849 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

FW bases its elo on W/L and KMDD or something? PGI already have a system in place but they refuse to use it for some odd reason.

[Javajoe42]

Andrew:

Agreed. I have another very interesting reset idea. If PGI really really is interested in resetting things. Lets have PGI clear all our mechs that we have bought over the years. Get rid of everyone of them. Get rid of the saved builds down to as if we were starting from DAY 1. Of course that would mean a massive refund in Cbills like they did in the skill reset but then were looking at getting rid of all brass rings and really even out the playing field. I am sure those players who have 300-400 mechs can remember every build on all those mechs. Wonder how all these VOTE reset would feel about that. T

Who would vote for a FULL REDO? Scratch all mechs bought,. Wipe out all created UNITS, Unit Tags, etc as if it was Day 1. Make unit leaders spend time rerecruiting all the players. Have them all reapply. Build up the coffers so they can add people. I am sure there are 20 things I am not mentioning but I think you get the idea. If all these people are hell bent on reset of Tier, then lets just start ALL over again. Are you mech dads out there ready to spend hours recruiting, building your Units all back up from day 1? I would LOVE to see that. I am sure this all coming across as facetious, but hey PGI, lets start the WHOLE thing over again.

[GaelicWolf]

Javajoe42, on 27 May 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

Agreed. I have another very interesting reset idea. If PGI really really is interested in resetting things. Lets have PGI clear all our mechs that we have bought over the years. Get rid of everyone of them. Get rid of the saved builds down to as if we were starting from DAY 1. Of course that would mean a massive refund in Cbills like they did in the skill reset but then were looking at getting rid of all brass rings and really even out the playing field. I am sure those players who have 300-400 mechs can remember every build on all those mechs. Wonder how all these VOTE reset would feel about that. T

Who would vote for a FULL REDO? Scratch all mechs bought,. Wipe out all created UNITS, Unit Tags, etc as if it was Day 1. Make unit leaders spend time rerecruiting all the players. Have them all reapply. Build up the coffers so they can add people. I am sure there are 20 things I am not mentioning but I think you get the idea. If all these people are hell bent on reset of Tier, then lets just start ALL over again. Are you mech dads out there ready to spend hours recruiting, building your Units all back up from day 1? I would LOVE to see that. I am sure this all coming across as facetious, but hey PGI, lets start the WHOLE thing over again.

NO

[Andrzej Lechrenski]

Javajoe42, on 27 May 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

Andrew:

Agreed. I have another very interesting reset idea. If PGI really really is interested in resetting things. Lets have PGI clear all our mechs that we have bought over the years. Get rid of everyone of them. Get rid of the saved builds down to as if we were starting from DAY 1. Of course that would mean a massive refund in Cbills like they did in the skill reset but then were looking at getting rid of all brass rings and really even out the playing field. I am sure those players who have 300-400 mechs can remember every build on all those mechs. Wonder how all these VOTE reset would feel about that. T

Who would vote for a FULL REDO? Scratch all mechs bought,. Wipe out all created UNITS, Unit Tags, etc as if it was Day 1. Make unit leaders spend time rerecruiting all the players. Have them all reapply. Build up the coffers so they can add people. I am sure there are 20 things I am not mentioning but I think you get the idea. If all these people are hell bent on reset of Tier, then lets just start ALL over again. Are you mech dads out there ready to spend hours recruiting, building your Units all back up from day 1? I would LOVE to see that. I am sure this all coming across as facetious, but hey PGI, lets start the WHOLE thing over again.

So just to get this straight: you actually *want* to have terrible matches, get stomped, get screamed at by your team, and have matches where, despite trying your hardest, your team throws it all away or the other team out classes you so much that you can't even fight back? And you want all of that because some meaningless number was ticking up and you don't want to see it go back down again? What in the world is the fun in that, and how can you possibly compare resetting the way matches are paired with losing all of your mechs?

[Javajoe42]

No. I know I left out some context in that last post. What I was meaning was keep the upgraded balancing that PGI is stating they have come up with but reset everything else. That way you have the "balance that everyone wants that they wanted from day 1 but have to start everything else all over again.

