849 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

MrMadguy, on 02 June 2020 - 10:27 PM, said:

About Meta 'Mechs. May be some of them are fun. MKII for example. But not all of them. When people pick ER-LL/ER-PPC Mediums, like ugly Shadow Cat, in order to pew-pew and steal kills from safe distance - this just isn't fun.

Dude the SHC is not even close to top-tier meta.

[MrMadguy]

Brauer, on 03 June 2020 - 04:37 AM, said:

Dude the SHC is not even close to top-tier meta.

Maybe. It's just example of 'Mechs, that are picked in order to live and do ER-PPC harassing for as long, as possible. Something like Atlas is complete opposite. Too big, too slow, too low/wide hardpoints, too few hardpoint vs newer IS/Clan 'Mechs, prone to ST-insta-death penalty. Just easy frag. But it's fun.

[Brauer]

MrMadguy, on 03 June 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

Maybe. It's just example of 'Mechs, that are picked in order to live and do ER-PPC harassing for as long, as possible. Something like Atlas is complete opposite. Too big, too slow, too low/wide hardpoints, too few hardpoint vs newer IS/Clan 'Mechs, prone to ST-insta-death penalty. Just easy frag. But it's fun.

It's not though. The SHC is not a particularly strong mech. It's DPS is quite low. Some very strong players can use it well, but if you want to carry matches it is far from a top pick. Instead I'd look to mechs like the Blood Asp, Mad Cat MK II, Vapor Eagle, Night Gyr, Vulcan, Urbanmech K-9, and others that all are quite effective and flexible.

[Horseman]

MrMadguy, on 03 June 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

Something like Atlas is complete opposite. Too big, too slow, too low/wide hardpoints, too few hardpoint vs newer IS/Clan 'Mechs, prone to ST-insta-death penalty. Just easy frag. But it's fun.

Depends on the mode, and of course the engine (ST instadeath is only for XL engines, an STD or LFE Atlas will live longer). In Solaris Division 2, it's 100 tons of f*** you driving in your face. Hardly unbeatable, but still quite brutal.

[MechWarrior414712]

MrMadguy, on 02 June 2020 - 10:27 PM, said:

*snip*

Mate don't make me fucken laugh but dude are you rly cherrypicking some 5 year old screenshot & posting GRIND events as evidence that you're actually not worse than 60% of the playerbase? GRIND EVENTS HELLO

[OneTeamPlayer]

Unrelated note, but as a thought I wonder if self overheating deaths that are not caused by flamer "damage" caused a penalty to XP/Cbills/PSR/Matchscore we'd see a difference in gameplay.

Every game there's at least one person who overheats themselves to death- suicide in most games carries a steep penalty but it this is almost encouraged.

[Brauer]

OneTeamPlayer, on 03 June 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

Unrelated note, but as a thought I wonder if self overheating deaths that are not caused by flamer "damage" caused a penalty to XP/Cbills/PSR/Matchscore we'd see a difference in gameplay.

Every game there's at least one person who overheats themselves to death- suicide in most games carries a steep penalty but it this is almost encouraged.

Getting the most out of your mech in most cases involves keeping your heat at near maximum for as much of the match as possible as this indicates you are maximizing your DPS. So I don't think that would change much. I also don't think it should be implemented as if anything players are currently not aggressive enough, rather than too aggressive.

[Nearly Dead]

Wonder how much longer before the reset. I assume they are gathering data now.

[DAEDALOS513]

Brauer, on 02 June 2020 - 08:17 PM, said:

In old solo queue while group queue was dead the fact that teams were random meant you could assess a player based on all of their stats. Now that groups are involved, in my opinion, you either accept the stats as they stand and merely as a demonstration of how well a player leverages all possible advantages (including grouping up) or the stats are basically garbage because teams are no longer random. Any individual stat is going to be heavily influenced by whether or not a player is in a group.

For example, dropping with other strong players likely lowers average match score while raising WLR, KDR, and survival rate. Dropping solo has a chance of severely depressing WLR and to an extent KDR, average match score, and certainly survival rate, but really the impact of dropping solo is hard to predict because it depends so much on what groups are in the queue when you drop.

TLDR, imo you either take the stats at face value and all are to be considered valid, or they're all garbage.

Yes but dropping in a group against solos is too big a 'leverage' and too big a determinant on W/L. I still think w/l should play only a minor role in psr calc. Besides, groups on a team not only influence their own stats (like you say) but also the teams' with the support they provide.. think 'Star Wars Battlefront' when a Jedi Hero is on the battlefield and the support he or she offers the team..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 June 2020 - 01:38 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

OneTeamPlayer, on 03 June 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

Unrelated note, but as a thought I wonder if self overheating deaths that are not caused by flamer "damage" caused a penalty to XP/Cbills/PSR/Matchscore we'd see a difference in gameplay.

