to slaughter the enemy so quickly that I couldn't even get in damage, or I was the one being slaughtered quickly. Again, match quality was non-existent. So many 12-0 matches, when before a match had to be exceptionally bad to hit 12-0. My desire to play the game solo at all is pretty much zero. It's either group or get farmed. That kinda sucks.

Just want to second the piece about lance placement. It seems groups are always placed in alpha lance, which creates some problems on some maps. I'm not sure if there's an easy solution to this, but it'd be nice to not have potential spawn points on some maps dictate mech choices as much. Dropping in an assault without JJs into alpha lance on the south side of Canyon doesn't feel particularly great for example, and I'd argue is about on par with dropping in an uber slow assault or heavy in the orphan bravo Lance on HPG.

Edited by Brauer, 29 April 2020 - 06:23 AM.

[AndiMech]

Kiran Yagami, on 29 April 2020 - 05:27 AM, said:

...I know there was a big hoo ha about "I'll get to do teamwork with the elites!", but having already played with the elites, I knew that wasn't going to be the case at all. They're more than happy to let you die so they can go on to win the match on their own. Premade teams are all in their own Discord and largely ignore VOIP if they even have it turned on. My contribution as a solo player was mostly erased in any match with a half decent premade. Either they went on to slaughter the enemy so quickly that I couldn't even get in damage, or I was the one being slaughtered quickly. Again, match quality was non-existent. So many 12-0 matches, when before a match had to be exceptionally bad to hit 12-0. My desire to play the game solo at all is pretty much zero. It's either group or get farmed. That kinda sucks.

When I drop call, i can normally only call one or two matches, then i am simply exhausted. Do you know how ****** hard it is to CONSTANDLY have to tell people to hold the line, dont wander off.. you feel like a ******* dog barking while herding sheep... cause calling something once or twice doesn't suffice, you have to constandly open mini map or turn away from the fight look whats the name/s of the idiot/s wandering off this time is/are...
Thats why i only drop called after i got pissed when i had 5 losses due to teams running all over the place, in a row...

And now you want to blame people for not "teamworking"? People who have tried countless times?
Well, next time just ask them, maybe they will try "once more".. tried it? well do please!
I for once know what to do the rest of my friend know what to do, and we call targets over discord, cause that constant babble about "hello how are you guys"/"how is it going"/"uh nice atlas what you got on it", "uh really, i can't make that work", "anyone else having problems with HOTAS on MW5, its working perfectly in MWO", only makes us mute talker after talker...
Noone is the "BATTLE COMMS GUYS!" type... but c'mon, geez?!?
Also if 50% jarls dropcall-junkies(i would love to say you know who you are, but "dunning-kruger-effect") want to tell the 4 guys who hold the line against the ******* nascar whats what... you are better off turning down the volume down or mute them on ingame VOIP...
And maybe you are right, all these annoying things on ingame VOIP make you neglect it... BUT how often do you try something, when your efforts get ****** every time?
ALSO my friends and me always look that the team around us isn't dying, noone sends willingly pugs to their deaths as you say...

we even look that we can manage to try telling people, who go are going to their ensured death, to stop... every match...

Why? (No, dont say pug shields, thats diminishing) But you live longer in a line of 12 mechs, that in a line of 8 or 4... no good pilot(except the ones in lights of course) is shielding behind anyone, cause that way someone constandly runs in your firing line..
And no, noone of that backhill ac2/erll campers can be called a good player... they are the same like [redacted] who run into the enemy straight to get killed... or running around playing "sorry scout only".. or LRM 100t in the backfield, while mediums have to tank in the front... or doing their own ****, getting the rest of the team killed!
SO guys please i once again ask for your support .. to lower your mouse sensitivity, back-armor <8 and try to twist, and dont shout!

[Nearly Dead]

If I had known that the game was going to commit suicide I would not have invested in a headset, gaming mouse and 6 months of premium time.

What a waste this has been.


GLHF

[Cluster Fox]

I don't post often, kept quiet for a few years but now I care about this.
Trying to be as unbiased as possible here and suggesting improvements, I hope Paul reads this. I think the experience is worse for groups and generally better for solo players, let me explain:

Group side:
8v8 was a much better group experience. We can man a 8 group on most nights and being limited to 4 made us unable to drop together. That's a serious fun-killer. Not being able to drop with our friends, the whole idea behind group queue, was the largest downside.

As a group of 4, we took the lead coordinating tactics and it worked in most drops. Basically, we played along with the test in good faith. It worked, we got stompy, and the solos with us enjoyed the wins.

