490 replies to this topic

[ContestantNotAppearingOnStage]

I like the new system but as an aggressive Light player, my rating is sinking like a stone. Guess I'll have to learn caution...

[Big-G]

One thing... playing light mechs and even light mediums will almost always bring down your PSR... even with kills

[ContestantNotAppearingOnStage]

Big-G, on 28 July 2020 - 03:58 AM, said:

One thing... playing light mechs and even light mediums will almost always bring down your PSR... even with kills

Yeap. When you loose in a Light, your PSR goes down. When you win in a Light, your PSR will probably go down.

[Big-G]

ProfitMuhammad, on 28 July 2020 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yeap. When you loose in a Light, your PSR goes down. When you win in a Light, your PSR will probably go down.

So, when you are in a light, you go down...

[_AL_]

Paul Inouye, on 03 June 2020 - 12:09 PM, said:

We will continue to monitor the stomp rate, game win/loss scenarios and tier matching to make sure the new PSR system is working as intended.

How's that. Any news? Improvements? Just out of curiosity.

[Mustang_11b35d]

Match Score: A measure of skill? If "skill" means laying back and sucking down late damage, or lobbing LRMs from a safe distance, then then the current system is right on the money! However, if skill means working the field maneuvering, sharing armor, and sometimes giving yourself up for the team, then it pretty much sucks. I'm content being a level 3 player, if becoming a level 2 player requires me to be more selfish.

Can we weight the team-oriented "positive behaviors" (for lack of a better term) such as capping, scouting, effective UAVs, assisting teammates in trouble, etc. more heavily? That might make the match score better at reflecting more than just damage. Damage is important, but it's not everything. It's supposed to be a team game, last I checked.

[GARION26]

Mustang_11b35d, on 14 August 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

Match Score: A measure of skill? If "skill" means laying back and sucking down late damage, or lobbing LRMs from a safe distance, then then the current system is right on the money! However, if skill means working the field maneuvering, sharing armor, and sometimes giving yourself up for the team, then it pretty much sucks. I'm content being a level 3 player, if becoming a level 2 player requires me to be more selfish.

Can we weight the team-oriented "positive behaviors" (for lack of a better term) such as capping, scouting, effective UAVs, assisting teammates in trouble, etc. more heavily? That might make the match score better at reflecting more than just damage. Damage is important, but it's not everything. It's supposed to be a team game, last I checked.

Look I agree with the idea there are a lot of things that go into 'skill' and that match score may not be perfect.

BUT go to this list: https://leaderboard....g/?o=ams&d=DESC
Sort by match score then look at win loss ratio
I just flipped through (again) and looked at the first six pages of top match scores - no one with a WL at or below 1:1 even ignoring the small sample size players you still see the first page of the sort averaging WL of 2-5:1
KD also likely is a similar story when you look at it compared to match score but I agree its possible that some great players might not get a lot of kills.

Match score certainly may have faults - but it sure does seem to associate closely with player 'skill' which IMO is should correlate with the the team you are on winning more often then it loses.

Sometimes an LRM mech is going to have a great matchscore - but it's also going to have some stinkers where a light mech pack eats it 90 seconds into a match. Consistent high effectiveness play is where you get your high average match score (and consistent PSR elevations if you care about that thing)

Edited by GARION26, 14 August 2020 - 01:35 PM.

[Last Of The Brunnen-G]

This is a great improvement to the old system. It's important that players are able to stagnate at a tier when they are not good enough. But this system is still not perfect.

Pros:
The W/L ratio is a good indicater for player performance. Maybe even better than match score. Why? W/L ratio is a statistic that is independend from play style. It only matters, if the play style is succesfull in the majority of the matches. It doesn't matter if bad players get carried or good players carry their team when the match very even. After a few hundreds of matches there is no way that the bad player has a better W/L ratio than the good player.

