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Psr Update And Changes - Jun 2020


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#421 FearThePaladin

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

#422 FearThePaladin

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 05:01 AM

One more item of note... since you have now placed groups into solo que.... The PSR does not matter one hoot.... You get a bunch o 228 guys stomping around in solo que and every one on their team is a winner and the other team is stomp stompy.

#423 Horseman

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 05:36 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL


You want to make your input known at https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

#424 MrTBSC

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 06:23 AM

PSR definetively needs to be based on personal performance than win or loss, however too often the teamwork causes way too much impact on ones personal performance, and the archievement on kills and teamkills is the biggest factor .. specifically for players who like to go for a supportrole with lower tonnage mechs ... this needs to be addressed ..

#425 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 07:31 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL


MWO is damage oriented. Even though MWO is supposed to be a team-oriented game, does the general population treat it as such?

Anyhow. damage gives 50% of itself to the MS. Over 50 drop the damage portion accounts for approx 64%, overall. For Wins 60% while for losses account for 68%. Again, personally, the losses had a much narrower range than on the wins, where I could say I was actually carried on one match, with damage accounting for 28% of that MS. To note, solo piloting primarily mediums with a light, a few heavies and assaults in the mix.

But complaint without giving alternatives? What difference would it make if instead of 30% instead of 50% of damage went to MS? In the end MS was simply the number utilized by PGI's PSR preset value to determine the movement amount up/down the Tier's experience bar. Someone with a 401 MS and 700 MS moved the same amount on a win, and the same on a loss, but different amount when compared to a win.

And damage is how a mech is killed, with LRM/etc being less effective individually but the more when are added, the greater the effect in helping to get pass any AMS screens, as well as matching players duck out of site.. If a player is hiding then said player is not pouring out damage.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 June 2020 - 07:44 AM.


#426 Roodkapje

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 10:24 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage.

Funny : I think it doesn't do that enough! :)

Needing about 850 of damage to score 500 Match Score is just weird IMHO.

Quote

Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

My favorite high damage solution will always be DAKKA or Gauss based so I don't really see any issue there ?!

#427 Rick T Dangerous

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:09 PM

Step in the right direction.

#428 Metalgod69

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 10:52 PM

View PostAndrzej Lechrenski, on 07 June 2020 - 12:52 AM, said:


"I play with a joystick because I used to be great at MW4!"


If you look at the aim many noobs have, i think they play with a trackball, using their tongue instead of the hand.

#429 Metalgod69

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 11:00 PM

View PostKroete, on 07 June 2020 - 01:02 AM, said:

Never heared of the gaussian distribution? Posted Image


I heard lotz of talk in the past and i saw so little competence and good solutions in the end....
No i am no statistics freak or math student, i really dont give a fuxx, about such things. For me gauss means pinpoint dmg over 700m. Posted Image

At last it wont matter how you match skillless fools with very good players, the match quality wont be good, as long as the noobs arent willing to improve. (and most of them wont improve without joining a unit with full commitment and motivation...and even if youre a good soloplayer, joining a unit might improve your performance by 20% and more....because of the old evil vodoo unit knowledge that makes you highly superior Posted Image )

Edited by Metalgod69, 16 June 2020 - 11:04 PM.


#430 Horseman

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 04:31 AM

View PostMetalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

If you look at the aim many noobs have, i think they play with a trackball, using their tongue instead of the hand.
Don't you mean a steering wheel? A trackball would be more accurate.

View PostMetalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 11:00 PM, said:

At last it wont matter how you match skillless fools with very good players, the match quality wont be good, as long as the noobs arent willing to improve.

I mean, the least that can be done is ensuring the MM rating is tuned to be accurate... then at least both sides should get roughly equal amount of deadweights and tumbleweeds

#431 Viktor von Stompenstein

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 09:18 AM

It's nice that PGI is taking a look at improving PSRs and matchmaking, although it seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

The problem is that as usual, they are focused on tweaking an existing system (PSR) that does not actually do the needed job. The job is not to more accurately rate players. The job is tomake better matches.

Improving PSR will not add more players. You'll still end up with Tier 4's pulled into higher tier battles. Given the usual matchmaking mechanics, it won't result in much better matchmaking either. Even the stats posted by PGI at the start of the thread (sorry I couldn't read all 22 pages) show that these sort of tweaks might make a small difference in a 30% Stomp Rate. 30% stomps!

By any rational standard that would be considered a ridiculous failure in matchmaking.

To improve matches and not ratings, you need to take into account more than just tonnage and PSR. You need a player effectiveness in this match rating. That would be a number that could be calculated after each match in a mech, then stored in that mech just like the tonnage is stored. You could base it on player overall performance (like PSR), performance in this class of mech, performance in this specific mech, and perhaps a small modifier for 'this mech's rating overall', ie, is this an OP, average, or UP mech.

