490 replies to this topic

[Firefox54]

I'm posting this here and below (since we somehow now have two threads).

I missed the info that Kerensky posted (above) ... if they're sticking with the current (proposed) approach, it's a little disappointing that they didn't listen to the community (and people will state that's not a surprise) ... I was hoping that they would come up with some truly zero-sum ...

That being said, I kept track of the scores the last few times I played ... that was15 matches ... out of that, under the new (proposed) system, the difference between the sum of the points the winning team received, and the sum of the points the losing team received was, on average, -1.7 ... pretty close to zero with the spread (the differences ranged from +16 to -29). On average the winning team gained 30.9 points and losing team lost 32.7 points (the mean gain/loss was 32 for both teams).

So, while not zero-sum the system (albeit under a small sample size), seems to be close ... I'll probably keep track a little longer ... or maybe PGI will provide them.

D V Devnull, on 07 June 2020 - 01:03 AM, said:

ATTENTION, EVERYONE!!!

The currently active discussion has moved onto another thread without you! Please head to...

>>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/277194-holding-tuesdays-patch-jun-5-2020/ <<<

...which was also started by Paul Inouye and is where you can get in on discussing the latest!

~Mr. D. V. "Come to the right thread! I'll see you over there, alright?" Devnull

[Lionheart2012]

Voice of Kerensky, on 07 June 2020 - 06:57 PM, said:

Okay. Let's see how the new system will work. Although I would like for the developers to listen to the opinions of the players for real.

For all the salt about not being listened too, you missed that we are being listened to.

https://mwomercs.com...tch-jun-5-2020/

[Vargancy]

I think that 0-100 match score on win should still provide at least -1 PSR. Someone who is getting less than 100 match score is playing very badly, they should be losing PSR regardless if their team wins or not.

[The Ghost Walker]

Paul Inouye, on 03 June 2020 - 12:09 PM, said:

To change this, we will be implementing the following:

Current PSR values:

Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -2
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 251-400 does not move.
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +1

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5

New PSR values:
Player LOSES:
Match Score: 0-100 goes down in PSR by -5
Match Score: 101-250 goes down in PSR by -3
Match Score: 251-400 goes down in PSR by -1
Match Score: 401+ does not move.

Player WINS:
Match Score: 0-100 does not move.
Match Score: 101-250 goes up in PSR by +1
Match Score: 251-400 goes up in PSR by +3
Match Score: 401+ goes up in PSR by +5

BOOOO!

Seriously doesn't take a math genius to look at the old way, and to be able to figure out a minor tweak that gives players what they want but also isn't entirely dependent upon your drop team.

Might as well just make this W/L Rating rather than pilot rating.

Though I guess it will be nice not having so many light mechs on the field all the time.

[BROARL]

make MW5 PvP. ...invest your time somewhere that will yield greater rewards for everyone.

[Roodkapje]

Is this the reason why I have been experiencing such bad games over the past few days ?!

The games during the previous Event were a lot more FUN than the last week or so during the last Event!

[Brauer]

Roodkapje, on 08 June 2020 - 03:16 PM, said:

Is this the reason why I have been experiencing such bad games over the past few days ?!

The games during the previous Event were a lot more FUN than the last week or so during the last Event!

No reset has taken place yet.

[FearThePaladin]

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

[FearThePaladin]

One more item of note... since you have now placed groups into solo que.... The PSR does not matter one hoot.... You get a bunch o 228 guys stomping around in solo que and every one on their team is a winner and the other team is stomp stompy.

[Horseman]

FearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

You want to make your input known at https://mwomercs.com...-hold-on-patch/

[MrTBSC]

PSR definetively needs to be based on personal performance than win or loss, however too often the teamwork causes way too much impact on ones personal performance, and the archievement on kills and teamkills is the biggest factor .. specifically for players who like to go for a supportrole with lower tonnage mechs ... this needs to be addressed ..

[Tarl Cabot]

FearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage. Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

MWO is damage oriented. Even though MWO is supposed to be a team-oriented game, does the general population treat it as such?

Anyhow. damage gives 50% of itself to the MS. Over 50 drop the damage portion accounts for approx 64%, overall. For Wins 60% while for losses account for 68%. Again, personally, the losses had a much narrower range than on the wins, where I could say I was actually carried on one match, with damage accounting for 28% of that MS. To note, solo piloting primarily mediums with a light, a few heavies and assaults in the mix.

But complaint without giving alternatives? What difference would it make if instead of 30% instead of 50% of damage went to MS? In the end MS was simply the number utilized by PGI's PSR preset value to determine the movement amount up/down the Tier's experience bar. Someone with a 401 MS and 700 MS moved the same amount on a win, and the same on a loss, but different amount when compared to a win.