Every game there's at least one person who overheats themselves to death- suicide in most games carries a steep penalty but it this is almost encouraged.

Many heat deaths are from players blasting off one last alpha while in overide knowing full well they would have been killed anyway by the opfor within seconds.. great way to die actually.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 03 June 2020 - 01:45 PM.

[spannerturner]

technopredator, on 03 June 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

10 days from this announcement, they said May was a 30-day trial, and that's gone, no words, when the hell are these people going to take this game like they care about it? Do they even play this game?

They announced last year that MWO has been relegated to maintenance mode. From what others have stated, no they don't play the game much anymore, if at all... So, who knows. I would assume that it will happen on a Tuesday with a Patch...

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 03 June 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

Yes but dropping in a group against solos is too big a 'leverage' and too big a determinant on W/L. I still think w/l should play only a minor role in psr calc. Besides, groups on a team not only influence their own stats (like you say) but also the teams' with the support they provide.. think 'Star Wars Battlefront' when a Jedi Hero is on the battlefield and the support he or she offers the team..

In my experience a solid group mostly depresses the match scores and damage of everyone in the match. TBH running a strat where you take 3-4 players and hold a power position is pretty effective at denying both the remainder of your team and your opponents damage (and often kills). Seeing as that's the most reliable QP strat at the moment I don't see it doing much for the other 8-9 players on a decent group's team.

Back to the topic of should WLR be considered much, I think the only real solution is to either take stats at face value or somehow separate stats while grouped. If I'm consistently dropping with a group and putting up a double digit WLR should the matchmaker or PSR ignore that fact and just look at my AMS? Heck most of my stats outside of AMS will be inflated when dropping with a good group. I don't see PGI taking the time to create a separate set of stats for people in groups, so I don't think there's a compelling reason to ignore people stacking wins as part of groups because that is 100% the current QP meta and if they're doing it better than solos or less effective groups it would be foolish to ignore that impact on matches.

[Brauer]

pseudofiction, on 03 June 2020 - 01:54 PM, said:

You apparently didn’t read my whole post. Changes I suggested were supposed to limit the impact of the more abusive of the groups that tend to mass the lame boats that would be most affected by the changes. So yes, my post was very much on topic. The increased diversity this would imo bring to the battlefield in general is just a welcomed bonus. "People got used to it?" Who are you to judge what people got used to? I'm a member of the community like anybody else and I say this game is a mess when it comes to balance, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing multiple copies of the same mechs every game. The group merge amplified this to the level that simply calls for another round of balance changes. That is my opinion, you may not like it but kindly stop telling me what to do and what not and leave the policing of the forum to someone entitled to do it.

You just sound upset that groups are able to roll the queue. AC2 RFL-IIC-2s are not the best option in groups right now. They're relatively fragile and they have unnecessarily long range for most QP maps. Do they work? Sure. But a competent group can make just about anything work right now.

I agree ATMs could use some tuning, but your complaints about AC2s and MRMs seem pretty misguided to me. MRMs are not a terribly effective weapon due to their spread.

Anyway, it's unlikely that PGI will implement what are in my opinion unnecessary nerfs, but if they do you'll see the same strong groups identify the newest or next best options and roll the queue. Advocating for nerfs isn't going to do anything for you here. If you want to counter ATMs either bring something to close on them fast, or something that is maneuverable and can deliver PPFD. Want to counter AC2s? Bring a poptart or a PPFD build, or even a brawler on some maps. Want to counter MRMs? Bring just about anything, but especially something truly mid-range like dakka that has a decent alpha.

[Voice of Kerensky]

pseudofiction, on 03 June 2020 - 01:54 PM, said:

You apparently didn’t read my whole post. Changes I suggested were supposed to limit the impact of the more abusive of the groups that tend to mass the lame boats that would be most affected by the changes. So yes, my post was very much on topic. The increased diversity this would imo bring to the battlefield in general is just a welcomed bonus. "People got used to it?" Who are you to judge what people got used to? I'm a member of the community like anybody else and I say this game is a mess when it comes to balance, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing multiple copies of the same mechs every game. The group merge amplified this to the level that simply calls for another round of balance changes. That is my opinion, you may not like it but kindly stop telling me what to do and what not and leave the policing of the forum to someone entitled to do it.

