1579 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

When the match Quality becomes better that means the amount of good Players in a given match has increased - the reason why is yet to determined!

Is it a time of day thing?
Have unexperienced Players become better?
Have experienced Players come back?
Have "bad" Players left the Playerpool?

We dont know yet!

[Weeny Machine]

FRAGTAST1C, on 02 May 2020 - 07:58 AM, said:

Dude, the Pros do that on a regular basis. But even they can only take so much stubborness and stupidity at a time. Like MPG is pointing out, just check the streams of the top players on Twitch and you can see for yourself.

The bigger problem is that if the 4-man Pros try to hold the hands of newbies who can't even aim, then they're going to lose. So, fix the PSR first and when people come up through the tiers by merit of playing well, then the switch between PUG-play and Team-Play will be way easier than for someone who can't aim, brings bad builds constantly and then stubbornly argues against logic.

What do you want or expect?

You put organized top level players [Redacted] in a mode which has tier differentiation issues (not that tiers really play a role) because the playerbase is small. So, of course you have utter inexperienced players, relatively bad plays and casual who just want to drop for the fun of a couple of matches.

You understand that there are people who play games to just have fun because they are competetive in their jobs?

If you guys don't want that, then why did you cry your little hearts out to be taken into this QP mode? Again if group mode is soooooo great and there are soooooooo many competetive guys, why is the original group mode quite dead?

Edited by GM Patience, 04 May 2020 - 02:17 PM.

[Khobai]

FRAGTAST1C, on 02 May 2020 - 07:58 AM, said:

Dude, the Pros do that on a regular basis. But even they can only take so much stubborness and stupidity at a time. Like MPG is pointing out, just check the streams of the top players on Twitch and you can see for yourself.

The bigger problem is that if the 4-man Pros try to hold the hands of newbies who can't even aim, then they're going to lose. So, fix the PSR first and when people come up through the tiers by merit of playing well, then the switch between PUG-play and Team-Play will be way easier than for someone who can't aim, brings bad builds constantly and then stubbornly argues against logic.

no the bigger problem is that a 4-man of pros can stomp the entire enemy team themselves essentially turning every game they play in into a stomp.

since theres still no elo matchmaker and the tier system is meaningless, putting a group of 4 on each team doesnt necessarily mean both groups of 4 will be equally skilled.

which is why 4-mans absolutely cannot be allowed in solo queue. without a functional matchmaker it never should have been contemplated. even with an elo matchmaker it would still a bad idea because a matchmaker is unlikely to even work given the low player population.

PGI has tried 4-mans in solo queue before and it was an unmitigated disaster. PGI constantly repeats their same mistakes and never learns from them. They balance weapons in circles. And now theyre reigniting past dumpster fires with this mixed queue garbage and backtracking actual improvements like 8v8.

If you want groups to be able to play then improve faction warfare. But dont screw up the only good gamemode. And leave 8v8 alone because 12v12 has never been balanced, the game was designed for 8v8, so when you went to 12v12 it threw everything out of balance. Leave 12v12 to faction warfare where the faster TTK is mitigated by having respawns.

Edited by Khobai, 02 May 2020 - 10:40 AM.

[Anomalocaris]

Thorqemada, on 02 May 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

When the match Quality becomes better that means the amount of good Players in a given match has increased - the reason why is yet to determined!

Is it a time of day thing?
Have unexperienced Players become better?
Have experienced Players come back?
Have "bad" Players left the Playerpool?

We dont know yet!

I would amend your statement to say that the match quality seems better when the players are more equally matched.

During off hours, it appears there are fewer high skill groups dropping, so matches are left the vagaries and randomness of the matchmaker, and competitiveness seems better. But once prime time hits, then more high skill guys are grouping up and slaughtering the puggies. Occasionally you get multiple groups of high skill players facing each other and match quality improves.

Which brings us back to matchmaker, or lack thereof. While it was pretty crappy in SoloQ to begin with, player distribution was largely random. The introduction of groups not only made the overall matchmaker worse (eliminating any semblance of skill ranking by ignoring tiers) and eliminated tonnage/class matching, but it also introduced a non-random element of skill into the matches, namely the groups, which if composed of 4 high skill players, completely throws any sort of luck of the draw match balancing out the window.

