199 replies to this topic

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lockheed_, on 09 November 2020 - 01:46 PM, said:

This is why I cannot get any on my buddies to play MWO. A friend of mine asked around his unit/clan and they are the right audience IMO and everyone was "dude this game looks dated AF" and even he himself said, I had fun in MWO but I am not willing to play a dated looking game like that anymore, if PGI comes up with something new I am happy to play stompy robots again.

If people only knew what dated really looked like

[jss78]

Lockheed_, on 09 November 2020 - 01:46 PM, said:

This is why I cannot get any on my buddies to play MWO. A friend of mine asked around his unit/clan and they are the right audience IMO and everyone was "dude this game looks dated AF" and even he himself said, I had fun in MWO but I am not willing to play a dated looking game like that anymore, if PGI comes up with something new I am happy to play stompy robots again.

Yeah I have very similar experiences. I've actually tried to bring some people to MWO over the years, and it's really hard UNLESS the people are already "onboard" as BT/MW fans. The engine looks so dated the game doesn't capture your imagination unless you already have your own "head canon" going on and filling in the blanks.

Also, I demonstrated the game in-person to a guy I play World of Warships with. He was interested enough but then saw the mechlab...

I quote him verbatim: "I don't think I'm autistic enough for this."

Edited by jss78, 09 November 2020 - 01:59 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Lockheed_, on 09 November 2020 - 01:46 PM, said:

This is why I cannot get any on my buddies to play MWO. A friend of mine asked around his unit/clan and they are the right audience IMO and everyone was "dude this game looks dated AF" and even he himself said, I had fun in MWO but I am not willing to play a dated looking game like that anymore, if PGI comes up with something new I am happy to play stompy robots again.

Lol you're friends' eyes would probably vomit if he saw me playing on all the lowest settings so I can eek out a fairly sustainable 22-26FPS on my Q6600 CPU. 5900x here I come! Gonna look like an entirely new game XD

[Mal Bolge]

Subscription fee for full access, but with free play with limited content. Secures a steady line of income, so the company are not dependent on mech packs and other stuff to get revenue. Design and development time can then be spent elsewhere.

Most important thing though is to BASE the game on BT, not try to follow BT. As an example, no superior clan tech which just causes a mess of balance problems and then ruining the game.

[R5D4]

The only real way to secure funding for an upgraded MWO2 game is through investors imo; Crowd funding isn't likely to go well with previous "Founders" such as myself still feeling bitter about how certain aspects of the game development played out (see Faction Play). Trouble is to get investors the game would need to show not only a viable healthy player base but a healthy monthly growth of said player base as well, which I just don't believe PGI can do at this point in time. Top that off with investors wanting to have "input" into the game development and the whole thing becomes rather unappealing.

I suppose If PGI were looking to get some initial capital from the player base again (like they did with the founders program previously) they could offer to sell existing customers a 'one-time-purchase' fee for converting your existing account directly over to MWO2 with all your mechbays, mechs, GXP, CBills, and Skills intact and ready to play.

Add to that a really enticing beginners package for anyone else just starting off that includes a set number of mechs and GXP and you might (maybe) get at least some capital to help offset the cost of development. Trouble of course being that no one in their right mind would buy into such a package unless development were well underway with a fixed release date coming up soon.

No, at the end of the day I think it will have to be PGI that makes the first move to secure outside funding and get some development on an MWO2 going before they completely lose their audience by not keeping the game up to par with other offerings out there.

Edited by R5D4, 09 November 2020 - 03:16 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Make a MWO2 without networking or matchmaking first, just private lobbies, then sell it as cash-infusion. Add Networking later.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Mal Nilsum, on 09 November 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Most important thing though is to BASE the game on BT, not try to follow BT. As an example, no superior clan tech which just causes a mess of balance problems and then ruining the game.

So pretty much abandon the people that originally supported MWO?

Edited by SirSmokes, 09 November 2020 - 03:41 PM.

[InvictusLee]

SirSmokes, on 09 November 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well if they ever add in the really small stuff like Battlearmor like Elementals that could be in the game

anamorphic battle armor ftw!

[R5D4]

Mal Nilsum, on 09 November 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Most important thing though is to BASE the game on BT, not try to follow BT. As an example, no superior clan tech which just causes a mess of balance problems and then ruining the game.

