849 replies to this topic

[L1f3H4ck]

Actually going for the PSR, nice! Can't be reset soon enough tbh.

[DadeoStuart]

Approve of reset PSR and zero sum PSR

Not sure if all commentators agree that the PSR should reflect both the win or loss aspect and player contributions.

At times one must play to support the team positively even if one must then sacrifice their mech for the team

[Rioting Baboon]

I, Baboon, of the rioting variety, do hereby cast my lot in with those in favor of a reset.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Just do the reset!

Even though I am not able to convice myself anymore, that this is gonna make much of a difference regarding our actual player size - reset inducing a higher match-quality or not.

Gotta realize that any future for our beloved franchise (at least in terms of an immersive mech-simulation) won't depend on it. At least as long as there ain't no incentive to migrate the current MWO into a more sophisticated (tactical-objective) simulation.

Be that as it may: just do the reset please and let us have as much hours of joy as possible.

[Vesper11]

PRESS THE BUTTON!
It was exp bar and useless anyway. Time to burn it, burn it with nuclear fire!

[Paul Meyers DEST]

RESET AND ZERO SUM! DO IT!

[Sniper09121986]

DadeoStuart, on 26 May 2020 - 01:49 AM, said:

Approve of reset PSR and zero sum PSR

Not sure if all commentators agree that the PSR should reflect both the win or loss aspect and player contributions.

At times one must play to support the team positively even if one must then sacrifice their mech for the team

I remember a discussion of a unit drop-caller on a Raven with K/D of 0.5 or so but W/L of about 20. Clearly an above-the-salt guy with good understanding of the game, but how do you account for him? And why should people get hit in their PSR after making all three kills in a 3-12 loss? There is no easy answer there, and, well, we do have to start at some point. Since most games tend to get decided by kills, I would say we need to track individual performance without much emphasis on W/L and rely on individual motivation to perform in a more efficient manner, but that is just my two work credits.

[Purusee]

Can't see how a PSR reset and rework to Zero-sum would make matches any worse than they currently are
Might as well do it.

Not exactly a fan of keeping soup queue as is though, not without properly balancing the groups it includes into matches...
I'm sick of seeing my team's premade lance NSR into the enemy's just because they think they should take them, when it should be obvious they won't be able to...

[Knight Captain Morgan]

I already uninstalled the game after seeing what your "only 3% more" stomps looks like. I've held off on unfollowing the MWO streamers, for now but if your "only1% more" looks anything like you "only 3% more" did, that'll change rather quickly.

[GROLSCH]

Make PSR zero sum and reset yesterday.

[mrvain]

I would be stoked to be reset. I do well in Tier 4, average in Tier 3 and I am a potato in Tier 2. I stopped having fun on this account and I felt like I was negatively impacting the game for others in my team in Tier 2 so I have created another account. I have been reluctant to buy anything on that account (like I did on this one) because I figured I would eventually creep up again.

[Coffeeghoul]

Yes, please reset the Tier system.
I'm in T1. I don't belong there, I don't want to be there. I just got there by playing. I think I'd be just fine in T3. I want to climb up the ladder by getting better, not by playing more. And I don't want to be insulted by 1% players for not being on their level.
Thanks.

Edited by Coffeeghoul, 26 May 2020 - 03:07 AM.

[Sneakytrig]

Reset sounds good, and very happy to hear the merge is staying. Thanks!

[Spinning Broccoli]

From the perspective of a new player: I am pretty happy with the way the matchmaker works in terms of challenge. Sure, experienced players brutally murder me if I make positioning mistakes or experiment with a troll build or playstyle I am unfamiliar with, but I try learn from those runs and be better in the next game.

The challenge has gotten considerably higher after hitting T3 and T2, which is totally understandable and not an unwelcome change.

In terms of combined queues affecting game quality: While I have only very little experience in the pre-merge system, it seems to me that the presense of a group in the enemy team forces everyone in the friendly team to work together and co-ordinate their actions. My perception is that the amount of team play has gone up after the change, but again, I have only played for a short while, so my observations are not based on long-term experience.

In terms of resetting/changing the PSR system: Due to lack of experience, I do not have an opinion on whether it is a good or a bad thing. The change sounds quite drastic, so there are a few concerns I would like to raise:
* Would the new system encourage the type of play that the community wants to see in quick play (whatever that type is)?
* Might the new system discourage dedicated fans of the game, causing them to quit and shrinking the user base to an extent that we no longer have matches?
* Since the player base is relatively small nowadays, does it really matter if the matchmaker is fully optimised, if it ends up having to pit top players against less experienced ones anyway in order to get a game going?
* Would the new system allow for experimentation with builds and playstyles or will players need to pick a mech that is 100% meta-optimised in every game in order to avoid dropping in rank?
* Might the new system overly punish good players by not getting them into games, and encourage them to intentionally cause their rank to drop, in order to be able to avoid excessive waiting?

All in all, would it make sense to have some kind of an official "YES/yes/don't care/no/HELL NO" referendum on whether to implement the change or not?

