849 replies to this topic

[Rkshz]

Lockheed_, on 26 May 2020 - 09:37 AM, said:

I doubt that players who have spend thousands of hours and possibly thousands of dollars on the game would be excited to log in and find themselves "demoted" to Tier4.

really? tell me more about it



PSR RESET - URGENTLY AND IMMEDIATELY

Edited by Rkshz, 26 May 2020 - 09:53 AM.

[kawaiiChiimera]

So will Tier 4 be the "average" skill level, or T3? How much of the player base proportionally will be in each tier? It feels like half the players are in T1 at the moment, and while it's great to get screenshots of me with 4 solo kills and 700-1200 damage each match to show off... well, I'd rather be playing against better players and get punished for doing stupid **** if I want to stay in tier 1. I'm at 1k hours and wholly support the change.

Edited by kawaiiChiimera, 26 May 2020 - 09:52 AM.

[JoeCold]

Kat Baran, on 26 May 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:

You got something wrong - it´s a system that average players will never reach T1 again.
New way of thinking

Your point made me think of something: PSR should probably not include a player's entire history, but rather just the last X matches (x=500 or 1000 or some other large but finite number). People do improve, sometimes suddenly and/or not until after a long time. A "former self" shouldn't be a long, long term anchor. It's more rare, but people sometimes drop in skill as well - particularly one-trick ponies after their trick is nerf'd.

[denofsteves]

I think resetting PSR and going zero sum sound really good, along with PSR calculation changes. I'd rather see a rank number or a percent placement in place of the current 5 tier system. The tiers mask your personal performance too much. If we must stick with a tier system, leave 5 and 1 to the extreme outliers and break up 2, 3, and 4 with a simple standard deviation.

Those of you that have dropped with me or against me know that I'm not an elite player. The best I've ever done on the jarls list is low 70s, right now I'm sitting in the 50s. That would put me in the middle of tier 3 on an average day, and likely not above high tier 2 on my best day. I dropped with teammates that consistently performed in the 90s, so my placement was much higher than it should have been.

[Son of the Flood]

I concur with most of the feedback on the thread about resetting the tiers. Over time, folks will naturally sort back into their appropriate tiers.

Another vote here for PSR reset to zero sum.

[Gakuseinozen]

Reset it; as long as the new system is a true reflection of player skill, and not just an experience bar.

[Namicus]

I actually was hoping for a tier reset for a long time and didn't think that would ever be a possibility. This is great news and would likely bring both my buddy and myself back to the game.

[OettingerRakete]

Lockheed_, on 26 May 2020 - 09:37 AM, said:

Besides my personal feelings, I think the community is too small to handle a SR reset and change. I doubt that players who have spend thousands of hours and possibly thousands of dollars on the game would be excited to log in and find themselves "demoted" to Tier4.

Realy?

I spend thousand of hours in the game and couldn't care less. I rather start over then seeing that unbalanced QP any more.

So lets try it, since it can't get any worse !!!!!!

[Xaat Xuun]

oh yes yes, reset, even though I have too many alts, guess now I'll end up having my pick of what tier level to play.
I think now, I'll try and fix what's wrong on this account, so the "W" key will work without having to use the Repair tool every time before launch

[Daidachi]

Do it. Reset it.

Tiers shouldn't be Progress Warrior Online. Hell, hide them from everyone if people are really that upset about losing something that is purely a match making algorithm rather than an 'achievement'.

I cannot reinforce this enough people - a Tier isn't a participation trophy. Stop thinking of it as one.

[Flyby215]

Not a fan of the mixed queue; though I'm willing to see if a tier reset and zero-sum calculation helps with matchmaking. About half of all my matches are stomps (12-4/4-12 or worse). As I said before, I'm sure PGI's overall data states otherwise; but my personal experience is written down on paper and about 50% are stomps.

I've seen a few posts about the big money-spenders; if this were to be PGI's priority, I would suspect they would be more interested in recent money spenders as opposed to a former spender like myself (gold mech owner). Just my speculation though.

[DelRico]

Reset it.

I love what you did with the test, I'm now able to play again with a friend and matches dont feel like stomp fest like some had predicted.

[Nesutizale]

I welcome a reset and a rework of the PSR system. Also I would like to know more about how the new system will work.

As for those who are worried about "working their way back up"...seriously that is your problem? Be happy if in the end it will have more balanced games and I guess that you guys will be back to T1 in no time.

[Scout Derek]

Belacose, on 25 May 2020 - 10:26 PM, said:

So how long do y'all guess it would take an elite player like Scout Derek to get back to Tier 1? A month? A week?

Last three games in a row I played on this account he was on the enemy team which stomped my team horribly each time. 2 of the 3 were 12 - 0 stomps with his lance pretty much getting the vast majority of kills. He killed me twice with his Orion.

Needless to say I quit playing for the rest of the day as that was worse than bad.

Edit to include that those three games were all Quick Drops. I was simply pugging it. None of the people in his lance had the same unit tag but I assumed they were grouped up regardless.

Depends. If there was no "boswer", or "bear" in the players name with me, I'm pretty sure I was solo that drop.

[Horseman]

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 07:46 AM, said:

Again the K/D fan of 12 year old minded guy...
K/D ratio means nothing on how you contribute to the team (and therefore contribute to winning a game)
I can stay behind, play passive, soot torsos to get more damage and so on, that means nothing. Not that you are good nor that you are of value in a drop.
The issue behind that is, that constantly doing high damage shows only, that you abuse the damage count (shot LT and RT instead of getting the instant kill) - double positive feedback because you get automatically KMDD.
And you guys pointing to K/D ratios are the reason, why we have all these issues.
The game does not reward team players - it rewards selfish players, who abuse the tier and damage calculation and profit from others, who do the real work.