I hope that you will understand the inferiority of your reasoning and conclusions regarding the nerfhammer.
You say that the nerf of weapons is needed for hit premade groups. Now follow the line of reasoning:
1) The team consists of 12 players;
2) In one team there can be a maximum of 4 premade player in a group;
3) The group occupies from 16.67% to 33.33% of the team;
4) Solo players respectively occupy from 66.67% to 83.33%.

And now the question is for you: who will suffer the most from the blow of the nerfhammer? By pre-assembled groups or regular solo players?

[D V Devnull]

Nearly Dead, on 03 June 2020 - 01:13 PM, said:

Wonder how much longer before the reset. I assume they are gathering data now.

technopredator, on 03 June 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

10 days from this announcement, they said May was a 30-day trial, and that's gone, no words, when the hell are these people going to take this game like they care about it? Do they even play this game?

spannerturner, on 03 June 2020 - 03:11 PM, said:

They announced last year that MWO has been relegated to maintenance mode. From what others have stated, no they don't play the game much anymore, if at all... So, who knows. I would assume that it will happen on a Tuesday with a Patch...

Heck... Have any of you noticed the Queue Times getting annoyingly long? Have any of you noticed the Matches getting unusually tougher? I think Paul Inouye is still monkeying around with the MatchMaker in the background and watching us all squirm. Where the heck is the details on anything incoming, anyway? Why was there a lack of any News Announcement for the May 2019 Patch? Where is further updates on what's going on? Why is it that the last time I checked, the last time he shows as being Online was some time last month? All we have here is questions without anything resembling any kind of useful answers! Worse, he's left us terrorizing each other, somewhere on the order of hearing the Screaming Surat WarHorn in our ears. Perhaps, our anger should be united, and commonly directed at him for abandoning us again?


EDIT :: Just scratched out a couple of things there, because I discovered he's been on in the last day before I posted this. Since he didn't abandon us completely, egg's on my face for that one. That said, he still needs to check in with a useful posting.


~Mr. D. V. "It would really have helped Paul Inouye to keep in touch with the Community right now!" Devnull




(p.s.: Sorry for the rant... Things like this just get under my skin...)

Edited by D V Devnull, 03 June 2020 - 10:56 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 02 June 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

Actually, a win gives you exactly 14 points matchscore over a loss. The rest of the points is gained via your other actions in a match. Due to the snowball effect, the losing side has less of these, of course.

After coming back from the private lobby a few moments ago, a Win adds 28pts MS. In 2016 it had been calculated being 20pts MS.

But still, imho, groups should be limited to either trio or 2* duo. Or if keeping the lance, then lance/trio then 2 pairs. Remove the 3+2 from the equation. And set group to 1/weight class. This would remove a group from bringing 2 a/h/m/l, both great to less than stellar groups.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 June 2020 - 10:47 PM.

[L1f3H4ck]

Yes Daddy! Monkey my matchmaker harder!

[crazytimes]

Has the new scoring system been applied already?

Just noticed I had neutral PSR on a loss, but I had almost 400MS. Haven't been paying much attention for the last year or so, I still thought that was work an increase on a loss...

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Tarl Cabot, on 03 June 2020 - 10:44 PM, said:

After coming back from the private lobby a few moments ago, a Win adds 28pts MS. In 2016 it had been calculated being 20pts MS.

Exactly. A win awards 28 pts os MS, where a loss will still award 14 pts.

crazytimes, on 03 June 2020 - 11:59 PM, said:

Has the new scoring system been applied already?

Just noticed I had neutral PSR on a loss, but I had almost 400MS. Haven't been paying much attention for the last year or so, I still thought that was work an increase on a loss...

You get PSR neutral if your MS is 251-400 on a loss. MS 401+ will get a small rise in PSR. No Changes so far.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 04 June 2020 - 12:32 AM.

[OneTeamPlayer]

D V Devnull, on 03 June 2020 - 10:39 PM, said:

Heck... Have any of you noticed the Queue Times getting annoyingly long? Have any of you noticed the Matches getting unusually tougher?

No and no. A vast majority of my matches are still kicking off in a short amount of time and a vast majority of my matches are still stomps win or lose.

I recently returned and was enjoying the game before the group change, trying to enjoy during the group addition, but something has changed in the past two weeks that is causing stomp after stomp after stomp and I'm not the only one because when i ask over voice comms in-game most other people open up with agreement that they have been in stomp after stomp for their game session as well.

Winning 12 to 1 isn't more fun than losing 1 to 12, most players don't want feast or famine- we want nail biters where we're watching the last few mech huddle together in a desperate one arm-ed fight to the very end with honest good fights all around because we actually had a good fight.