Also, what if players had the ability to cap their tier to a lower value manually, which would be available only if their current W/L ratio was 0.8 or less and would automatically disable if it rose above a certain threshold, like 1.1?

Edited by Kurb, 26 May 2020 - 03:13 AM.

[Uakari]

I d also love it from the viewpoint of having a challenge again, to have the task to get up to tier 1 again.

[Horseman]

Bistrorider, on 26 May 2020 - 01:23 AM, said:

Jeez, this thread is like quantum physics for me… Dang, I wanna play, whatever PSR, tier sh..t gonna be, but I'm grounded. Need to service my laptop. OMG.

One think from me: In any multi game new players play with experienced players, even at the beginning. Whatever it gonna be new players can't be left playing only with themselves. Playing with vets is the way to learn something. Maybe some random formula which sometimes will drop few vets to newbie matches? I like the idea to mix between closest tiers, but then it can be problem with finding a match. Some prizes for top players at the end of the month is good idea imo. Also there should be some topic at the forum, like list, with best 10 or best 100 from any month of playing quick play.

The big point of the PSR changes and reset is to make sure everyone's PSR more closely reflects their performance. That should at least in theory give the matchmaker a meaningful performance metric. It has never been about isolating mewbies from veteran casuals or competitive badasses - rather, the point is to have a metric by which each team is roughly equal in capability (leading to improved match quality).

[Tarl Cabot]

.

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

There's still an elephant in the room. PSR calculations. Yes it's true that it biases upward movement. That bias comes from the formula currently saying that if you LOSE, you can still move up if you perform well. THIS is the aspect that breaks zero sum distribution

I believe some of the early posters are missing out on something here, but EXCUSE ME? The PSR calculation allows one to move up on a LOST? Yes, but only if your MS exceeds 400 MS+ (this could be any number) The issue is that when your team wins, you move up with a 100 MS+. The thresholds increase, more so on the WINNING side than on LOSING side. Your proposal to ONLY alter the thresholds on ON THE WRONG SIDE.

Reset Tiers? I would have proposed a reseeding instead of a complete reset.

Grouped players - change from tonnage to allowing only 1/weight class. Removes the ability for a group to bring 2 assaults in any configuration.

Sean Lang, on 25 May 2020 - 04:56 PM, said:

Do the Zero Sum PSR + reset, do it already!

Sean, Paul has not stated HOW he will do the Zero Sum PSR. Reading his post, his zero sum PSR will only involve removing the 400 MS upward movement on a loss.... is that really zero sum PSR when the issue is the low thresholds for when the team wins?

• Remember, many players have been identified who have moved up to Tiers 1 and 2 with an average 171 MS....and only a 0.82 Win/loss ratio while playing TONS of games...IS Paul actually saying said player is hitting 400+ MS on a LOSS, thus sucking eggs on wins while moving up? Think about that......

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 26 May 2020 - 03:32 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

HMMMM--- I totaly agree with the Tier ranks reset, and any change in the PSR to put it beyond an experience bar is welcome.

Quality matches and fun must be more important than Egos...

But as above said, a reset in the tiers AND mantaining the actual combined queue will put in a serious disadvantage the solo players.

Being a solo player was very infuriating this last weeks.

Some matches you was facing not only coordinated teams, but TROLLING coordinated teams, equiped with nasty combinations of setups (Flamers, narcers, LBX boats+ Piranhas...)
And the coordinated lances inside your team acting like morons- (Using the solo players as meatshields, trying foolish strategies withour warning the rest of the team, or letting you die at their side... To go to help a mate at the other side on the map)

If you want to make yourself an idea, take a look in the most popular twitch streamers...

To play this game alone has been even more hard than playing faction as a PUG used to be...


Congratulations to the people who wanted to play with their buddies at all costs, and to all the usual syncro players, now having no more issues to stomp pugs...

But this game need not only a changer on PSR. Needs another random generator to not group EXACTLY the same players again and again, creating Pre-lose teams more than 20 times in a row

[BoldBattleBrother]

I strongly support resetting. I came back to the game in April and brought a half-dozen friends. Personally I find it fun whether I solo, sync-drop, or play in a group, but the several of my friends basically don't play unless we can group up.

I see that there might be a concern with taking away players' hard-earned tier progress. I don't know if it is possible, but one idea to mitigate that perception is to cast it as converting the current tier into some other reward (e.g. give graduated awards of MC or something else based on the player's current tier).

There might also be a concern with unbalanced matches in the time shortly after the reset period. One idea there is to give premium time, which encourages players to power through this period in a short time. (My thinking is that the quicker most players achieve a seeding, the less severe and disruptive this effect will be overall.)

(I apologize if I'm echoing someone in the previous 12 pages.)

[KH Slaine]

Aye, reset please. Somehow make PSR reliant on individual performance more so than match outcome. Perhaps 75-25 split, individual performance to team cohesion/outcome. (66-34%??)
Queue merge was a net gain in my opinion. Glad it remains.
Things are looking up.