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Psr Update And Changes - Jun 2020


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#421 Slothasaurus

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 12:25 PM

I am all for any thing that will bring some improvement even a little bit.

It's frustrating and demoralizing playing match after match and each game 4 or even half the team scoring below 100pts. Last match for example I had 283pts, but the next highest score on the team was 167pts. It's hard to do anything when put on team after team like that. I'm not good enough to carry a team on my own, but will do good enough to not hurt a team. If placed on teams like that I have no hope of getting a W. I've probably lost 12 of my last 15 matches. I've scored highs of around 500pts and low of 230pts, but loss after loss.

Who knows maybe I'm the problem on the teams. Hoping/praying the work PGI is doing with the matchmaker will help even things out.

#422 NICOLAS78

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:25 PM

...
never mind there was an update since then
...

Edited by NICOLAS78, 03 July 2020 - 11:12 AM.


#423 Horseman

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 09:47 PM

View PostNICOLAS78, on 02 July 2020 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am afraid the FIX did NOT address the real problem(s) very well,
since by your own measurements you say that AFTER the FIX,
the stomp rate is STILL WORSE than before the merging...
now 30% of stomp is it just how nature is, or can we do better?
I believe we can likely do better (and without changing much).
Remember that it will take a week or two for the algorithm to settle most players in the correct position.

#424 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 04:13 AM

I for one find this new setup too much of a punishment for the few players that try their best, but just can't carry a weak or poorly willed and managed team...

#425 Horseman

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 09:53 AM

View PostBig-G, on 05 July 2020 - 04:13 AM, said:

I for one find this new setup too much of a punishment for the few players that try their best, but just can't carry a weak or poorly willed and managed team...

Bull. If you're reasonably capable, your score will reflect it and you will be able to increase - or at least break even - on most losses.

Edited by Horseman, 05 July 2020 - 09:54 AM.


#426 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:17 PM

View PostHorseman, on 05 July 2020 - 09:53 AM, said:

Bull. If you're reasonably capable, your score will reflect it and you will be able to increase - or at least break even - on most losses.

LOL... reasonably capable would also be determined by the quality of the whole team. As you can't face all 12 during a furball alone and succeed. If team mates can't coordinate and keep cover for each other, then you could be the best and still be killed instantly if you were in a bad situation at the time.

If only we could always get mostly these great situations, but alas... reality is a different story.

#427 Guffrus

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:26 PM

Just what this toxic community needs; validation for sociopathic behaviour.

#428 Big-G

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:56 PM

I'm sorry my opinion is so unsavory to some...

#429 Peace2U

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 02:57 PM

Holy Cr@p.
There is a lot of passion in this thread.
And amazingly, a lot of thought went into some of the feedback/suggestions.
Inevitably, there is a little bit of salt and individuals who want something changed that would benefit themselves, but in general, this is an interesting and open conversation.

Now I'm going to say something that will probably get me shot.
After reviewing this thread, It seems to me that most of the trouble seems to be revolving around two subjects:
Skilled group drops, and individuals who do not contribute to the team win.

The wildcard players issue, I'm afraid cannot be corrected.
I feel that no matter the penalty or benefit you offer, certain players will simply not care because they want to do their own thing.

The skilled group drops issue could be addressed, perhaps, by allowing skilled group drops to only get matches against other skilled groups??? (I'm ducking my head now - - -)
I realize that the player count has dropped and this may result in some longer wait times for groups, but at least it will reduce the blow outs when a pug team faces off against a skilled, well communicating group, and the groups themselves will have better competition.
And speaking about communication, It is my experience that players who use 3rd party comm's are oblivious to players using in game comm's.
They either don't realize, or don't care about letting the rest of the team know the battle or defensive plans, which in turn can easily be the root cause of a loss.
Is there any way MWO can port 3rd party comm's that are permitted to be used in game so all teammates can benefit from strategies?

