379 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Big-G, on 12 July 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

I wouldn't make assumptions...

He's right, ask any player in the top 90%.

Their top cause they kill mechs

Killing mechs wins games better than objectives

[OneTeamPlayer]

Sawk, on 13 July 2020 - 04:14 PM, said:

this new system is not working and not helping guys level up, the old system was better, all you needed to do was change the damage, old system was 400,, change that to say 300 damage your bell curve will show up.

Sawk

My take would be the problem is that people are leveling out before they ever level down to an enjoyable tier for them.

Also that MM is so wide that at least Tier 1 and Tier 4 players are matched together (in primetime) while poor cadets are in T3 and guaranteed to be matched against T1 in the 1-3/2-4/3-5 setup even when MM were working "properly".

[Biomechtric]

Sawk, on 13 July 2020 - 04:14 PM, said:

this new system is not working and not helping guys level up, the old system was better, all you needed to do was change the damage, old system was 400,, change that to say 300 damage your bell curve will show up.

Sawk

It's not about 'leveling up', that was how the old system ended up working.
PSR is NOT an XP bar, it is there to show your skill & therefore allow the matchmaker to select players of roughly the same skill levels for matches.
Some people are going to go down to T4 & T5, some up to T2 & T1 & the majority should hover around T3. All of this is good & going up in PSR is now, no longer an almost certainty.

[Big-G]

OZHomerOZ, on 13 July 2020 - 04:35 PM, said:

He's right, ask any player in the top 90%.

Their top cause they kill mechs

Killing mechs wins games better than objectives

You still make assumptions about my play style...

[OneTeamPlayer]

Biomechtric, on 13 July 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's not about 'leveling up', that was how the old system ended up working.
PSR is NOT an XP bar, it is there to show your skill & therefore allow the matchmaker to select players of roughly the same skill levels for matches.
Some people are going to go down to T4 & T5, some up to T2 & T1 & the majority should hover around T3. All of this is good & going up in PSR is now, no longer an almost certainty.

If a majority hover around T3 (as Paul mentioned was the plan when introducing) then Tiers fail as any sort of matchmaking tool.

If a majority of the population can be balanced both with T1 players and T5 players, and there are also likely not enough players in T1 or T5 to create a tier only match in either of them, what was the point of creating the separation in the first place?

Might as well have put on a random sort and called it a day.

[Sawk]

LOL you guys are defending, a broken system, ask for from guys that play the game, and upset there tier 3 4 or 5, you did not build the game, or had help building the system for tier groups, you were not in there meeting, there team talks, ect ect ect, PGI tier system worked just fine, 1 little adjustment, lower the damage to level up, you go up if you win, if you hit 300 damage, and maybe kill someone, odds are i'll do 200 damage, but i'll kill 2 guys. my words will bear fruit when the numbers come out : )

Sawk
PS me think you all over thinked the whole darn problem

[OneTeamPlayer]

Quote

LOL you guys are defending, a broken system,

I don't think there are many people who are pleased with the current system and outside of the cabal who pushed misinformation to have it implemented there are next to none.

Heck even within the circle i'd imagine that the whole "everyone in tier 3" is viewed in a harshly negative light.

[Xaat Xuun]

May had been better to reset everyone to tier 5, and work their way back up again with the new system.

well at least mid Tier .4.
I know I'm not alone, being place on a bad team (pretty sure we've all been there), going down, then getting matched with even lower skill players, if one can carry somewhat, will move back up, but if you can't carry, being on a bad team, you're going to end up stuck in the lower tiers.

I like the idea , of losing tier if I'm bad, but not a fan, that if I can't 1v12, I'm just going to keep going down, some matches feel that way, I do still get the up arrow, but it places me back up with the higher psr losers.

My friends list is basically grayed out, getting in a group with same battle approach/logic, is not happening any more.
I'm pretty much just in the mood, to just yolo any more, and that doesn't help the team or my PSR


oh and one more thing, why can't I be on the team that is half full of assaults , instead of being on the team with just one assault. yeeeeah, . . . so I can get more damage, if they separate and less murder ball, still though, I want to be on that team with all those assaults

[crazytimes]

Xaat Xuun, on 13 July 2020 - 07:57 PM, said:

I know I'm not alone, being place on a bad team (pretty sure we've all been there), going down, then getting matched with even lower skill players, if one can carry somewhat, will move back up, but if you can't carry, being on a bad team, you're going to end up stuck in the lower tiers.

I like the idea , of losing tier if I'm bad, but not a fan, that if I can't 1v12, I'm just going to keep going down, some matches feel that way, I do still get the up arrow, but it places me back up with the higher psr losers.

Yeah nah. Your performance is being measured relative to your team.

Any potato action your team mates make reduce the team and match average MS and make it easier to beat and go up in PSR. If you think you are getting bad teams consistently, but you are consistently in the bottom half of the MS and keep going down... you may want to consider if the team is the common factor there.