You're presenting nothing but faulty assumptions as to how you believe everyone above you in the rankings behaves.
Frankly, those assumptions are nothing but a load of toxic nonsense.

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Doing most damage is no indication at all.

No, but more often than not it is dealing damage that wins the match.

Quote

Because to do most damage you shot the torso, you shot a leg, you shot the arm of the other torso, you shot the other torso to score the kill. so not killing the opponent but getting the most damage out of him is the thing to do.

You assume there's deliberate damage farming - there isn't. Waiting for a perfect shot givens your opponent all the more time to kill you, so you shoot what you can, when you can, because every opportunity for a shot that you aren't taking is an opportunity for your enemy to do worse to you. Farming damage is for shmucks - you will survive longer, win more games and deal more damage over all by going for the kill whenever you can.

Quote

The other way around you may score more kills with less damage - and that should be rewarded instead of just doing horrible damage.

Sure. The reality of it, however, is that the guys who deal the most damage aren't the back-hiding cowards or KDR farmers.

[GARION26]

Tier 5 0.36 KD player who picked up MWO during coronavirus quarantine after over a year of seeing Baradul's videos randomly showing up in my youtube suggested videos and thinking each time I watched it - this game looks great. Got my son into it, then started playing battletech computer game and table top with him.

I'm terrible and getting only slightly better with time but I'm all for a Tier reset.

My suggestion is don't call them Tiers.

Start with new terminology maybe something like (just some sample names you could use anything that makes sense in universe)

Ace
Elite
Veteran
Experienced
Blooded


and keep Cadet terminology and use it as a sixth tier.

Then folks who 'lose' tier 1 status won't have to worry about why they can't be tier 1. It's a totally fresh system which I think helps psychologically.


I think a PSR reset is needed as well - I don't think a simple zero sum W/L fully captures what is needed. Alternatively just keep the existing PSR as a historical variable in the initial reset and then allow a better desiged new PSR system to gradually resort someone. If they are tier 1 but have 30 matches where they are in the bottom 3 of their team the system should drop them down.

Match score isn't perfect but it does capture most of the key variables - you could argue that changing weighting of them would help match score accuracy.

[Nearly Dead]

I certainly hope that they don't make the present tier system "neutral" by tweaking the numbers, turn it lose and never reset it until it becomes unbearable. Again.

Make it the average of the last 100 games. Tier one players will be Tier one again in a couple of weeks and the rest of us can settle in to wherever we fall. Plus if someone stops playing well for some reason, health, deciding that lore requires playing a Mad Cat with the exact mix of weapons as the famous box cover, because they stop trying as hard, they will move to where they are playing with people doing about the same. Same way if someone starts with a unit, improves their mechs, learns from their team mates. They play a couple of hundred games and they are classed with their teammates and peers.

We need to focus on improving things, not just making it not suck for us personally. I see cadets practically every other match, so people are starting the game, lets create some retention. Better game, more players, faster drops, tighter gates on tonnage and PSR, better game. . .

[Horseman]

Centurio GER, on 26 May 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

It will be a pain in the back for those who are tier 1 to reach their old tier. To give you an estimate: with my alternate account I needed 130 or so matches to go from tier 5 to 3, another 900 matches to go from tier 3 to 2, further 2000 matches to reach tier 1 and finally 1000 matches to fill the tier 1 bar. With such a grind in front of us I can not see how anyone can be enthusiastic about that.

1. The point is to ensure PSR more closely reflects each player's performance, allowing for better matchmaking
2. The other point is that tier rating should reflect how good a player you are, not be something an average scrub can grind (and then end up in horribly unbalanced matches for his trouble)

Rkshz, on 26 May 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

really? tell me more about it



PSR RESET - URGENTLY AND IMMEDIATELY

Amen.

kawaiiChiimera, on 26 May 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

It feels like half the players are in T1 at the moment,

Probably an underestimation. We've seen players as low as 38% on Jarl's who are in T1 regardless.

[Gunboat2305]

Paul Inouye, on 25 May 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

Just want to touch on this. It's known that MWO has a small playerbase now. Even if we do start to separate players into more finite tiers, the release valves would still have to open up fairly wide to get matches to kick off. Even strict Elo would result in people at both ends of the curve waiting forever for a match to kick off.. and by forever, I'm talking in the 50 minute range.

Well this change may bring players back as I quite when you guys decided to make anyone grouped up only play in the group MM. That was not fun when you had 2 casuals players having to go against a full team in group MM and I said back then that I would not play this game and would not recommend the game to any new friends as it was Unfair to force me and someone brand new that just wanted to have a bit of fun and play together go up against try hard group teams.

But with this change I'm excited to try the game again and may even try to get some friends into it.

[MODOK69]

I'm open to a new PSR. Will be interesting to see what the new metrics are going to be. The one issue not addressed in this update is the the group que unbalance issue maybe because it cannot be solved. But it will unbalance the new PSR most likely, as players combine in "meta" teams on a race to grab tier 1 and carry each other. Like most players that have commented I have seen first hand these unbalanced matches! As time goes on I think it will mostly balance itself out to a manageable degree, hopefully, but lopsided game play is more common now!!! What is far more important to me is what will PGI do next to keep this a viable game and attempt to expand the players base!!