I would even go as far as coming up with a scaling system to earn mechs. I know this idea will sound like I am in a looney bin but lets say you win 20 matches with a minimum match score of say 300. Then you get to earn the right to buy another mech. So we all start with the same mech and have to earn to get another mech. I am sure this goes back to some kind of stomping but might make it more interesting of a slog for this game. For example we all start in a Trebuchet(s). Once you meet that goal, you can earn the right to buy the next available mech, say a hellbringer. May it takes a month of playing all the time to earn one assault but with each heavier mech class the more games and higher the match score you must meet in order to buy another mech. I am sure this idea is nutty but I am throwing it all out there just for the hell of it. Plus you dont get to choose the weapons. Weapons are prebuilt and once you have hit the top of TIER 1 and stay there for say a year before you have the right to added and change weapons on your mechs .

[XXXAngry AngelXXX]

It seems to me the simplest solution would be to uncouple victory or defeat from PSR entirely: in this case, it really doesn't matter whether you win or loose, but how WELL you play the game.

But seriously, how is it even a question on this reset and reworking the formula? The community has been asking for this for YEARS!!!

And on that subject, what say you revisit this Ghost Heat nonsense....


...just sayin.....

[Red Potato Standing By]

Javajoe42, on 27 May 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

No. I know I left out some context in that last post. What I was meaning was keep the upgraded balancing that PGI is stating they have come up with but reset everything else. That way you have the "balance that everyone wants that they wanted from day 1 but have to start everything else all over again.

I would even go as far as coming up with a scaling system to earn mechs. I know this idea will sound like I am in a looney bin but lets say you win 20 matches with a minimum match score of say 300. Then you get to earn the right to buy another mech. So we all start with the same mech and have to earn to get another mech. I am sure this goes back to some kind of stomping but might make it more interesting of a slog for this game. For example we all start in a Trebuchet(s). Once you meet that goal, you can earn the right to buy the next available mech, say a hellbringer. May it takes a month of playing all the time to earn one assault but with each heavier mech class the more games and higher the match score you must meet in order to buy another mech. I am sure this idea is nutty but I am throwing it all out there just for the hell of it. Plus you dont get to choose the weapons. Weapons are prebuilt and once you have hit the top of TIER 1 and stay there for say a year before you have the right to added and change weapons on your mechs .

Not really sure what you are worried about, if you are good enough to average 300 match score over the 20 games that will be weighted heavily then you will be back up into to tier 2. If you are not, well you realistically shouldn’t be in tier 2 anyways.(I am in tier 2 as well but realistically should be maybe just going into tier 3/coming out of tier4). And really taking everyone’s mechs away from them really has nothing to do with resetting the tier system.

[Alan Hicks]

Ok, it's been more than 2 days and I guess there's enough feedback for PGI to make a good decision. Or the thread is going to keep developing like the one that reached reach over 80 pages ? No problem I'll just get my pop-corn.

As it is, the PSR just doesn't work, even after a reset, it will need further tweaking. The MM has always been the main problem that shrunk the game's population.

Finally a reset, it would be a step in the right direction. So please do it, most players approve / want it. And others of course, don't care or know, since they don't even check the forums or announcements.

[CrustyMech]

Reset it. And add a couple of new mechs and 2 or 3 new maps when you are done.

Thanks!

[MrMadguy]

There is nothing wrong in resetting PSR, as it's wrong anyway. Who cares about wrong rating, that means nothing? It would be just great to have real rating, that shows your real skill. At least all that loses would no longer be pointless.

And again. Jarl's isn't accurate rating, because it uses absolute skill measure, not relative. While there is some correlation between skill and AvgMS, at the end 250MS in Tier 5 and 250MS in Tier 1 - are two completely different things. Because it's much easier to earn AvgMS while playing against noobs.

Also real reason, why AvgMS correlates with skill now - because MM doesn't actually work at all. I.e. AvgMS would represent skill in "All vs All" situation. That's, what we actually have now. Once MM will start to work again - AvgMS won't correlate with skill.

Edited by MrMadguy, 27 May 2020 - 10:41 PM.