And damage is how a mech is killed, with LRM/etc being less effective individually but the more when are added, the greater the effect in helping to get pass any AMS screens, as well as matching players duck out of site.. If a player is hiding then said player is not pouring out damage.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 09 June 2020 - 07:44 AM.

[Roodkapje]

FearThePaladin, on 09 June 2020 - 04:26 AM, said:

Game score relies too much on damage.

Funny : I think it doesn't do that enough!

Needing about 850 of damage to score 500 Match Score is just weird IMHO.

Quote

Seriously when it take 5+ seconds to rev up a HG for a shot and maybe 1 second to fire it... You are getting a serious LOW DPS. Missiles... ATM, LRM, MRM.. and RACs are all DPS heavy and lead to a high "skill" ratio. Thats not skill its spraying damage. I do not expect there to be a change to how the scores are made but I would put my HG skill up against anyone and dare you to call me tier 5, but I can almost promise that is where I will sit and farm all the nobs... LOL

My favorite high damage solution will always be DAKKA or Gauss based so I don't really see any issue there ?!

[Rick T Dangerous]

Step in the right direction.

[Horseman]

Metalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

If you look at the aim many noobs have, i think they play with a trackball, using their tongue instead of the hand.

Don't you mean a steering wheel? A trackball would be more accurate.

Metalgod69, on 16 June 2020 - 11:00 PM, said:

At last it wont matter how you match skillless fools with very good players, the match quality wont be good, as long as the noobs arent willing to improve.

I mean, the least that can be done is ensuring the MM rating is tuned to be accurate... then at least both sides should get roughly equal amount of deadweights and tumbleweeds

[Viktor von Stompenstein]

It's nice that PGI is taking a look at improving PSRs and matchmaking, although it seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horses have bolted.

The problem is that as usual, they are focused on tweaking an existing system (PSR) that does not actually do the needed job. The job is not to more accurately rate players. The job is tomake better matches.

Improving PSR will not add more players. You'll still end up with Tier 4's pulled into higher tier battles. Given the usual matchmaking mechanics, it won't result in much better matchmaking either. Even the stats posted by PGI at the start of the thread (sorry I couldn't read all 22 pages) show that these sort of tweaks might make a small difference in a 30% Stomp Rate. 30% stomps!

By any rational standard that would be considered a ridiculous failure in matchmaking.

To improve matches and not ratings, you need to take into account more than just tonnage and PSR. You need a player effectiveness in this match rating. That would be a number that could be calculated after each match in a mech, then stored in that mech just like the tonnage is stored. You could base it on player overall performance (like PSR), performance in this class of mech, performance in this specific mech, and perhaps a small modifier for 'this mech's rating overall', ie, is this an OP, average, or UP mech.

Then when matchmaking, you'd be balancing with Tonnage X player effectiveness rating (PER) which would take into account how effective the various players are with the actual mechs used in that battle. Then it's less significant if a tier 4 is pulled into a higher tier battle because both sides will be balanced with a mix of good and bad players in their better or worse performing mechs.

The goal wouldn't be to make perfectly matched battles, but simply to prevent one out of every 3 or 4 matches ending in a stomp, while minimizing calculation time to form the battle (because all the calcs were done at the end of the previous match rather than while matchmaking).

[Slothasaurus]

I am all for any thing that will bring some improvement even a little bit.

It's frustrating and demoralizing playing match after match and each game 4 or even half the team scoring below 100pts. Last match for example I had 283pts, but the next highest score on the team was 167pts. It's hard to do anything when put on team after team like that. I'm not good enough to carry a team on my own, but will do good enough to not hurt a team. If placed on teams like that I have no hope of getting a W. I've probably lost 12 of my last 15 matches. I've scored highs of around 500pts and low of 230pts, but loss after loss.

Who knows maybe I'm the problem on the teams. Hoping/praying the work PGI is doing with the matchmaker will help even things out.

[NICOLAS78]

...
never mind there was an update since then
...

Edited by NICOLAS78, 03 July 2020 - 11:12 AM.

[Horseman]

NICOLAS78, on 02 July 2020 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am afraid the FIX did NOT address the real problem(s) very well,
since by your own measurements you say that AFTER the FIX,
the stomp rate is STILL WORSE than before the merging...
now 30% of stomp is it just how nature is, or can we do better?
I believe we can likely do better (and without changing much).

Remember that it will take a week or two for the algorithm to settle most players in the correct position.

[Big-G]

I for one find this new setup too much of a punishment for the few players that try their best, but just can't carry a weak or poorly willed and managed team...