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Psr Update And Changes - Jun 2020


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#401 Horseman

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 04:07 AM

View PostMunkeyed, on 08 June 2020 - 12:05 AM, said:

Go back to the CODEX!!!!~
HONOUR system!!
Enough cyber-bullying getting esteem!
YOU DON'T WIN by FIGHTING
YOU WIN by LIVING!!!!
LITERALLY!!


If everyone's a winner then NOBODY is a winner.
This is a game about FIGHTING. With GIANT ROBOTS. And NATIONAL STEREOTYPES. In SPACE. Your argument is invalid.

Edited by Horseman, 08 June 2020 - 04:08 AM.


#402 TunaFist88

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 04:14 AM

Beating a dead tuna here, but is it 0 sum (each team points balance out to 0) when a loss is going to be significantly (-) points? losing teams rarely make 400dmg pp; per the proposed, most of the losing team will accrue more negative given thresholds vs winners' threshold of positive.
with the patch coming in 30 hours this post's effect is moot, but would a true neutralizing 0-sum rank players by score where positions 1-3 earn 5pts 4-6: 3 pts, 7-9: 1 pt, and 10-12 (carried)= 0? inverse for opfor. THAT is a more accurate zero-sum, no?

what about backplate eating lights or mechs what use efficacy vs number farming? what value is a a kill w less damage/points by through the back, or swiped light legs out w an alpha? anyone bringing a light will work harder for numbers, and having less armor to farm, makes them reward opfor less. maybe some changes to rewards for scouting, hit and run, brawl?

I do not want to stagnate doing what I love in lights, my contributions seemingly becoming less-so b/c of weighted raw damage numbers and less than realisitic thresholds.

#403 RRAMIREZ

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 05:21 AM

View PostTunaFist88, on 08 June 2020 - 04:14 AM, said:

with the patch coming in 30 hours

This is not sure:
https://mwomercs.com...tch-jun-5-2020/

#404 Knight Captain Morgan

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 05:41 AM

View PostAnomalocaris, on 04 June 2020 - 10:07 AM, said:

Shorter summary:

1. Match quality went down even in the best case scenario post merge. Goal not met.
.

Nailed it

#405 Firefox54

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 08:12 AM

I'm posting this here and below (since we somehow now have two threads).

I missed the info that Kerensky posted (above) ... if they're sticking with the current (proposed) approach, it's a little disappointing that they didn't listen to the community (and people will state that's not a surprise) ... I was hoping that they would come up with some truly zero-sum ...

That being said, I kept track of the scores the last few times I played ... that was15 matches ... out of that, under the new (proposed) system, the difference between the sum of the points the winning team received, and the sum of the points the losing team received was, on average, -1.7 ... pretty close to zero with the spread (the differences ranged from +16 to -29). On average the winning team gained 30.9 points and losing team lost 32.7 points (the mean gain/loss was 32 for both teams).

So, while not zero-sum the system (albeit under a small sample size), seems to be close ... I'll probably keep track a little longer ... or maybe PGI will provide them.

View PostD V Devnull, on 07 June 2020 - 01:03 AM, said:

ATTENTION, EVERYONE!!!

The currently active discussion has moved onto another thread without you! Please head to...

>>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/277194-holding-tuesdays-patch-jun-5-2020/ <<<

...which was also started by Paul Inouye and is where you can get in on discussing the latest! Posted Image

~Mr. D. V. "Come to the right thread! I'll see you over there, alright?" Devnull


#406 Lionheart2012

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 12:01 PM

View PostVoice of Kerensky, on 07 June 2020 - 06:57 PM, said:

Okay. Let's see how the new system will work. Although I would like for the developers to listen to the opinions of the players for real.


For all the salt about not being listened too, you missed that we are being listened to.

https://mwomercs.com...tch-jun-5-2020/

#407 Vargancy

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:27 PM

I think that 0-100 match score on win should still provide at least -1 PSR. Someone who is getting less than 100 match score is playing very badly, they should be losing PSR regardless if their team wins or not.

#408 The Ghost Walker

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 02:50 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 03 June 2020 - 12:09 PM, said:

To change this, we will be implementing the following:

Current PSR values:

Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -2
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 251-400 does not move.
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +1

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5

New PSR values:
Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -5
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -3
Match Score: 251-400 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 401+ does not move.

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5


BOOOO!

Seriously doesn't take a math genius to look at the old way, and to be able to figure out a minor tweak that gives players what they want but also isn't entirely dependent upon your drop team.

Might as well just make this W/L Rating rather than pilot rating.

Though I guess it will be nice not having so many light mechs on the field all the time.

#409 BROARL

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:12 PM

make MW5 PvP. ...invest your time somewhere that will yield greater rewards for everyone.