Cons:
The new system is heavily dependend on the matchscore. The matchscore is not a good indicator of the players performance. In fact it is very difficult to measure the individual contribution to the game. Matchscore is mostly dependend on damage output, wich favours heavier mechs. Lights that destract the enemies and backstab them with high precision are not represented equal to their battlefield value.

Solution:
To let the matchscore represent the players performance better it should be dependend on tonnage and heavier influenced from supporting behavier.
1. Damage = (20 x dmg)/(20 + tonnage)
2. Tactic score = Hit and Run, UAV kill, Flanking, Kill, KMDD, Solokill etc (summed up)
3. Matchscore = (multiplicator x Damage score + multiplicator x tactic score)

The optimal weight between the scores can balanced through different values and multiplicators. UAV kill could be 20 points, Hit and Run 10 points, etc..

[Blackjack Jonesy]

Hate to beat a dead horse, but, There should be match score whether you loose or win that you can still advance in PSR. I have seen many other mech pilots to include myself get above 50o, 600, and sometimes a 1000 point match and it seems like we receive no advancement for the outstanding achievement. It really sucks to be on loosing teams and never move forward. There should be a high achievement match score independent that can award at least 1 or 2 psr points.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but, there should be match score, whether you loose or win, that you can still advance in PSR. I have seen many other mech pilots, to include myself, get above 500, 600, and sometimes a 1000 point match and it seems like we receive no advancement for the outstanding achievement. It really sucks to be on loosing teams and never move forward. There should be a high achievement match score, independent that can award at least 1 or 2 psr points.

[GARION26]

Blackjack Jonesy, on 29 October 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

Hate to beat a dead horse, but, There should be match score whether you loose or win that you can still advance in PSR. I have seen many other mech pilots to include myself get above 50o, 600, and sometimes a 1000 point match and it seems like we receive no advancement for the outstanding achievement. It really sucks to be on loosing teams and never move forward. There should be a high achievement match score independent that can award at least 1 or 2 psr points.

Roughly speaking if you are amongst the highest match scores on a losing team you will still move up - see the initial announcement for the breakdown. You are compared to the other players on winning and losing sides. If you are scoring 1000 damage in a loss you are probably amongst the highest match scores on both sides. I do move up in losses with some frequency.

Remember part of the gameplan is to prevent people who lose more matches then they win from drifting inexorably upward into tier 1 (where they lose even more matches)
If you lose 80% of your games (say sample size 100 games) while scoring a high match score - you don't want to move up in tier. You want to likely move down to play against players who are more similar to you in skill.

[morosis]

Blackjack Jonesy, on 29 October 2020 - 06:56 AM, said:

Hate to beat a dead horse, but, there should be match score, whether you loose or win, that you can still advance in PSR. I have seen many other mech pilots, to include myself, get above 500, 600, and sometimes a 1000 point match and it seems like we receive no advancement for the outstanding achievement. It really sucks to be on loosing teams and never move forward. There should be a high achievement match score, independent that can award at least 1 or 2 psr points.

actually this is one of the benefits of the new PSR system vs the old one. less reliance on winning to properly reflect your performance for PSR change reasons.

i have tracked stats diligently over time since the merging of solo and group queue, and other than the fact that it cannot properly account for/balance groups, the new PSR system does a pretty good job of getting people into the right tiers.

if you consistently play well on losing teams, your average match score, kdr, survive rate, wlr, etc will be lower than the same type of performance on winning teams, but you should still see fairly consistent up arrows.