Solo side:
I think the increased teamwork is putting current METAs in jeopardy (like badNascar) and that is good. Experience is mixed.
- Bad experience as a solo when the group visibly ignores you and pulls their own stuff, using you as fodder for their tactics.
- Good experience when the group takes the lead and pulls a coordinated tactic, calls some targets and gets the comms going.
Overall, if the groups are team playing, you can have a better experience as a solo playing along with them. Expected stomp rate is 40% for, 40% against, 20% close match, so taking this into account it's not really worse than usual.


Tier system seems to be turned off. Maybe a bug, maybe a trick to lower the wait times, but we've noticed an impact on balance. Our group T1-2, dropping against a 12 man with 2 cadets. Poor guys, that was a hard stomp 12-0.

Please bring back the 8v8 experience, but keep 12v12 like this.
8v8 Allow groups of 5,6,7,8 to be matched in 8v8. No 8v8 match unless there's another 5,6,7,8 to match with. Fill in the blanks with small groups first, then high tier solos as required.
12v12 Groups of 4 and below can be mixed in with solo queue for 12v12 like it is right now.
That's assuming MM trying it's best to balance group numbers on each side, and at least tier #.

That's my 2 c-bills, a simple suggestion, I hope that's easy enough to implement. Sure it's not a perfect idea, but I believe there's some pros to the 12v12 with groups, and the 8v8 was a better experience.

Edited by Cluster Fox, 29 April 2020 - 07:18 AM.

[Safaridog]

Comments from a solo noob. I started playing this game when we went into lock down. Last night it seemed that the games were more 1 sided than usual, not too many close matches. However the que wait times were noticeable faster for me. This is the first day of the changes and I suspect they will probably be doing rolling tweaks over the next 4 weeks, so I'll give it more time before I decide to move on or not. I suck *** anyhow so the losing part doesn't bother me hahaha.

[Horseman]

Anjin, on 28 April 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

Several matches where one side vastly outmatches the other. 4 assaults to zero. 5 to 1. This isn't sustainable.

Looks like everything follows GQ matchmaking logic, only solos are treated as groups of one. This means no tier separation and no tonnage balancing.

Tranderas, on 28 April 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:

I'm enjoying watching people complain about people better than them. The matchmaker isn't biased, they aren't trying to make your lives miserable.

The MM isn't biased... it's just full of ****.

crazytimes, on 28 April 2020 - 06:35 PM, said:

Has the tier MM been turned off completely?

Unconfirmed reports indicate it may have been.

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

You guys are vicious.. all you guys harping on him have low self esteem and it shows.. all he said was he's having a run of good luck against groups in his light and having some fun.. get a life and leave him alone. I swear the ego on some ppl.

You're overtly reading into others' posts on one side and ignoring things he actually wrote on the other.

Larsh, on 28 April 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

Had some time to stream some gameplay, and wanted to place the stats of tonight's match ups from what I had playing with a group.
Wins: 6
Losses: 5

Mind you, 11 matches is too few to be indicative. Collect stats from some 40-50 matches (including some solo drops) and you have something to work with

Edited by Horseman, 29 April 2020 - 11:34 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Cluster Fox, on 29 April 2020 - 07:00 AM, said:

I hope Paul reads this.

AndiMech, on 29 April 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

[redacted]

Back when FW was CW people asked to separate groups from solos in CW like it was done in QP, because unit premade farming was a big thing then, reinforced by the fact that CW matches and the whole farming thing last longer than in QP. Devs listened and separated the units. By unit tags. So ungrouped tag-bearers played against tagged premades and tag-less solos played against tag-less premades. People complained it was not at all what they wanted and not how it is done in QP, so devs reverted things and foresworn to touch it ever again. So even if they do read this there is absolutely no guarantee they will do what you think you tell them to do

[Larsh]

Horseman, on 29 April 2020 - 07:20 AM, said:

Mind you, 11 matches is too few to be indicative. Collect stats from some 40-50 matches (including some solo drops) and you have something to work with

Yea 11 is not much yet, but since I'm still working from home during this lockdown I don't have much time besides the evening to hop on. 11 is a start at least, and plan on recording what I find through the month, mainly on weekends.

Edited by Larsh, 29 April 2020 - 07:31 AM.

[Zephrym]

Having played some games last night and this morning i've spent all day thinking about my experiences and what to write. Quite frankly, i'm not going to waste too much time.

I'm a casual, here to have fun. I steadily improved from my early trial-by-fire, sought advice, learned with teams, watched vids and am a reasonably competent (93%) when not drunk or derping!

I miss CW from the days before long-tom.....when this game was great
I adapted to the engine de-sync....the game was ok but many friends left
I scratched my head at the volumetric scaling, but adapted.....fun could still be had but more friends left
I was saddened to hear the game was put in maintenance mode.....but I stuck with it despite TS hubs being empty most of the time.
This though, after all the good effort that was made to highlight the potential disaster-in-waiting and the need for an effective PSR system.