I always thought it was odd that PGI picked the Clan Invasion era to set MWO -- considering how even the tabletop people have themselves said that introducing the clans really unbalanced the gameplay and it took them another revision to the tabletop game afterwards to re-balance things again.

I mean from a narrative perspective I think the Clan Invasion is a really interesting point in the lore but honestly I wish they had either stuck with pre-clan tech or gone somewhere post battle of tukayyid like say 3062 so that either way you have better mech/weapon balance.

Edited by R5D4, 09 November 2020 - 06:05 PM.

[CanadianCyrus]

A MWO2 doesn't need to launch with all the mechs MWO currently has, in fact I would be fine with 10-12 mechs IF the gameplay mechanics were advanced much further than what we have with MWO. Things like mechs that straighten/lift their arms to clear low obstacles and be able to hit their target. Mixed combat where there's tanks and infantry on the field, hell equipping a command console that allows you to requisition one of the units on the field might actually be worth the 3 tons this time around. Maybe allow players who lose their mechs to enter the rest of the match with infantry/tanks with their value based on their matchscore when they died. Higher match scores allows heavier tanks or Protomechs to be brought in, at the lowest matchscore, just non-battlearmor infantry can be fielded.

Funding can be done with 3 methods...
1) Mech Packs
2) Customization content (colors, skins, decals, etc)
3) Season Pass

The Season Pass has a progression system you see often in other games where the season pass tracks progress and awards unlocks at every new tier, this could be new mechs and skins and anything from methods 1 & 2. You might only get to pick a single variant of your choice, but you still get a nice grab bag of content with the season pass lasting roughly 3 months before a new one arrives. Maybe even give people a large discount to buying content from the first two methods if they have the season pass to incentivize people to buy into all 3 methods at once. A $20-$30 season pass every 3 months that awards mechs/skins/colors/decals should entice even the stingiest of players to at least put down for a Season Pass at the minimum.

Allow people to customize the skins and allow bolt-ons of the infantry/tanks their fielding for even more options to entice more spending. More things to customize is more opportunity for people to want to spend money.

[Tarl Cabot]

R5D4, on 09 November 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

I always thought it was odd that PGI picked the Clan Invasion era to set MWO -- considering how even the tabletop people have themselves said that introducing the clans really unbalanced the gameplay and it took them another revision to the tabletop game afterwards to re-balance things again.

I mean from a narrative perspective I think the Clan Invasion is a really interesting point in the lore but honestly I wish they had either stuck with pre-clan tech or gone somewhere post battle of tukayyid like say 3062 so that either way you have better mech/weapon balance.

Clan mech packs provided cash influx, then 6 months later a skeleton form of Community Warfare (Faction Play) which PGI never fleshed out. PGI made a move to milk as much as they could from the player-base.

Understand also, other than the original MW, all other MW games were primarily IS VS Clan then Davion vs Steiner with Clan mechs. The only other versions were there the MPBTs, still set in 3025 timeframe, EGA 3025 (6 years), SVGA (Solaris only due to Succession Wars part falling thru w/3rd party - 5 years) and EA 3025 (a few months before EA pulled the rug on all non-EA created games).

What I dont understand was the work they put into Solaris features and the route they took with it. It eventually went down in flames, and whatever future plans they had for Solaris never game to fruition, worse that CW/FP. With that said, once PGI failed to continuing building up CW/FP, many of the active units disappeared because the Carrot on the Stick was no longer there, those units saw no future, it was gone. Units provided building blocks, starting places for new players to seek out, those that wanted more than just instant play.

[Darian DelFord]

Tarl Cabot, on 09 November 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

Clan mech packs provided cash influx, then 6 months later a skeleton form of Community Warfare (Faction Play) which PGI never fleshed out. PGI made a move to milk as much as they could from the player-base.

Understand also, other than the original MW, all other MW games were primarily IS VS Clan then Davion vs Steiner with Clan mechs. The only other versions were there the MPBTs, still set in 3025 timeframe, EGA 3025 (6 years), SVGA (Solaris only due to Succession Wars part falling thru w/3rd party - 5 years) and EA 3025 (a few months before EA pulled the rug on all non-EA created games).