[Voice of Kerensky]

By the way, I want to recommend immediately developing protection mechanisms against "tricky drops."
I am talking about the following situation:
I am a level player, for example, 3 (new). I create a group, I invite my friends of 1 (new) level to it. Which players will our group fall into battle with? Will the matchmaker pick up a team and opponents for us based on all our levels? Or will we be thrown into the game in my 3rd level (as the level of the group leader)?
And one more moment. Here many offer options for changing rewards / punishments for a match (raise or lower the player's level). Currently, unfortunately, a situation where from 1/4 to 1/2 of your team dies in the first 1.5-2 minutes is not uncommon. In such a situation, it is very difficult for the players remaining on the field to realize their potential. The situation arises that I played the match badly, not because I played poorly, but because most of my team died. At the same time, the one who died first can easily cause more damage than those who died much later. Just before he dies, he manages to take a couple of shots and throw an artillery or air strike at a crowd of enemies.
To whom in this case will its level be raised or lowered? To the one who, as an idiot, died first, but before he droped artillery / air strike into the crowd enemys and causing damage (will he get a level increase?)? Or the one who, using his brain, tried not to die in the first minute of the battle, but did not manage to realize his potential due to the fact that half of the team died uselessly (will he get a lower level?)?

[Laser Kiwi]

So many people unhappy by the idea of grinding tiers?

Why? Tiers are supposed to be a measure of skill not a measure of time. The whole point is to match you up with similar skill levels, not tick a box to say you are equal to bow3er or Kras or flippin whoever, when obviously you aren't.

Look its bad for me, apparently i'm like 90 percentile, which puts me in the top fifth against people who are gonna tear me up, BUT, if you are averaging 200-230 match score, i don't care how many years you played, you just aren't tier one material in any way shape or form. If i scroll down the jarls list and your percentile is say 50%, guess what, you're tier 3 tops, not tier 1. The fact people contest this like they 'EARNED' by paying dues is nonsense. It's like saying you get to be a navy seal by doing drills longer than anyone else without ever passing the basic fitness test.....

[DeadWeight18]

I guess we could skip all that Tier discussion if Tier would not be perceived as an honour but as a handicap. Assuming we implement the new tiering system.

If it would serve to balance = nerf the higher Tier players (like higher levels in a single player game) against the lower Tier players than it could create more fun / challenge for all.

As an example:

Tier 5 = -20% heat, -10% hit location spread
Tier 4 = -10% heat, -5% hit location spread
Tier 3 = neutal
Tier 2 = -10% damage dealt, +10% hit location spread
Tier 1 = -20% damage dealt, +20% hit location hit spread

Fair for all I would say.

[Grumpy Old Man]

As a 100% solo player I hate the combined queue with a passion and have not played in about 2 weeks or so.

But yeah, reset the PSR. I will probably try a few games when the change comes in.

[kawaiiChiimera]

DeadWeight18, on 27 May 2020 - 10:26 PM, said:

I guess we could skip all that Tier discussion if Tier would not be perceived as an honour but as a handicap. Assuming we implement the new tiering system.

If it would serve to balance = nerf the higher Tier players (like higher levels in a single player game) against the lower Tier players than it could create more fun / challenge for all.

As an example:

Tier 5 = -20% heat, -10% hit location spread
Tier 4 = -10% heat, -5% hit location spread
Tier 3 = neutal
Tier 2 = -10% damage dealt, +10% hit location spread
Tier 1 = -20% damage dealt, +20% hit location hit spread

Fair for all I would say.

this is awful in every way and should never be implemented or even considered
wonder how long itll take for PGI to implement it

[D V Devnull]

CrustyMech, on 27 May 2020 - 08:55 PM, said:

And add a couple of new mechs and 2 or 3 new maps when you are done.

I second this.

The "UrbanMech IIC" Mech should have arrived by long past now.

Also, some maps with tall non-centralized features would be a good idea. The "Solaris City" Map was a start in that direction, but now it needs to evolve with having a bunch of tall City-Style Features placed a fair distance apart from each other, and have some of the smaller warehousings placed in-between the taller features.

~D. V. "Soooooooooo many things that MWO is missing still..." Devnull




(p.s.: I'm starting to wonder if I should post a second MS-to-PSR Table with an alternate take on the numbers... I may have been too hard-factored on that "85 line" that I built the first version upon... Page 26, Post #515... If you haven't read it already...)

[LordNothing]

Laser Kiwi, on 27 May 2020 - 10:06 PM, said:

So many people unhappy by the idea of grinding tiers?

Why? Tiers are supposed to be a measure of skill not a measure of time. The whole point is to match you up with similar skill levels, not tick a box to say you are equal to bow3er or Kras or flippin whoever, when obviously you aren't.