Enough is enough. I suspect all is fine and dandy during US/CAN prime time. But as a Brit, I only get the chance for a stupidly late night once a week.

This new state of play that i've experienced is truly abysmal.

I reckon i'll take a break for a few weeks and see if, miraculously for the first time in my memory, Paul changes his mind.

GLHF

Zeph.

[Brain Cancer]

Larsh, on 28 April 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

Had some time to stream some gameplay, and wanted to place the stats of tonight's match ups from what I had playing with a group.

What would you say your lance's contribution to the win were compared to the rest of the team? How much "carry" was going on, were you disproportionantely delivering on damage/kills vs. the soloers with you?

[Larsh]

Brain Cancer, on 29 April 2020 - 07:53 AM, said:

What would you say your lance's contribution to the win were compared to the rest of the team? How much "carry" was going on, were you disproportionantely delivering on damage/kills vs. the soloers with you?

I can grab you screenshots, and more info if you want. I just didn't want to flood the chat with a whole list page of items.
I'll go over each, in a little back to report back to ya.

[AndiMech]

Zephrym, on 29 April 2020 - 07:44 AM, said:

...but I stuck with it despite TS hubs being empty most of the time.

Well many/most of the remaining teams/units moved on to discord so....
I could give you some servers there that are often populated on EU Prime, and also good gossip/build/news sources. Starting with the MWOComp Server https://discord.gg/CJqJjV.
Everyone is welcome on our unit-discord also...

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 28 April 2020 - 09:54 PM, said:

Nothing good is coming from this.

You really are tunnel visioned to your own opinion.. how can you blatantly ignore all the positive feedback about this change in the forum?

[Brain Cancer]

justcallme A S H, on 28 April 2020 - 09:54 PM, said:

Even knocking off 70T isn't gonna make a shred of difference. Because it will affect everyone... And good players will continue to make a mockery of all of this. Casuals will, for the majority hate it more and more...

Nothing good is coming from this.

Sure there is. Didn't you see that Twitch clip I posted earlier?

(Yes, that was humor.)

Four is definitely too many, two is honestly about the best you can do in solo queue without being greatly imbalancing in terms of sharks swimming the minnow tank. I watched people memebuilding with lances. I watched people going serious business with lances last night. 4 people with half a mind towards working together have a very large ripple effect, even if it's "hide behind the PUG and just pick your targets", never mind "We're good, we're together, and we're pushing your **** in all the way back up to your upper intestine."

[Brain Cancer]

RickySpanish, on 29 April 2020 - 06:12 AM, said:

B-b-but senpai! If only PGI had listened to them all along! It'd be roses and unicorns and rainbow puppies forever and ever.

PGI rarely listens. PGI merely gets annoyed with something and then finds creative ways to break it, other than whatever stimulated sales of Mechpacks. That there are very few actual decent players of the game PGI develops in their own ranks has also been a long-standing complaint, and it's shown repeatedly in development decisions and errors.

It wouldn't be all rose gardens, but it certainly also wouldn't be a few weeds struggling to rise about a growing pile of manure either.

[DAEDALOS513]

live1991, on 28 April 2020 - 11:07 PM, said:

Why dont you group as two if you want to make it harder ?
Your top 1% player, and at a guess playing with other top 3% players plus players.
I would say your team would always have a high change to win, even if its veruse a full premade 12 man.

They would never do that.. the top 1% are top 1% for a reason.. they only pilot meta and never without their possee..
I despise meta and enjoy a challenge.. I'm always up for trying to make strange builds work using teamwork.. for example some of the weird sh*t we ran yesterday was a 3man of lrm jenners, and streak huggin's.. the losses were just as fun as the wins because you get a rush from trying to make dumb mechs work.. and stay alive long enough to get decent results..

There is absolutely no reward in piloting pir's, veagles, or any meta in my eyes other than to fill ego's..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 April 2020 - 08:24 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Larsh, on 29 April 2020 - 07:58 AM, said:

I can grab you screenshots, and more info if you want. I just didn't want to flood the chat with a whole list page of items.
I'll go over each, in a little back to report back to ya.

Data is good, data informs discussions. Please and thank you.

[R Valentine]

AndiMech, on 29 April 2020 - 06:27 AM, said:

When I drop call, i can normally only call one or two matches, then i am simply exhausted. Do you know how ****** hard it is to CONSTANDLY have to tell people to hold the line, dont wander off.. you feel like a ******* dog barking while herding sheep... cause calling something once or twice doesn't suffice, you have to constandly open mini map or turn away from the fight look whats the name/s of the idiot/s wandering off this time is/are...
Thats why i only drop called after i got pissed when i had 5 losses due to teams running all over the place, in a row...

