849 replies to this topic

[GrimmigerPetz]

RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!

Wait, wrong franchise.


KAAAAAAHHHHHNNNNNN!!!

Damit, wrong again.


Just reset the PSR. And while doing so, please also reset all Leaderboards. Quickplay and Factionplay. Or at least make them work again so some can see if there is any progress.

Edited by GrimmigerPetz, 26 May 2020 - 07:42 AM.

[Panzer Puppy]

Sounds like a great idea.

[KS Highlander]

I am a casual player. I am not competitive, I don't have to play the current meta. I play to enjoy. I play builds I want to. If you do a reset, the good players will rise through the tiers quickly. The casual players will 'float' to where they belong. I have been at tier 2 for quite awhile. I have no issue with a reset as player ranking doesn't matter to me.

[Ebelon]

denAirwalkerrr, on 26 May 2020 - 07:21 AM, said:

I like how you're trying to justify your tier 2 not by the fact that you have sub 1 WL and KD rates but because PSR is somehow biased to players doing regularly over 800~1000 damage. Teamplay is not a metric you can measure but consistent horrible damage is.

Again the K/D fan of 12 year old minded guy...
K/D ratio means nothing on how you contribute to the team (and therefore contribute to winning a game)
I can stay behind, play passive, soot torsos to get more damage and so on, that means nothing. Not that you are good nor that you are of value in a drop.

The issue behind that is, that constantly doing high damage shows only, that you abuse the damage count (shot LT and RT instead of getting the instant kill) - double positive feedback because you get automatically KMDD.

And you guys pointing to K/D ratios are the reason, why we have all these issues.
The game does not reward team players - it rewards selfish players, who abuse the tier and damage calculation and profit from others, who do the real work.

[Augustus Ull]

I have been in so many one side matches the last few weeks it's ridiculous. Wait times are shorter, but now your going to knock us all back to Tier 5......well, I guess you can't spell slaughter without laughter. HA! HA! So much for balance! I though nerfing everything was suppose to be the answer to all the issues. Clan double heat sinks that can't remove 2 points of heat in the prescribed interval.......etc., etc. etc.

Maybe you should migrate MWO to the MW5 environment, and let us bring our stuff......but MW5 needs help to.

[Kin3ticX]

One of the main problems with the current system is an average player can get to tier 1. They don't hover at tier 3, they get tier 1. This means a player can reach top tier and half of everyone in the game is better than them.

There is a big difference between the 90th, 95th, and 99th percentile players and the MM doesn't know the difference between say a 60th and a 90th.

Maybe resetting PSR wont make much difference because nobody wants long wait times.....but....at least tier 1 and 2 will acktualllllyyyyy mean something.

[Bennesto]

Cons. KDR: If you live longer than the enemy while doing more damage to the enemy as he does to you, you contribute towards a possible win for your team. [Redacted]

[Ebelon]

denAirwalkerrr, on 26 May 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:

Bruh do you understand that about 90% of games are won with whole enemy team dead so damage is the most important thing you do in the game no matter what because it's how you win. And the best teamplay is killing half of enemy team on your own.

Seems you do not understand the damage calculation.

Doing most damage is no indication at all.
Because to do most damage you shot the torso, you shot a leg, you shot the arm of the other torso, you shot the other torso to score the kill. so not killing the opponent but getting the most damage out of him is the thing to do.

The other way around you may score more kills with less damage - and that should be rewarded instead of just doing horrible damage.

[Krombopulos K Michael]

Resetting PSR is a great idea. The 20 games to reset your PSR will make match maker the Wild West for the forseeable future. PLEASE create an event that incentivizes people to play HARD for their first 20+ games. IF you are going to do a reset, you need the existing player base to be highly active to minimize the pain of essentially no match maker for multiple weeks.

I would recommend an event that requires 20+ games played for a generous award. Think summer grab bag event PLUS a leaderboard event.

It is inevitable that trolls will try to manipulate PSR. For the sake of your dwindling community please execute this correctly, with tact and forethought.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Seems you do not understand the damage calculation.

Doing most damage is no indication at all.
Because to do most damage you shot the torso, you shot a leg, you shot the arm of the other torso, you shot the other torso to score the kill. so not killing the opponent but getting the most damage out of him is the thing to do.

The other way around you may score more kills with less damage - and that should be rewarded instead of just doing horrible damage.

I agree with you but it doesn't change the fact that it's not the reason you can't get to T1 even with current positive bias system.