Without matching by skill and particularly paying attention to groups, it will be impossible for PGI to eliminate this problem with tonnage, etc. They might be able to mitigate it by going down to 2mans, but even then high skill 2mans will dramatically shift the odds in favor of their team. Regardless, Russ has basically said skill matching really isn't an option at this point and its not high on their list of things to try. Which dooms this merged queue attempt to failure.

[Anomalocaris]

Weeny Machine, on 02 May 2020 - 10:22 AM, said:

What do you want or expect?

You put organized top level players [Redacted] in a mode which has tier differentiation issues (not that tiers really play a role) because the playerbase is small. So, of course you have utter inexperienced players, relatively bad plays and casual who just want to drop for the fun of a couple of matches.

You understand that there are people who play games to just have fun because they are competetive in their jobs?

If you guys don't want that, then why did you cry your little hearts out to be taken into this QP mode?

Can we lay off the "epeen" stuff? High skill doesn't mean no life, pasty skinned, basement dwellers. It just means they're better than most.

Believe it or not, most of the really good players out stomping in groups right now and posting the streams are actually on your side. They don't think this mix works either and they don't think its good for the health of the game. Let them demonstrate why and hopefully the response from the playerbase will be strong enough to get Russ and Paul to open their eyes.

[Brauer]

Weeny Machine, on 02 May 2020 - 10:22 AM, said:

What do you want or expect?

You put organized top level players [Redcted] in a mode which has tier differentiation issues (not that tiers really play a role) because the playerbase is small. So, of course you have utter inexperienced players, relatively bad plays and casual who just want to drop for the fun of a couple of matches.

You understand that there are people who play games to just have fun because they are competetive in their jobs?

If you guys don't want that, then why did you cry your little hearts out to be taken into this QP mode? Again if group mode is soooooo great and there are soooooooo many competetive guys, why is the original group mode quite dead?

Winning is fun.
Improving as a player is fun.
Competing is fun.

Not to mention that plenty of high performing players have successful personal and professional lives, and (from what I can tell) the majority of those players came out against merging GQ and solo queue.

[NeroWolfe]

This has been an unmitigated disaster.

Revert now.

[VonBruinwald]

Anomalocaris, on 02 May 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

Can we lay off the "epeen" stuff? High skill doesn't mean no life, pasty skinned, basement dwellers. It just means they're better than most.

Believe it or not, most of the really good players out stomping in groups right now and posting the streams are actually on your side.

Nothing wrong with calling out their EPeens. I know you are say there are stomping good players who are streaming on our side but it's not like anyone is forcing them to roll meta builds. I've yet to see drop all-flaming K-9's, no, instead of trying to make the matches interesting/entertaining they're out stomping to inflate their aforementioneds.

I'm not even seeing them banter in chat, ctrl+v a link is as good as they get.

I'm sure there's some good intentions but at the moment they're screaming "Save the Whales" while clubbing seals!

Edited by VonBruinwald, 02 May 2020 - 12:07 PM.

[Horseman]

Weeny Machine, on 02 May 2020 - 10:22 AM, said:

You understand that there are people who play games to just have fun because they are competetive in their jobs?

I am playing the game to have fun. Contributing to my team's victory through whatever means available is fun.

Quote

If you guys don't want that, then why did you cry your little hearts out to be taken into this QP mode?

We didn't. In fact, we (as in: pretty much most of the even semi-competitive players still active in this forum) were strongly opposed to the change being implemented without changes to the matchmaking to prevent this exact scenario from occuring.

Quote

Again if group mode is soooooo great and there are soooooooo many competetive guys, why is the original group mode quite dead?

Given that nobody but PGI had access to GQ statistics and what exact group compositions and sizes were queued at any given time, we don't know for sure if the population was the actual problem or if the issue was some weird assumption about matchmaking (eg "the largest queued group must be filled first")

Brauer, on 02 May 2020 - 10:41 AM, said:

Winning is fun.
Improving as a player is fun.
Competing is fun.

It is. But let's not deny it, there are people who believe *breath* THEY ARE IN THE RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY INFALLIBLE AND THE WORLD MUST BEND OVER TO CATER TO THEIR WANTS.
You know the type. Easier to blame the team than to acknowledge that the maneuver they tried to pull has been suicidal from the get-go or that their "build" is nonviable for their own design premise.
And with no introspection there's no room for improvement.

VonBruinwald, on 02 May 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

I'm sure there's some good intentions but at the moment they're screaming "Save the Whales" while clubbing seals!