Are you familiar with the leaderboard and jarlslist? You may want to seek some guidance from players who offer training to people wishing to improve their playstyle.

[General Solo]

Big-G, on 13 July 2020 - 04:53 PM, said:

You still make assumptions about my play style...

I make no assumptions.

A guy gives you advice, says something to effect of "Killing mechs is better for winning than other stuff most of the time".

Which is true imo and in the opinion of many top players.

You reply with something about "assumption bla bla bla."

I think WOW this guy must be really guid and know something I don't.
So I check your stats just to better interpret your "assumption bla bla bla." reply to a guy giving you known guid advice.

So my response is:
"Killing mechs is better for winning than other stuff most of the time" is the correct answer, make no assumptions about it.

[Biomechtric]

Xaat Xuun, on 13 July 2020 - 07:57 PM, said:

May had been better to reset everyone to tier 5, and work their way back up again with the new system.

well at least mid Tier .4.
I know I'm not alone, being place on a bad team (pretty sure we've all been there), going down, then getting matched with even lower skill players, if one can carry somewhat, will move back up, but if you can't carry, being on a bad team, you're going to end up stuck in the lower tiers.

I like the idea , of losing tier if I'm bad, but not a fan, that if I can't 1v12, I'm just going to keep going down, some matches feel that way, I do still get the up arrow, but it places me back up with the higher psr losers.

My friends list is basically grayed out, getting in a group with same battle approach/logic, is not happening any more.
I'm pretty much just in the mood, to just yolo any more, and that doesn't help the team or my PSR


oh and one more thing, why can't I be on the team that is half full of assaults , instead of being on the team with just one assault. yeeeeah, . . . so I can get more damage, if they separate and less murder ball, still though, I want to be on that team with all those assaults

Sounds like it is working as intended.
If you are consistently going down in PSR it means you are playing with people that are above your skill level(by PSR's current definition) & that you are settling into the tier you personally have the skill to be in.

Would it be correct for, say, people that plays Basketball for hours a week to play at the professional level with players that practice every day & have trainers etc to help. Most(sane) people would say hell no!! As the games would be terrible due to the massive skill difference. MWO is no different, the skill gap between the casuals & the top players is huge & having them all in the same match is inherently bad & so here we are, trying to fix that problem.
Some of you are going to lose that oh so special T1 badge due to the fact it was gained by grinding a huge amount of matches & did not reflect the players skill level.
We also need to show some patience as it will take more than 100 matches for the players to 'settle in' to the new system.

[Tarl Cabot]

Biomechtric, on 14 July 2020 - 12:51 AM, said:

Sounds like it is working as intended.

If you are consistently going down in PSR it means you are playing with people that are above your skill level(by PSR's current definition) & that you are settling into the tier you personally have the skill to be in.

Would it be correct for, say, people that plays Basketball for hours a week to play at the professional level with players that practice every day & have trainers etc to help. Most(sane) people would say hell no!! As the games would be terrible due to the massive skill difference. MWO is no different, the skill gap between the casuals & the top players is huge & having them all in the same match is inherently bad & so here we are, trying to fix that problem.

Some of you are going to lose that oh so special T1 badge due to the fact it was gained by grinding a huge amount of matches & did not reflect the players skill level.

We also need to show some patience as it will take more than 100 matches for the players to 'settle in' to the new system.

From Xaat Xuun perspective though, even with the reset, it can be disheartening to win a match but have that downward arrow due to low MS. Even though he has not played this month, unless he is on another account, it is the perception.

Though, even in his shoes, if PGI had started everyone off in Tier 4 he would still be in the same boat as he is now because everyone should be moved out of tier 4 still has to drop into the game to do it. It would be much better if PGI had reseeded the playerbase, even if it had been between Tier 2-4, while having new players start off in Tier 4 at least. Even now, PGI could potentially still reseed the remaining players in Tier 3 and split them up between Tier 2-4 based on avg MS over last X amount of games (not months)

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Sawk, on 13 July 2020 - 05:49 PM, said:

LOL you guys are defending, a broken system, ask for from guys that play the game, and upset there tier 3 4 or 5, you did not build the game, or had help building the system for tier groups, you were not in there meeting, there team talks, ect ect ect, PGI tier system worked just fine, 1 little adjustment, lower the damage to level up, you go up if you win, if you hit 300 damage, and maybe kill someone, odds are i'll do 200 damage, but i'll kill 2 guys. my words will bear fruit when the numbers come out : )

Sawk
PS me think you all over thinked the whole darn problem

The new PSR system was made to help players like yourself have better matches ONCE you get into the appropriate tier. Your history on the Jarls rankings show month after month you are a bottom 25% player. You might feel you should be going up because you have been around a while, but you really shouldn’t be matched against top tier players....that not where you can have success at this time. With this system you should have far more success once you have “leveled down” to probably tier 4 and then you can float around between tier 3,4 and 5 as your results dictate. I am not saying the MS calculation is perfect, but you really should be looking to get into a tier of players of around your actual skill level...and then should your skill improve your tier can.

