83 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

The increased lock speed is tempting, but why tho?

Why do you need LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks to be useful at getting closer ranges? Not singled out thus increased survivability is incentive enough to "Moving up with the team".

I agree with Streaks being Stream-Fired, in fact I would like it pretty much that SRMs are stream-fired. But contrast with ATMs, the SSRMs aren't really terribly effective or ineffective solely because it's volley-fired, it's main quirk is that it's component-seeking, and volley-firing won't terribly affect that -- and while it can, for an already niche weapon system, question the point and the efficacy of the changes.

You could make it so that all homing missiles at the beginning of lock sequence, you only need complete lock to maximize the tracking. Being able to fire immediately, and THEN complete the lock mid-air would be super helpful. That being said, it's already getting flak right now and is still performing wonderfully for it's intended role.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 October 2020 - 05:04 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 05:04 PM, said:

The increased lock speed is tempting, but why tho?

Why do you need LRMs, ATMs, and Streaks to be useful at getting closer ranges? Not singled out thus increased survivability is incentive enough to "Moving up with the team".

I agree with Streaks being Stream-Fired, in fact I would like it pretty much that SRMs are stream-fired. But contrast with ATMs, the SSRMs aren't really terribly effective or ineffective solely because it's volley-fired, it's main quirk is that it's component-seeking, and volley-firing won't terribly affect that -- and while it can, for an already niche weapon system, question the point and the efficacy of the changes.

You could make it so that all homing missiles at the beginning of lock sequence, you only need complete lock to maximize the tracking. Being able to fire immediately, and THEN complete the lock mid-air would be super helpful. That being said, it's already getting flak right now and is still performing wonderfully for it's intended role.

Being able to lock-on faster makes the weapons better in higher skilled play - you can briefly expose and fire, taking advantage of the lower shooting arc, rather than locking indirectly.

Completing a lock after firing was how it worked when LRMs first came out. People volleyed over their target and completed the lock for lrms to hit the target from behind. It got changed pretty quickly.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Being able to lock-on faster makes the weapons better in higher skilled play - you can briefly expose and fire, taking advantage of the lower shooting arc, rather than locking indirectly.

I agree, but that shouldn't be discounted for long range.

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

Completing a lock after firing was how it worked when LRMs first came out. People volleyed over their target and completed the lock for lrms to hit the target from behind. It got changed pretty quickly.

I don't understand. Is that the same as mine? As in you need to be in locking sequence to do that -- as in the circle is already being completed.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 October 2020 - 05:21 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 05:20 PM, said:

I agree, but that shouldn't be discounted for long range.

I'm not sure what you mean discounted for long range? There is no lock time, so adding a velocity nerf still results in the missiles getting to target a lot faster, hence the AMS buff as well to compensate.

I'm not sure what you mean in the second part.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean discounted for long range? There is no lock time, so adding a velocity nerf still results in the missiles getting to target a lot faster, hence the AMS buff as well to compensate.

Fair enough.

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:23 PM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean in the second part.

Well, you framed that second part like they were shooting into the air, and then starting-and-finishing lock afterwards so it'll curve and circumvent covers.

My proposal was you need to be at least in the middle of the locking sequence to fire a homing missile, and then it gains the most tracking when the lock is finished. Else if you haven't even started locking, it won't home.

[LordNothing]

i kind of liked the way it worked in living legends. you could run passive and be really hard to detect. you would need active sensors to use lerms in direct fire, and team support to use them indirect. lermers would either need gecm or have to find an acem mech and stand in its bubble to evade detection (they are lit up like a christmas tree on active sensors). indirect fire was a lot harder to pull off. you could do it with c3 spotters, or narc/tag. narc/tag were also extremely powerful, effectively allowing scouts to handle targeting in a very hands on fashion (lerm boats just spew missiles in the general direction of the blip). thus missiles are very weak when used solo and very strong in a teamwork environment. steering missiles was also really fun playstyle and allowed for effective scouting.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 October 2020 - 05:38 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

Well, you framed that second part like they were shooting into the air, and then starting-and-finishing lock afterwards so it'll curve and circumvent covers.