[Sawk]

hmm ok i agree with
Blackjack Jonesy]


and you guys commenting, are full of it
Granted you may be in the top ten %, and can not see what is really happening, so i will clear the air out for you.
it seems i am hearing the same story, over and over, of what Blackjack has said, if you were unlucky enough, to get the black 20 games below a 250 match score, your stuck in tier 4, and your bar never moves up ever again.
this is some what easy to explain, alot of folks starting to come back, or even brand new start at tier 3, -above us-- once you drop to tier 4 you will always at some point get the guys that are in tier 5, just i few nights ago, i played a match with 6 guys getting below 100 match score, needless to say its hard to be above a 250 match score, when your 3 tanks missed the barn.
if this repeats ever other day, say every 5th or 6th patch, win or lose, your stuck.
ok i have more since i have playing for so long, i would almost bet the the playing between 6pm and 9pm eastern time, the same time zone i am stuck in, my house burnt down, stuck with 1 puter and have to share now, THIS also covers many solo pilots like myself, that really can hit the barn, have pretty good computers, and at some point would like to not see, an atlas think he can run down a lite, much less win a fight with a lite, get the idea.
this system is broken, all your going to do is chase folks off like me, and blackjack, and many of the folks that keep this game going, so you top 10 percent, can boost and talk down to folks, i am sure you will me also, so challenge me, if i want my high tier 2 back--- i must defeat the likes of you, some me your mechs, and i will show mine

Sawk-- PS i am moving my match score up, so i can show how folks can get stuck, i bet i can average above a 250 match score and stay in tier 4 take a look i am close, and i am very good shot

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Sawk, on 29 October 2020 - 05:08 PM, said:

PS i am moving my match score up, so i can show how folks can get stuck, i bet i can average above a 250 match score and stay in tier 4 take a look i am close, and i am very good shot

Sorry to break this to you, but you can't. You have proven to be a low percentile player over 14k matches so far. So no, you are not a good shot by any means. Just let it go and have fun.

[Horseman]

Sawk, on 29 October 2020 - 05:08 PM, said:

Granted you may be in the top ten %, and can not see what is really happening, so i will clear the air out for you.
it seems i am hearing the same story, over and over, of what Blackjack has said, if you were unlucky enough, to get the black 20 games below a 250 match score, your stuck in tier 4, and your bar never moves up ever again.

Your average MS is 238 for this season. Global average MS is around 220. It is more than likely that you're not moving up simply because you're not usually performing much better than half the players in your match.

Quote

this system is broken, all your going to do is chase folks off like me, and blackjack, and many of the folks that keep this game going, so you top 10 percent, can boost and talk down to folks, i am sure you will me also, so challenge me, if i want my high tier 2 back--- i must defeat the likes of you, some me your mechs, and i will show mine

Let my put it simply: your Tier is not a right, it's not a reward, it may even qualify as a punishment.
The purpose of the tier system is not to "chase folks off", but to pair you with opponents and teammates of a comparable level so that you're not getting stomped too easily too often (now THAT would "chase folks off" in droves, wouldn't you agree?).

[Sawk]

ok first mister aidan crenshaw, your match score is only a little above mine, FOR NOW, i have more WINS, and my kill rate is higher then yours, and your talking down to ME. seems you talk down to everyone, well i feel sorry for you.
ok enough of the that, SIR Horseman i disagree with you, all players like titles, and shining things, and rank, as in TIER level, its a quest, so your so wrong, its seems you have lingering feeling about whats going on, you know its a reward, telling us its is not is chasing us away, i will prove your wrong, and go above that 250 mark, and i bet i'll still be in tier 4.
ok remember that only an average, its the matchs you get at 150 match score that make imposslbe to move up, and one more thing i do play solo, more then likely a will never see you in game, i to low of a level

Sawk

[Horseman]

Sawk, on 30 October 2020 - 04:31 PM, said:

ok enough of the that, SIR Horseman i disagree with you, all players like titles, and shining things, and rank, as in TIER level, its a quest, so your so wrong, its seems you have lingering feeling about whats going on, you know its a reward,

No, you're just projecting your assumptions. Get out of this conspiracy theory nonsense that anyone who doesn't automatically agree with you is trying to sabotage you or steal from you.

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telling us its is not is chasing us away,

The mechanism is simple: consistently perform well and you will rise over time. Consistently perform poorly and you'll fall over time. Consistently perform mediocre and you remain in place.
It's an indicator of performance, not a reward.
The main reward for good performance? Is being the ******* badass who stays calm and carries harder than the rest of his deadbeat team.