[crazytimes]

Biomechtric, on 14 July 2020 - 12:51 AM, said:

Some of you are going to lose that oh so special T1 badge due to the fact it was gained by grinding a huge amount of matches & did not reflect the players skill level.
We also need to show some patience as it will take more than 100 matches for the players to 'settle in' to the new system.

There is a problem though. One that I suspect a lot of the huge mathematical papers and graphs and simulations ignored. The three tier spread.

I am not in the top 20% of players. I had some terrible seasons recently in the bottom 50% for various reasons, but I am objectively a mediocre player. I am also about 1/3 of the way through tier 2 on the way to 1 and there is nothing that will stop that under the current system because of that 3 tier spread. There aren't enough people for single tier MM either, so if people aren't dropping or stable at 3, they will continue to grind up to 1 the same as the old system... and we're back to where we started.

[Old Mechdonald]

Yeee haw!

[Marquis De Lafayette]

crazytimes, on 14 July 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

There is a problem though. One that I suspect a lot of the huge mathematical papers and graphs and simulations ignored. The three tier spread.

I am not in the top 20% of players. I had some terrible seasons recently in the bottom 50% for various reasons, but I am objectively a mediocre player. I am also about 1/3 of the way through tier 2 on the way to 1 and there is nothing that will stop that under the current system because of that 3 tier spread. There aren't enough people for single tier MM either, so if people aren't dropping or stable at 3, they will continue to grind up to 1 the same as the old system... and we're back to where we started.

I believe there is likely a certain amount of tier-inflation going on (as it’s early) as having all the newbies and truly awful old-timers lumped in with even average pilots (who under the old system were tier 1 and never saw the truly bad pilots). As more players get into tier 2 and tier 1 hopefully PGI’s matchmaker will match make more upper tier matches and that will hopefully tamp some back to tier 3 (assuming they are average players). It’s the hope anyway....

[MODOK69]

Not playing another match until PGI at least communicates what they intend to do about the tonnage issues in matches!! All this talk about fixing the PSR and then consistently getting matches where 8 to 2 in assaults are common and I could give you screen shot after screen shot to prove it. I've made it to T1 but at my skill level I had to play my best MECHS mainly to try and deal with the tonnage issue. PGI is on role but if no communication is forthcoming I'm finding another game!

[Sawk]

Hmm interesting, so now its only about teams that are good, and few pilots coming back that were tier 1, and some funky web site that say what rank you are, WOW,
i started replying here because the solo player like my self, all years--- and the new guys, that play a few times a week, have no chance of leveling up, they find it hard to find friends, there looked down on, there trying to build there first lazer vomit that works, ect ect.
the system for the bigger 70% of us that makes up, the bulk of cash flow to PGI, just needed a small adjustment, as clanner i call that blood sport. system is broken bring back the old one.
PS i do not care how you feel, i have been hunted, by many some times i get lucky and kill you and your buddy, and i would suggest you being a buddy.

Sawk

[Xaat Xuun]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 July 2020 - 07:29 AM, said:

unless he is on another account,

off topic, but yeah, I play on a different account, and just use this one for forums.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--==-=-=--=-=-
.
If I ever received a down arrow, on a win, I deserved it. Well any down arrow really, my win/loss is now below 2, and skyrocketing down, that is not making me happy. I am bothered more by the W/L
how did that saying go, hard to fly like an eagle when surrounded by Turkeys . . something like that

[Biomechtric]

Sawk, on 14 July 2020 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hmm interesting, so now its only about teams that are good, and few pilots coming back that were tier 1, and some funky web site that say what rank you are, WOW,
i started replying here because the solo player like my self, all years--- and the new guys, that play a few times a week, have no chance of leveling up, they find it hard to find friends, there looked down on, there trying to build there first lazer vomit that works, ect ect.
the system for the bigger 70% of us that makes up, the bulk of cash flow to PGI, just needed a small adjustment, as clanner i call that blood sport. system is broken bring back the old one.
PS i do not care how you feel, i have been hunted, by many some times i get lucky and kill you and your buddy, and i would suggest you being a buddy.

Sawk

There is no 'Leveling up' involved in the PSR system, why are so many finding this hard to understand? If you are of a high skill level you are a high tier, if you are of a low skill level you will be low tier & if you are somewhere in the middle you are(surprise) mid tier.
This is to allow the matchmaker to place people in matches against others of around the same skill. If you play well your PSR will increase, if not it will decrease.
The only 'leveling up' I can think of is skill points on your mechs & if the new PSR system works as intended(this will take some time for enough matches to be played to place players into the tiers they are suited to) it will be easier as you will be against people that are around your own skill level.
The old system was broken as it allowed low skill players who played lots of matches into the upper tiers(even with low match scores) & hence placed them into matches against the very top players in the game. As they were all in Tier 1 the matchmaker could not tell them apart. This was bad for both parties as the match quality was terrible.