What I dont understand was the work they put into Solaris features and the route they took with it. It eventually went down in flames, and whatever future plans they had for Solaris never game to fruition, worse that CW/FP. With that said, once PGI failed to continuing building up CW/FP, many of the active units disappeared because the Carrot on the Stick was no longer there, those units saw no future, it was gone. Units provided building blocks, starting places for new players to seek out, those that wanted more than just instant play.

Needs to be repeated

[DaZur]

I'd offer a free iteration similar what MWO is now with a limited number of mechs and customization and maps that are well-tested to be balanced enough for players to learn the nuances of the game and become proficient.

Full access to all mechs, full customization and all maps behind a monthly subscription paywall.

This allows new players to taste without being bent over a barrel, mitigates whale syndrome and creates a sustainable revenue stream.

That said, PGI needs to offer a lot more content that what they've given us over the past eight years to include something more than wash-rinse-and-repeat gameplay.

personally my biggest complaint though is lack of class benefit, the race to min/max and failure to take advantage of the sweeping space opera that BattleTech and MechWarrior is steeped in... But that's just the Mechdad grognard coming out in me.

[R5D4]

Tarl Cabot, on 09 November 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

Clan mech packs provided cash influx, then 6 months later a skeleton form of Community Warfare (Faction Play) which PGI never fleshed out. PGI made a move to milk as much as they could from the player-base.

Understand also, other than the original MW, all other MW games were primarily IS VS Clan then Davion vs Steiner with Clan mechs. The only other versions were there the MPBTs, still set in 3025 timeframe, EGA 3025 (6 years), SVGA (Solaris only due to Succession Wars part falling thru w/3rd party - 5 years) and EA 3025 (a few months before EA pulled the rug on all non-EA created games).

What I dont understand was the work they put into Solaris features and the route they took with it. It eventually went down in flames, and whatever future plans they had for Solaris never game to fruition, worse that CW/FP. With that said, once PGI failed to continuing building up CW/FP, many of the active units disappeared because the Carrot on the Stick was no longer there, those units saw no future, it was gone. Units provided building blocks, starting places for new players to seek out, those that wanted more than just instant play.

Ah yes I too remember the 'Gold Mechs' Fiasco but honestly from a game developer perspective picking the clan invasion really doesn't make sense to me given all the problems it introduces. Though I would say the same for introducing Solaris at a time when the game population was already showing signs of atrophying.

It's basically like saying "Hey you know how we have a shrinking population that's having difficulty balancing gameplay because too many people are split between QP and the various FP queues. Well we've solved that problem by adding a WHOLE 'NOTHER game mode to further split up the already splintered population! BRiLLANT!"

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Bud Crue, on 09 November 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

To put it bluntly, yes. Their history with the MWO supporters and players has not been good enough to suggest that that community would be willing to fund a promised future reboot of MWO. But who knows really? Maybe all those folks who per-ordered MW5 made them a ton of cash, and those same folks would ante up again for MWO2.

The last great PGI (dead born) Ideas was Transverse, thats split the Staffs, and ruined PGIs Reputation (Reddit Ban/Marketing License Lies) for all times



https://www.crowdfun...refund-process/

https://www.pcgamer....warrior-online/

https://ultimacodex....y-didnt-use-it/

https://www.reddit.c...verse_game_rip/


and MWO is DEAD, a Game without Programmers and IT Experts thats can make new basic Features, to bring new elements in has no Future ...Grandma has a old 69 Bel Air and no find Mechanics to repair it, so she can never drive it in the Future.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 10 November 2020 - 12:54 AM.

[jss78]

DaZur, on 09 November 2020 - 08:14 PM, said:

personally my biggest complaint though is lack of class benefit, the race to min/max and failure to take advantage of the sweeping space opera that BattleTech and MechWarrior is steeped in... But that's just the Mechdad grognard coming out in me.

I'm another mechdad and first entered the franchise with tabletop, but IMO with an "MWO2" the correct route would be to even more ruthlessly design it as a multiplayer shooter.

MWO was in a position where it needed to please a very heterogeneous audience. But now we have MW5 which serves as a conduit for the lore crowd, story telling etc.

This is an opportunity for an MWO2 to avoid a lot of the pitfalls and bad compromises.

Here's a list of heinous things I'd do with an MWO2:

• I'd DUMP the lore builds. Instead, make the stock build something that's in itself balanced competitive in a multiplayer FPS. Don't make it so that you can spend money on 'mech and it SUCKS unless you know that it's lore based and that you MUST tune it. This is a massive hurdle for bringing in people entirely new to the franchise -- don't repeat the mistake.
  