Quote

i will prove your wrong, and go above that 250 mark, and i bet i'll still be in tier 4.

You can start by enabling your tier display.

Quote

ok remember that only an average, its the matchs you get at 150 match score that make imposslbe to move up, and one more thing i do play solo, more then likely a will never see you in game, i to low of a level

Good performance isn't about having a scattering of ZOMFG HIGH SCORE matches. It's about understanding the game and your mechs so that your performance is more consistent over time.

Edited by Horseman, 31 October 2020 - 02:19 AM.

[Sawk]

ohh ok thought it was displayed, ok its checked to show tier level now, i'll be bringing in some other mechs, and i do understand game, and i have some ok mechs, and know how build, i am even a better light pilot. then a heavy pilot
I just prefer a heavy, i used to be hunted alot, you know the GUY, no wanted to let live. so i need armor, and speed, but that has not been the case last 3 months, i was just trying to push my kill count up, its easier with lazer vomit, and heavy armor.
really need PGI to turn on the kickers, that would get many pilots unstuck, and break the even tie, i am sure you know what i am talking about.

Sawk

[Horseman]

Sawk, on 31 October 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

and i do understand game, and i have some ok mechs, and know how build, i am even a better light pilot. then a heavy pilot

You'll probably want to narrow down your mech choices to your top 3-5 variants and builds while you're trying to climb. What "did it" for me was a pulseboat Warhammer 9D - fast and mobile enough to keep up, durable enough to survive long enough to deal damage, enough firepower to pop components

Quote

really need PGI to turn on the kickers, that would get many pilots unstuck, and break the even tie, i am sure you know what i am talking about.

The kickers are already on. PGI might change the way they're scored but likely not by much.
Also, adding more kickers to the score formula wouldn't "unstick" anyone since with the current PSR algorithm, the PSR gain is based on how your MS relates to your team and enemy team and not pre-determined MS thresholds the way it used to be.

[crazytimes]

Sawk, on 31 October 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:

really need PGI to turn on the kickers, that would get many pilots unstuck, and break the even tie, i am sure you know what i am talking about

The whole point is to get people to the right place so they're playing with peers. Adjusting PSR scoring to make poor playstyles tier up faster so everyone ends up back at tier 1 again is not helping anyone.

It is still upwards biased, just not as much as before. I'm pinned hard against the top of tier 1 and I am not in the top 25% of players skill wise. If you're in 4 and still dropping, the problem is nothing except you and your mech building and play styles.

The psychological problem is twofold however. Below average ppeople rarely acknowledge they are below average. When confronted with incontrovertible evidence, the cognitive dissonance can be insurmountable. Secondly, people who are openly visible as below average are more likely to just give up- dropping player numbers and shrinking the MM pool even further.

[selfish shellfish]

crazytimes, on 31 October 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

The psychological problem is twofold however. Below average ppeople rarely acknowledge they are below average. When confronted with incontrovertible evidence, the cognitive dissonance can be insurmountable. Secondly, people who are openly visible as below average are more likely to just give up- dropping player numbers and shrinking the MM pool even further.

People in general want a "reward" since that triggers the release of dopamine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine
(It does not matter if the reward is real or a perceived one)

You can try to explain that the current tier bar is not an experience bar or a "reward" but some people will never understand. They have it hardwired that a bar moving forwards is a "reward" and a bar going down is a "punishment". It's also how gambling machines and alcoholism works. Many games have a meaningless experience bar to keep the masses happy. It's the oldest trick in the book.

Another aspect might be the perception that playing with and against people who are more skilled will improve your gameplay and lead to a better playing experience. I think the idea here is that you "learn" from the masters. However the logic is flawed since nobody is actively "teaching" you anything in the game or holding your hand. Sure if your team mates are more skilled you might be carried to victory but you learned nothing in the process.