#410 Roodkapje

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:16 PM

Is this the reason why I have been experiencing such bad games over the past few days ?!

The games during the previous Event were a lot more FUN than the last week or so during the last Event! :(

#411 Brauer

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Posted 08 June 2020 - 03:29 PM

View PostRoodkapje, on 08 June 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:

Is this the reason why I have been experiencing such bad games over the past few days ?!

The games during the previous Event were a lot more FUN than the last week or so during the last Event! :(


No reset has taken place yet.

#412 FearThePaladin

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

#413 FearThePaladin

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 05:01 AM

One more item of note... since you have now placed groups into solo que.... The PSR does not matter one hoot.... You get a bunch o 228 guys stomping around in solo que and every one on their team is a winner and the other team is stomp stompy.

#414 Horseman

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 05:36 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL


You want to make your input known at https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

#415 MrTBSC

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 06:23 AM

PSR definetively needs to be based on personal performance than win or loss, however too often the teamwork causes way too much impact on ones personal performance, and the archievement on kills and teamkills is the biggest factor .. specifically for players who like to go for a supportrole with lower tonnage mechs ... this needs to be addressed ..

#416 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 07:31 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL


MWO is damage oriented. Even though MWO is supposed to be a team-oriented game, does the general population treat it as such?

Anyhow. damage gives 50% of itself to the MS. Over 50 drop the damage portion accounts for approx 64%, overall. For Wins 60% while for losses account for 68%. Again, personally, the losses had a much narrower range than on the wins, where I could say I was actually carried on one match, with damage accounting for 28% of that MS. To note, solo piloting primarily mediums with a light, a few heavies and assaults in the mix.

But complaint without giving alternatives? What difference would it make if instead of 30% instead of 50% of damage went to MS? In the end MS was simply the number utilized by PGI's PSR preset value to determine the movement amount up/down the Tier's experience bar. Someone with a 401 MS and 700 MS moved the same amount on a win, and the same on a loss, but different amount when compared to a win.

And damage is how a mech is killed, with LRM/etc being less effective individually but the more when are added, the greater the effect in helping to get pass any AMS screens, as well as matching players duck out of site.. If a player is hiding then said player is not pouring out damage.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 June 2020 - 07:44 AM.


#417 Roodkapje

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Posted 09 June 2020 - 10:24 AM

View PostFearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage.

Funny : I think it doesn't do that enough! :)

Needing about 850 of damage to score 500 Match Score is just weird IMHO.

Quote

Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

My favorite high damage solution will always be DAKKA or Gauss based so I don't really see any issue there ?!

#418 Rick T Dangerous

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 02:09 PM

Step in the right direction.

#419 Horseman

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 04:31 AM

View PostMetalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

If you look at the aim many noobs have, i think they play with a trackball, using their tongue instead of the hand.
Don't you mean a steering wheel? A trackball would be more accurate.

View PostMetalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 11:00 PM, said:

At last it wont matter how you match skillless fools with very good players, the match quality wont be good, as long as the noobs arent willing to improve.

I mean, the least that can be done is ensuring the MM rating is tuned to be accurate... then at least both sides should get roughly equal amount of deadweights and tumbleweeds

#420 Viktor von Stompenstein

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Posted 17 June 2020 - 09:18 AM

It's nice that PGI is taking a look at improving PSRs and matchmaking, although it seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

The problem is that as usual, they are focused on tweaking an existing system (PSR) that does not actually do the needed job. The job is not to more accurately rate players. The job is tomake better matches.

Improving PSR will not add more players. You'll still end up with Tier 4's pulled into higher tier battles. Given the usual matchmaking mechanics, it won't result in much better matchmaking either. Even the stats posted by PGI at the start of the thread (sorry I couldn't read all 22 pages) show that these sort of tweaks might make a small difference in a 30% Stomp Rate. 30% stomps!

By any rational standard that would be considered a ridiculous failure in matchmaking.

To improve matches and not ratings, you need to take into account more than just tonnage and PSR. You need a player effectiveness in this match rating. That would be a number that could be calculated after each match in a mech, then stored in that mech just like the tonnage is stored. You could base it on player overall performance (like PSR), performance in this class of mech, performance in this specific mech, and perhaps a small modifier for 'this mech's rating overall', ie, is this an OP, average, or UP mech.

Then when matchmaking, you'd be balancing with Tonnage X player effectiveness rating (PER) which would take into account how effective the various players are with the actual mechs used in that battle. Then it's less significant if a tier 4 is pulled into a higher tier battle because both sides will be balanced with a mix of good and bad players in their better or worse performing mechs.

The goal wouldn't be to make perfectly matched battles, but simply to prevent one out of every 3 or 4 matches ending in a stomp, while minimizing calculation time to form the battle (because all the calcs were done at the end of the previous match rather than while matchmaking).





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