Look its bad for me, apparently i'm like 90 percentile, which puts me in the top fifth against people who are gonna tear me up, BUT, if you are averaging 200-230 match score, i don't care how many years you played, you just aren't tier one material in any way shape or form. If i scroll down the jarls list and your percentile is say 50%, guess what, you're tier 3 tops, not tier 1. The fact people contest this like they 'EARNED' by paying dues is nonsense. It's like saying you get to be a navy seal by doing drills longer than anyone else without ever passing the basic fitness test.....

t1 represents far more than the top fifth. seems everyone and their mother is in t1 now (just based on huge number of people with t1 under their name on the forums). though t1 representing a flat 20% might be bad for the matchmaker. according to stat math i barely understand, it should be like about 2.1%.if you made it a flat 20% of the population you are going to have a lot of variation in skill at the high and low end because people who are play at a medium skill level are going to be like 68% of the entire population.

also you are never going to be able to fill a game with true t1s or true t5s. thats unrealistic because you have rare unicorns at either end (especially with low population numbers). but you do need to know if you got a ringer so you can derp up the team some more. people might complain that they have to carry, but isnt that a good thing? iit means you are well above average. d love to carry matches because of the huge payouts that brings.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 May 2020 - 11:51 PM.

[L1f3H4ck]

Javajoe42, on 27 May 2020 - 07:26 PM, said:

Andrew:

Agreed. I have another very interesting reset idea. If PGI really really is interested in resetting things. Lets have PGI clear all our mechs that we have bought over the years. Get rid of everyone of them. Get rid of the saved builds down to as if we were starting from DAY 1. Of course that would mean a massive refund in Cbills like they did in the skill reset but then were looking at getting rid of all brass rings and really even out the playing field. I am sure those players who have 300-400 mechs can remember every build on all those mechs. Wonder how all these VOTE reset would feel about that. T

Who would vote for a FULL REDO? Scratch all mechs bought,. Wipe out all created UNITS, Unit Tags, etc as if it was Day 1. Make unit leaders spend time rerecruiting all the players. Have them all reapply. Build up the coffers so they can add people. I am sure there are 20 things I am not mentioning but I think you get the idea. If all these people are hell bent on reset of Tier, then lets just start ALL over again. Are you mech dads out there ready to spend hours recruiting, building your Units all back up from day 1? I would LOVE to see that. I am sure this all coming across as facetious, but hey PGI, lets start the WHOLE thing over again.

You're clinging to that idea that tiers are some kind of achievement (they're not, that's what "achievements" are) or reward (nope again). It's a matchmaking tool. You tier is supposed to reflect your skill level, and right now it does not do that for a lot of players, which means it can't fulfill its function.

And arguing hard to keep something that is basically a flattering lie about yourself... I don't have any kind words for that, so imma stop there.

[Kat Baran]

Javajoe42, on 27 May 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

I vote NO RESET. I have played 4 years now and I am Tier 2 with how many thousands of hours of play just to freaking be put back all over again....

I am one not looking to spend another 4 years trying to get back to Tier 2.

You get something wrong here - you don´t have to get back to T2 and you will not reach it without improving.
I am at the end of T2 but i don´t belong in this high tier, too.

Who was that with the example of football?
If you spend every day with playing football in your garden you are not qualified to play champions league.

https://leaderboard....%0D%0AKat+Baran

[David Sumner]

D V Devnull, on 27 May 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:

I second this.
...

Also, some maps with tall non-centralized features would be a good idea. The "Solaris City" Map was a start in that direction, ...

The Solaris City map, with no combat, drops my FPS 30% lower than Tourmaline in combat.

Do I wanna play more maps like that?

Hell no.

Dakkalistic, on 27 May 2020 - 11:43 PM, said:

You're clinging to that idea that tiers are some kind of achievement (they're not, that's what "achievements" are) or reward (nope again). It's a matchmaking tool. You tier is supposed to reflect your skill level, and right now it does not do that for a lot of players, which means it can't fulfill its function.

And arguing hard to keep something that is basically a flattering lie about yourself... I don't have any kind words for that, so imma stop there.

Oh look, I'm mid Tier 2.
Well that might explain the last few matches I had
12:1, 12:1, 12:1, 12:3, 12:6, 12:4 (all losses)

I'm not mid tier 2 material.
I don't want to be.
Mid to high Tier 3 is what I figure I'm good for.