If the problem gets really exacerbated there's a slim chance PGI might do something about it - remember Dragon Bowling?
Also, what else do you expect them to do? Stop playing? Throw matches on purpose?

Edited by Horseman, 02 May 2020 - 12:23 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Played with a friend today in a 2 man group for half a day. We both came back from a timeout because of the testing of small groups and we had a lot of fun and good matches as well as bad ones. We stomped and where stomped but at the end of the day we both said that this was overall a better experiance then what we had before we stopped playing and we will play again.

We also came to the conclusion that even a bad game wasn't that much of a problem because we would find a new one in a very short time and just from the feeling of the end of the day it was a good day.

Please keep the small man teams.

Edited by Nesutizale, 02 May 2020 - 12:19 PM.

[Grenderos]

Finally I have been able to play with a friend in same game! I think there has been almost two years since last time. Matchmaking simply has not been working for us.

Thank you very much.

Edited by Grenderos, 02 May 2020 - 12:34 PM.

[Anomalocaris]

VonBruinwald, on 02 May 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with calling out their EPeens. I know you are say there are stomping good players who are streaming on our side but it's not like anyone is forcing them to roll meta builds. I've yet to see drop all-flaming K-9's, no, instead of trying to make the matches interesting/entertaining they're out stomping to inflate their aforementioneds.

I'm not even seeing them banter in chat, ctrl+v a link is as good as they get.

I'm sure there's some good intentions but at the moment they're screaming "Save the Whales" while clubbing seals!

I can't think of any _good_ (high skill, whatever) streamer that I would be less likely to pull the ego argument with than B33F. The guy is good but he screws around a lot (ever see his stealth locust on HPG manifold shenanigans?) and is a blast on stream. Our French-Canadian clown prince if you will.

And I haven't seen these guys play much top of game meta. They've played just about every mech imaginable, and done some crazy mixes (3 PIR and an ANH to make weight limits for example). And frankly, it doesn't matter what they play. Absent a good group on the other side, they're going to win because of the skill imbalance.

I take issue with trying to characterize top level players as needy, ego driven incels who stomp pugs because they fail at real life (which is pretty much what the first poster said and/or implied). Even if there were some players like that, lumping them all together in such a categorization just because they play the game well is ignorant and stupid.

[Wutudunu]

just as expectet
the group players like it, because they can get a match.
the solo players are leaving, because pretty much everything went down the drain (balance, match quality, fun)
if this continues the quickplay que will be exactly like the group que used to be: unplayable.

why not make it opt-in?
because no solo player will do that!

just when i thought this game can´t possibly die any faster.

[Nesutizale]

My experiance was pretty different. Very little nascar going on. More standup fights, people more coordinated, more often someone takeing command and leading. Hell we had even more matches where people stopped and waited for assaults instead of running away from them.

Overall this was how matches should be and it was like that for solo and group drops for me.

[Horseman]

Wutudunu, on 02 May 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

why not make it opt-in?
because no solo player will do that!

I would and I'd be happy to. Probably a number of other players from the higher side of the performance spectrum also would, hoping for a more competitive environment than the regular solo queue.

[Slothasaurus]

Wutudunu, on 02 May 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

just as expectet
the group players like it, because they can get a match.
the solo players are leaving, because pretty much everything went down the drain (balance, match quality, fun)
if this continues the quickplay que will be exactly like the group que used to be: unplayable.

why not make it opt-in?
because no solo player will do that!

This, exactly.

[Nearly Dead]

I guess we will see how they like it in a year when the wait time is back up and they can't play and there is no one left to throw under the bus.

This week I dumped $50 into my Steam wallet. PGI will not be seeing any of that now.

I wanted proper drop decks, another light and medium maybe some fun stuff like another color besides slate gray.

Stupid, stupid, stupid decision. Or clever and despicable.

[Zoolder]

Whenever we have more than 4 people in a group it says "Failed to find a match"

[Znoop]

Zoolder, on 02 May 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

Whenever we have more than 4 people in a group it says "Failed to find a match"

- Max group size will be restricted to 4 players. All group sizes of 2,3 and 4 are valid group sizes.

Read what OP wrote please.

Edited by Znoop, 02 May 2020 - 03:06 PM.

[X Player]

So I played a few matches today after taking a year or so off and it felt really good playing solo and in groups of all sizes. Queue times were the best since 2018 and the overall match quality was fine, too.

Edited by X Player, 02 May 2020 - 03:22 PM.