OK, folks. My shirt is off and my back is turned. Don't miss with the whips. (hearing Stewie's voice say 'cool wh-h-hip' in my head)
Peace

#430 Horseman

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:00 AM

View PostBig-G, on 05 July 2020 - 02:17 PM, said:

LOL... reasonably capable would also be determined by the quality of the whole team.
Not really.

Quote

As you can't face all 12 during a furball alone and succeed.
Which you aren't supposed to do in the first place. Putting yourself in a position where you're outgunned by multiple mechs over is a beginner mistake.

Quote

If team mates can't coordinate and keep cover for each other, then you could be the best and still be killed instantly if you were in a bad situation at the time.
A good player will think ahead to avoid getting in that situation in the first place. By the time they go down, most of the time they'll have already made a substantial impact on the match in their team's favor.

#431 Big-G

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Posted 06 July 2020 - 04:11 AM

Agree to disagree mostly...

#432 That Token Canadian Guy

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Posted 16 July 2020 - 07:56 PM

The match score is too easy to get to Tier 1 , should be a wider gap in the score system to include equal. I seen it once. Every loss i went up . Granted I pulled my weight , But 250 + granted me a boost? Maybe 350 + for a match score should be the start. Least going from Tier 2-1. What I am saying is , It is still too easy and the players able to get to tier 1 will start saying there is clearly a skill gap in Tier 1. The reset was cool , but the problem still isn't solved. Example is today , many players do ok and still go up. Many comp players will say the same , way too easy .

Second note , 5 min wait for 90% chance of a Nascar match . We all know what those are .I am Tier 1 . If I am still going to get people under Tier 2 , because of population issues , just fast roll it like before . There is no difference in match play. More matches the better . The wait wouldn't be bad if everyone in that match was my Tier.

#433 Blackjack Jonesy

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:07 AM

Although a worthy effort has been made to fix what many have seen as a flaw, another was built in with the new change. I have not seen any where mentioning total damage one causes to the opposing players. Example I had over 1000 points of damage, we lost the match, and I received no credit other than not dropping in PSR. It is frustrating that that individual performance is not heavily factored in, at a minimum as a bonus to allow ones PSR to move 1 point upward. It is Pilot Skill Level....not team.

#434 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:18 AM

With a 1000 damage your matchscore should've been high enough to actually rise in PSR even on a loss; unless you did loads of team damage and / or teamkills.
Take a look at this nice explanation video that Brios put up:


#435 Nesutizale

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:44 AM

View PostGeneral Vulcan, on 16 July 2020 - 07:56 PM, said:

The match score is too easy to get to Tier 1 , should be a wider gap in the score system to include equal. I seen it once. Every loss i went up . Granted I pulled my weight , But 250 + granted me a boost? Maybe 350 + for a match score should be the start. Least going from Tier 2-1. What I am saying is , It is still too easy and the players able to get to tier 1 will start saying there is clearly a skill gap in Tier 1. The reset was cool , but the problem still isn't solved. Example is today , many players do ok and still go up. Many comp players will say the same , way too easy .

Second note , 5 min wait for 90% chance of a Nascar match . We all know what those are .I am Tier 1 . If I am still going to get people under Tier 2 , because of population issues , just fast roll it like before . There is no difference in match play. More matches the better . The wait wouldn't be bad if everyone in that match was my Tier.


Are you talking about the boost you get from winning a game?
I don't know why people insisted on it beeing there but hey.

System seams to work for me. Recorded all my matches since the reset. So far I have a PSR change of zero with very slightly more wins then losses (4 more matches won then lost out of 50 total) and average matchscore of 243.
That beeing said, I am a for fun player. Pick the mech of the day, jump into some matches and go off again.

Matches have been all over the place from total stomps to well coordinated fun games. Currently the game is quite fun for me. Have some good players I face, have some stupids and everything in between in a well balanced manner.
Even win and losses are so that I win one match, loose one to just win the next...as said with the very slight trend towards winning.