• I'd also DUMP most of the variants. The game does not need a Shadow Hawk 2H, 2D, 2D2 and a 5M if they all mount an autocannon on shoulder, lasers in arms and some missiles in torso/head. One will do. Focus your marketing/monetization efforts on that variant. There's a similar situation for most chassis.
  
• I WOULD add more in-universe immersion in places where it does NOT affect gameplay. Lore-based descriptions of the 'mechs, and through out in the visuals of mechbay and levels. Leverage the lore more to make the game feel in-universe, but don't break the game with it.

[Gagis]

Joshua McEvedy, on 09 November 2020 - 12:51 PM, said:

Hand the license back over to Microsoft so that it can be given to a better, more competent, more honest gaming company.

There is approximately a total of at most three honest gaming companies in the world, and they all have their hands, feet, teeth and laps full of their own interesting projects.

Plus there is pretty much no interest in MechWarrior games outside of PGI either way.

On topic, I'd actually happily grind for my favourite mechs all over again in a new game built on the same multiplayer combat premise as MWO. I don't think reset of inventories for a new launch is quite as scary as some might assume.

[The pessimistic optimist]

jss78, on 10 November 2020 - 07:06 AM, said:

I'm another mechdad and first entered the franchise with tabletop, but IMO with an "MWO2" the correct route would be to even more ruthlessly design it as a multiplayer shooter.

MWO was in a position where it needed to please a very heterogeneous audience. But now we have MW5 which serves as a conduit for the lore crowd, story telling etc.

This is an opportunity for an MWO2 to avoid a lot of the pitfalls and bad compromises.

Here's a list of heinous things I'd do with an MWO2:

• I'd DUMP the lore builds. Instead, make the stock build something that's in itself balanced competitive in a multiplayer FPS. Don't make it so that you can spend money on 'mech and it SUCKS unless you know that it's lore based and that you MUST tune it. This is a massive hurdle for bringing in people entirely new to the franchise -- don't repeat the mistake.
  
• I'd also DUMP most of the variants. The game does not need a Shadow Hawk 2H, 2D, 2D2 and a 5M if they all mount an autocannon on shoulder, lasers in arms and some missiles in torso/head. One will do. Focus your marketing/monetization efforts on that variant. There's a similar situation for most chassis.
  
• I WOULD add more in-universe immersion in places where it does NOT affect gameplay. Lore-based descriptions of the 'mechs, and through out in the visuals of mechbay and levels. Leverage the lore more to make the game feel in-universe, but don't break the game with it.

I like a lot of these idea's we don't need 1000 + mechs more is not always better for better game balance and bring back mech quirks to help balance out stock builds. But also do give us good custom build options too

Edited by SirSmokes, 10 November 2020 - 08:57 AM.

[Mal Bolge]

R5D4, on 09 November 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

I mean from a narrative perspective I think the Clan Invasion is a really interesting point in the lore but honestly I wish they had either stuck with pre-clan tech or gone somewhere post battle of tukayyid like say 3062 so that either way you have better mech/weapon balance.

The clan invasion as a narrative is pretty cool, I totally get that. It works in a PVM game were the clans are the enemies, or vice versa where the IS are the enemies. But in a PvP game where all things need to be equal, it just doesn't work. The only way would be to make all tech equal (different maybe, but equal), which then basically defeats the whole idea of the clans.

[Nesutizale]

Mal Nilsum, on 10 November 2020 - 11:57 AM, said:

The clan invasion as a narrative is pretty cool, I totally get that. It works in a PVM game were the clans are the enemies, or vice versa where the IS are the enemies. But in a PvP game where all things need to be equal, it just doesn't work. The only way would be to make all tech equal (different maybe, but equal), which then basically defeats the whole idea of the clans.

PvP games don't need to be equal on the basis "everything is the same". There are games where quite the oposite is the basic game mechanic. From "Rock, paper, scissor" to LoL who nearly perfected asymetrie for a while.
So no. Clans and IS don't have to be balanced around the same tech. Balance can also be had by haveing effective counters to a certain tactic, different team sizes... stuff like that.

Edited by Nesutizale, 10 November 2020 - 12:44 PM.