And now you want to blame people for not "teamworking"? People who have tried countless times?
Well, next time just ask them, maybe they will try "once more".. tried it? well do please!
I for once know what to do the rest of my friend know what to do, and we call targets over discord, cause that constant babble about "hello how are you guys"/"how is it going"/"uh nice atlas what you got on it", "uh really, i can't make that work", "anyone else having problems with HOTAS on MW5, its working perfectly in MWO", only makes us mute talker after talker...
Noone is the "BATTLE COMMS GUYS!" type... but c'mon, geez?!?
Also if 50% jarls dropcall-junkies(i would love to say you know who you are, but "dunning-kruger-effect") want to tell the 4 guys who hold the line against the ******* nascar whats what... you are better off turning down the volume down or mute them on ingame VOIP...
And maybe you are right, all these annoying things on ingame VOIP make you neglect it... BUT how often do you try something, when your efforts get ****** every time?
ALSO my friends and me always look that the team around us isn't dying, noone sends willingly pugs to their deaths as you say...

we even look that we can manage to try telling people, who go are going to their ensured death, to stop... every match...

Why? (No, dont say pug shields, thats diminishing) But you live longer in a line of 12 mechs, that in a line of 8 or 4... no good pilot(except the ones in lights of course) is shielding behind anyone, cause that way someone constandly runs in your firing line..
And no, noone of that backhill ac2/erll campers can be called a good player... they are the same like idiots who run into the enemy straight to get killed... or running around playing "sorry scout only".. or LRM 100t in the backfield, while mediums have to tank in the front... or doing their own ****, getting the rest of the team killed!
SO guys please i once again ask for your support .. to lower your mouse sensitivity, back-armor <8 and try to twist, and dont shout!

Don't get me wrong. You are not to blame. This unbelievably stupid decision PGI made is. I was happy with solo queue the way it was. If I wanted to run as a group, I joined GROUP QUEUE. The thing designed for it. There is nothing the current quick play offers to me that was not already available in group queue of faction play form. What I have lost is any possibility of an experience of pure solo play. That is gone from the game. Removed entirely, and it ain't a good thing.

[Brain Cancer]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2020 - 08:07 AM, said:

They would never do that.. the top 1% are top 1% for a reason.. they only pilot meta and never without their possee..
I despise meta and I enjoy a challenge.. I'm always up for trying to make strange build work using teamwork.. for example yesterday we tried 3man of lrm jenners, and huggin's.. the losses were just as fun as the wins because you get a rush from trying to make dumb mechs work.. and stay alive long enough to get decent results..

There is absolutely no reward in piloting pir's, veagles, or any meta in my eyes other than to fill ego's..

I literally watched Fragasaurus Rex, B33f, Sean Lang, and company deliberately go into a match with 3 lurmboats and a NARC Raven on stream last night. Repeatedly. Heck, I even posted a SS's of how well they did. I'd say they're about that skill level, right?

And there's certainly a reward in piloting good 'Mechs (and bad ones, but for the purpose of this exercise...)

It's called enjoying mining that passive-aggressive whinesalt because surely, it can't be you losing to your inferiors because they were better, it MUST be because they picked a chassis that performs better!

I mean, we've played in the same matches. It's fun. I put a few dozen ATMs downrange and you blew up and then somehow, the "meta" Vapor Eagles and such get blamed when I'm actually trotting along in an Orion IIC or a Sun Spider going along saying "atms blow robot up gud brrrrrr".

Beats the people who get salty about my LRMs when I'm not even using LRMs.

But I have yet to find a chassis that is the perfect, everyone must use muh meta one. There's ones that are good at X or Y, but they always have some kind of check somewhere against them. It's one of the few things I don't beef about in MWO at some point. PIR annoys? Streak destroys. Dakka is great? Well, so is lasers, or that Shadow Cat hopping along with dual ERPPCs, or I can get locks and drop bots.

In any case, it has jack-diddly to do with people taking lances into matches and dominating play. Which is what I kept seeing on streams. Even if a group lost, it was pretty darn obvious that they put more into the match than the other 8 guys- but that should have been obvious even before this month started. Teamwork and communication with familiar faces is a very powerful tool towards focusing on opponents.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 29 April 2020 - 01:03 AM, said:

Oh sod off. I'm not even playing because I only play solo and I have no desire to get rolled by a group of high skill players (like Magic Pain Glove did today when he dropped solo) or simply be along for the ride if they drop on my team.

Then you're missin out on some fun son.. we rarely saw op groups on the other side yesterday.. Give it a chance.. who knows you might get better playing in a more organized environment than in chaotic solo queue

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 29 April 2020 - 09:07 AM.