Personaly I think we need at least another month to sort people out before we can judge the system and match quality.

#436 OneTeamPlayer

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 06:25 AM

View PostBlackjack Jonesy, on 20 July 2020 - 02:07 AM, said:

Although a worthy effort has been made to fix what many have seen as a flaw, another was built in with the new change. I have not seen any where mentioning total damage one causes to the opposing players. Example I had over 1000 points of damage, we lost the match, and I received no credit other than not dropping in PSR. It is frustrating that that individual performance is not heavily factored in, at a minimum as a bonus to allow ones PSR to move 1 point upward. It is Pilot Skill Level....not team.


The only way one makes 1K damage and drops in rank is if a significant portion of that damage was team damage.

Team damage absolutely craters matchscore (as it should) so an poorly placed arty strike can cost an entire match worth of damage to the enemy team.

#437 Blackjack Jonesy

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 04:07 AM

Before you dismiss this please read.

1. PSR is pilot skill and should have nothing to do with wins and losses. You should not be penalized for the failure of the team.
2. Many complain about the low participation rate which can be attributed too a few points of view (my prospective):
a. Poor performance of lower skilled players.
b. Unforgiving higher skilled players who seek to chastise the skills of newer players thus resulting in bad experience for lower skilled players.
c. Higher skilled players being penalized for losing after they have had great matches.
d. Slow movement in PSR.
3. Real world. Military units are composed of members of all skill levels and it is invaluable. This allows lower skill members to learn off higher skilled members, thus increasing their contribution to the team.
4. Ideally in a match I would hope the following:
a. 5%-10% tier 1
b. 5%-10% tier 2
c. 15%-20% tier 3
d. 25%-30% tier 4
3. 30%> tier 5
This allows for multiple skill levels to balance and give the more effective mech pilots a chance to lead the group using their knowledge and skills to guide the battle.
5. Adding wins and losses as part of the PSR only frustrates those who have no choice on who they are teamed up with.
6. If you want closer more fierce fighting to the end, talent must be spread across the spectrum.

I would rather have great mech duels and fierce fighting that results in narrow victories more
than one sided stomps that only demoralize opponents resulting in them leaving the game.

View PostOneTeamPlayer, on 20 July 2020 - 06:25 AM, said:

The only way one makes 1K damage and drops in rank is if a significant portion of that damage was team damage.

Team damage absolutely craters matchscore (as it should) so an poorly placed arty strike can cost an entire match worth of damage to the enemy team.


Miss spoke, sorry. Although my PSR did not change, it is frustrating to have accumulated over 1000 points damage to the ENEMY and not receive any credit.

#438 OneTeamPlayer

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 04:50 AM

If PSR were based on W/L (it isn't) players would be extremely incentivized to work as a team leading to more interesting matches at higher ranks.

Instead PSR is linked to individual performance heavily (I had terrible losses most of my way to T1 and arrived at a 0.86 win ratio) so T1 is populated by people who best game the system individually with zero regard to skill in the area of teamwork leading the the worst matches I've seen in my time playing MWO from the "best" players.

#439 John Bronco

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 05:02 AM

View PostBlackjack Jonesy, on 21 July 2020 - 04:07 AM, said:


1. PSR is pilot skill and should have nothing to do with wins and losses. You should not be penalized for the failure of the team.



This awful emotional argument has been beaten to death a hundred times. Given enough games played your W/L shows your contribution to the team and thus skill. If you perform well you will win more games than you lose regardless of what happens in the losses. You are your W/L.

#440 Horseman

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 05:06 AM

View PostBlackjack Jonesy, on 21 July 2020 - 04:07 AM, said:

1. PSR is pilot skill and should have nothing to do with wins and losses. You should not be penalized for the failure of the team.
So instead you should be promoted for engaging in degenerate tactics that farm score but lose matches?





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