My proposal was you need to be at least in the middle of the locking sequence to fire a homing missile, and then it gains the most tracking when the lock is finished. Else if you haven't even started locking, it won't home.

Yes... today, you can start the lock sequence, dumb fire over a target, and complete the lock. It won't do anything, but you don't want it to...

Edited by Nightbird, 25 October 2020 - 05:41 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:40 PM, said:

Yes... today, you can start the lock sequence, dumb fire over a target, and complete the lock. It won't do anything, but you don't want it to...

Why not?

Seems like a skillful employment of LRMs. And with how locking system is made nowadays with increased lock-time at a distance when in IDF -- and you only need to bend LRMs while in IDF, that seems to be a lot harder than it looks.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 05:42 PM, said:

Why not?

Seems like a skillful employment of LRMs. And with how locking system is made nowadays with increased lock-time at a distance when in IDF -- and you only need to bend LRMs while in IDF, that seems to be a lot harder than it looks.

Because if you start the lock, dumb fire over a target, then complete the lock, the LRMs can do a 180 turn and hit the target in the back.

It's not skill, it's why that feature was nerfed. Like I mentioned, that is how it first worked.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 05:44 PM, said:

Because if you start the lock, dumb fire over a target, then complete the lock, the LRMs can do a 180 turn and hit the target in the back.

It's not skill, it's why that feature was nerfed. Like I mentioned, that is how it first worked.

But my model is progressive tracking, which means it's already homing once you launch it. It doesn't just snaps back into homing at the end of the lock.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 06:22 PM, said:

But my model is progressive tracking, which means it's already homing once you launch it. It doesn't just snaps back into homing at the end of the lock.

Ah ok, I don't believe you can change the spread in flight though. That would be a new feature.

[The6thMessenger]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

Ah ok, I don't believe you can change the spread in flight though. That would be a new feature.

I didn't say spread, I said tracking.

I do believe this is the speed which the missile course-corrects. The 100% tracking of SSRMs means they instantly changes course to follow the mech.

You know that when moving, there's a bit of LRMs that hit the ground when turning? I think even more LRMs would hit the ground when that happens.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 October 2020 - 06:41 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

So we are making changes to these weapons for no reasons I guess? Pretty much all change would break lock on weapons is that what you are going for?

Edited by SirSmokes, 25 October 2020 - 07:08 PM.

[Nightbird]

The6thMessenger, on 25 October 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

I didn't say spread, I said tracking.

I do believe this is the speed which the missile course-corrects. The 100% tracking of SSRMs means they instantly changes course to follow the mech.

You know that when moving, there's a bit of LRMs that hit the ground when turning? I think even more LRMs would hit the ground when that happens.

Sure I get what you're talking about. We don't usually see notice a difference in tracking strength unless it's a very fast mech.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 07:10 PM, said:

Sure I get what you're talking about. We don't usually see notice a difference in tracking strength unless it's a very fast mech.

So this is just about breaking lock on weapons go it.

[Nightbird]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 07:13 PM, said:

So this is just about breaking lock on weapons go it.

I guess you don't play this game enough to understand this is a buff.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 07:14 PM, said:

I guess you don't play this game enough to understand this is a buff.

Says the people that don't play those weapons there noob weapons right no one plays those.

[Nightbird]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

Says the people that don't play those weapons there noob weapons right no one plays those.

Yes skilled players currently don't use them because of their many flaws, and this revamp will remove most weaknesses, raise the skill bar, while not overpowering the weapon systems.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Nightbird, on 25 October 2020 - 07:18 PM, said:

Yes skilled players currently don't use them because of their many flaws, and this revamp will remove most weaknesses, raise the skill bar, while not overpowering the weapon systems.

Nah there fine you don't even play most of those weapon system your option of limited use on those weapons.

Edited by SirSmokes, 25 October 2020 - 07:20 PM.

[Nightbird]

SirSmokes, on 25 October 2020 - 07:20 PM, said:

Nah there fine you don't even play most of those weapon system your option of limited use on those weapons.

Which weapons? We can compare weapon stats.

I'm guessing you mean opinion rather than option.