Then when matchmaking, you'd be balancing with Tonnage X player effectiveness rating (PER) which would take into account how effective the various players are with the actual mechs used in that battle. Then it's less significant if a tier 4 is pulled into a higher tier battle because both sides will be balanced with a mix of good and bad players in their better or worse performing mechs.

The goal wouldn't be to make perfectly matched battles, but simply to prevent one out of every 3 or 4 matches ending in a stomp, while minimizing calculation time to form the battle (because all the calcs were done at the end of the previous match rather than while matchmaking).

#432 Slothasaurus

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 12:25 PM

I am all for any thing that will bring some improvement even a little bit.

It's frustrating and demoralizing playing match after match and each game 4 or even half the team scoring below 100pts. Last match for example I had 283pts, but the next highest score on the team was 167pts. It's hard to do anything when put on team after team like that. I'm not good enough to carry a team on my own, but will do good enough to not hurt a team. If placed on teams like that I have no hope of getting a W. I've probably lost 12 of my last 15 matches. I've scored highs of around 500pts and low of 230pts, but loss after loss.

Who knows maybe I'm the problem on the teams. Hoping/praying the work PGI is doing with the matchmaker will help even things out.

#433 NICOLAS78

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:25 PM

...
never mind there was an update since then
...

Edited by NICOLAS78, 03 July 2020 - 11:12 AM.


#434 Horseman

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:47 PM

View PostNICOLAS78, on 02 July 2020 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am afraid the FIX did NOT address the real problem(s) very well,
since by your own measurements you say that AFTER the FIX,
the stomp rate is STILL WORSE than before the merging...
now 30% of stomp is it just how nature is, or can we do better?
I believe we can likely do better (and without changing much).
Remember that it will take a week or two for the algorithm to settle most players in the correct position.

#435 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 04:13 AM

I for one find this new setup too much of a punishment for the few players that try their best, but just can't carry a weak or poorly willed and managed team...

#436 Horseman

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:53 AM

View PostBig-G, on 05 July 2020 - 04:13 AM, said:

I for one find this new setup too much of a punishment for the few players that try their best, but just can't carry a weak or poorly willed and managed team...

Bull. If you're reasonably capable, your score will reflect it and you will be able to increase - or at least break even - on most losses.

Edited by Horseman, 05 July 2020 - 09:54 AM.


#437 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:17 PM

View PostHorseman, on 05 July 2020 - 09:53 AM, said:

Bull. If you're reasonably capable, your score will reflect it and you will be able to increase - or at least break even - on most losses.

LOL... reasonably capable would also be determined by the quality of the whole team. As you can't face all 12 during a furball alone and succeed. If team mates can't coordinate and keep cover for each other, then you could be the best and still be killed instantly if you were in a bad situation at the time.

If only we could always get mostly these great situations, but alas... reality is a different story.

#438 Guffrus

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:26 PM

Just what this toxic community needs; validation for sociopathic behaviour.

#439 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:56 PM

I'm sorry my opinion is so unsavory to some...

#440 Peace2U

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:57 PM

Holy Cr@p.
There is a lot of passion in this thread.
And amazingly, a lot of thought went into some of the feedback/suggestions.
Inevitably, there is a little bit of salt and individuals who want something changed that would benefit themselves, but in general, this is an interesting and open conversation.

Now I'm going to say something that will probably get me shot.
After reviewing this thread, It seems to me that most of the trouble seems to be revolving around two subjects:
Skilled group drops, and individuals who do not contribute to the team win.

The wildcard players issue, I'm afraid cannot be corrected.
I feel that no matter the penalty or benefit you offer, certain players will simply not care because they want to do their own thing.

The skilled group drops issue could be addressed, perhaps, by allowing skilled group drops to only get matches against other skilled groups??? (I'm ducking my head now - - -)
I realize that the player count has dropped and this may result in some longer wait times for groups, but at least it will reduce the blow outs when a pug team faces off against a skilled, well communicating group, and the groups themselves will have better competition.
And speaking about communication, It is my experience that players who use 3rd party comm's are oblivious to players using in game comm's.
They either don't realize, or don't care about letting the rest of the team know the battle or defensive plans, which in turn can easily be the root cause of a loss.
Is there any way MWO can port 3rd party comm's that are permitted to be used in game so all teammates can benefit from strategies?

OK, folks. My shirt is off and my back is turned. Don't miss with the whips. (hearing Stewie's voice say 'cool wh-h-hip' in my head)
Peace





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