[Spare Knight]

I would suggest after the reset to go to a 40+ or 50+ game bonus to help get the higher tier players moving in the right direction. This would lessen the pain that some are expecting. After that, some might drop back down a bit, but it will all settle out in the next month or two.

[Dogmeat1]

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

Again the K/D fan of 12 year old minded guy...
K/D ratio means nothing on how you contribute to the team (and therefore contribute to winning a game)
I can stay behind, play passive, soot torsos to get more damage and so on, that means nothing. Not that you are good nor that you are of value in a drop.

The issue behind that is, that constantly doing high damage shows only, that you abuse the damage count (shot LT and RT instead of getting the instant kill) - double positive feedback because you get automatically KMDD.

And you guys pointing to K/D ratios are the reason, why we have all these issues.
The game does not reward team players - it rewards selfish players, who abuse the tier and damage calculation and profit from others, who do the real work.

We have enough public data available for us to see that players who have high win ratios also have high average matchscores and K/Ds (as well as a high kills per game average). Being a good team player is being someone who is consistently contributing in a way that increases their teams chances of winning. A high k/d or matchscore alone does not always mean a high WLR. In addition WLR can be boosted by playing mostly in group queue. However every single player with a high WLR, who is dropping solo, also has good stats in the other categories. Therefore this is strong evidence to show that they are good indications of how much someone is contributing to their team.

Edited by Dogmeat1, 26 May 2020 - 08:06 AM.

[Spare Knight]

Another thought would be, when doing the reset, everyone with an Average Match Score <300 be placed in Tier 4. Everyone with an AMS >300 be placed in Tier 3.


EDIT

I would even say that those above 400 AMS could just be put in Tier 1, since this is where they are going to be anyway.

Edited by Spare Knight, 26 May 2020 - 08:25 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Tahawus, on 25 May 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

Reset the PSR it's garbage anyways with everyone that has played a large number of games in the past 5 years and won a majority of them collected in Tier 1.

Honestly, the Tier should be calculated on a real+time basis. Breakpoints between tiers should be set as quintiles of the PSR of players that have been active in the recent past. Don't be shy about demoting people of their past performance doesn't keep them in a current tier.

Not even a majority wins. My Win/Loss is 7,041/8,044 as of this post, since August 2015, and I've been in Tier 1 for a few months, now. I'm definitely in favor of a Tier reset and net-zero Tier system, because I definitely had my most fun in QP back when I was Tier 3 (though that might also have been before all the friends I made in this game quit playing).

[Star Dust]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

There is a multiplier for the first 20 games all players play that push your PSR changes higher or lower to speed the seeding process of the PSR player distribution. After those 20 matches, regular PSR zero sum values will be used.

We need your feedback on whether this is acceptable or not (losing current Tier standings).

I've played at least a few games that attempt this approach for 5 vs 5. For 12 vs 12, with no initial placement data, 20 games I don't think will be nearly enough to make meaningful pushes one direction or the other before settling with zero sum PSR.

How is the system going to compensate for teams with PSR, just ignore the teams?

[Lion ElJonson]

C'mon PGI, just wipe old Tier data plz! Current state of PSR means nothing except preety numbers for so-called "do all the job" pilots.

[Smotty]

Full reset please. The zero sum has been needed for years.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

What I didn't tell you was that two Fridays ago after reading all the comments and watching some vids the community made, I made this adjustment to see what would happen over a longer period of time:
Basically I decreased the weight class valve to no longer allow it to open up completely. I also reduced the allowable Tier spread and increased how long the MM would wait until it added another Tier to the viable team composition.

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

Just want to touch on this. It's known that MWO has a small playerbase now. Even if we do start to separate players into more finite tiers, the release valves would still have to open up fairly wide to get matches to kick off. Even strict Elo would result in people at both ends of the curve waiting forever for a match to kick off.. and by forever, I'm talking in the 50 minute range.

[Spare Knight]

If this works as well as I think it could, I have some friends whom I might be able to convince to give this game a try.

[RJF Volkodav]

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

Redacted]

[Redacted]

As it been told hundreds of time - everything matters. Your WLR/KDR/AMS. If all of them are good you are doing good. If all of them are bad you are bad. Having ratios less than 1 and poor average damage means you are carrying your team down whatever you think of yourself. Other side - if you have a high KDR you will have most likely high damage output as to kill one mech you need an average of 180DMG with a good aim and even more if you cannot hit red rectangle. There are ways to abuse one stat, but no ways to abuse them all together.

Edited by GM Patience, 26 May 2020 - 09:00 AM.