220 replies to this topic

[Agyar30]

FupDup, on 20 February 2021 - 09:08 AM, said:

From another thread:

Pessimistic Estimate:
Same durability as other variants, -10% Energy heat, -15% Energy cooldown, +20% PPC velocity (all types), -15% Missile cooldown

Optimistic Estimate:
Same durability as other variants, -15% Energy heat, -15% Energy cooldown, -15% Laser duration, +20% PPC velocity (all types), -15% Missile cooldown, +10% Energy range

Reality: +10% flamer range /yolo

[FupDup]

Thunderbolt estimate from another thread:

Okay, now for the Thunderbolt. This one will be a little harder because its quirks are less consistent, as well as having to account for PGI nerfing the quirks thanks to ECM and MASC.

For durability, all C-Bill variants have a measly +10 structure on the LT and RT. The Top Dog hero has a lot more, but I don't think they'll be generous enough to give that kind of durability to an ECM/MASC variant. I will go off of the C-bill variants for now.

Let's now loook at weapon quirks. The Top Dog will be excluded because it has much greater durability than the other variants and correspondingly lower weapon quirks.

TDR-5S: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +10%, Large Laser cooldown -10%, Laser duration -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

TDR-5SS: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +10%, Medium Pulse Laser Range +5%, Missile cooldown -15%

TDR-9S: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, ERPPC cooldown -5%, ERPPC heat -5%, ERPPC velocity +10%, Laser duration -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

TDR-9SE: Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Energy range +5%, Large Pulse Laser heat -5%, Missile cooldown -10%


Surprisingly they look very similar across all C-Bill variants. Energy cooldown and heat are always the same, and Missile cooldown is always at least 10%. However, PGI has a habit of nerfing quirks on IS mechs that can equip special items like MASC, ECM, and sometimes JJs. This Thunderbolt has all three at the same time so if it follows precedent then it could get smacked pretty hard by the nerf bat. My pessimistic and optimistic estimates will probably be more subject to being wrong than my Dragon estimates because of this.

Pessimistic Estimate:
+10 structure for LT and RT, Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Missile cooldown -10%

Optimistic Estimate:
+10% structure for LT and RT, Energy cooldown -10%, Energy heat -5%, Missile cooldown -15%, ERPPC heat -5%, Energy range +5%

I think the main takeaway here is that the Thunderbolt's quirks absolutely suck. Hard. Incredibly, unfathomably hard. Even the most Optimistic Estimate leaves us in a bad spot.

All C-Bill Thuds need a complete quirk rework to not be crap. Ideally they would be a bit more agility and lot more durability, making them tanky brawlers. If not then at least let them hit hard. Right now the C-Bill Thuds are just clumsy and clunky bricks that don't really impose much threat.


So basically, the Thunderbolt's hardpoints and specs look better on paper but the Dragon will have vastly better quirks based on precedent. Based on these analyses I think I'd rather use the Dragon honestly. Thunderbolts are just so bad other than the Top Dog.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2021 - 09:34 AM.

[FupDup]

As for builds, the Thunderbolt can really only do MRM40 + lasers.

TDR-10SE
Maybe you can try to fit Stealth Armor on, but be prepared to make sacrifices.


For the Dragon, here are my attempts to cobble something together:

DRG-1G
HPPC poker with some minor backup MPLs.

DRG-1G
Otherwise you might try something like 2 PPCs with 2 LLs, maybe Snubs or Large Pulses, I dunno? 4 hardpoints is just not enough.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2021 - 09:54 AM.

[Wine O]

Not impressed with the Dragon at all, the 1C has similar hardpoints but much better placement. Thunderbolt is more unique and that is it's appeal. Dragon should have been a mech that added something new or interesting rather than just a mix up of hardpoints already better placed on other variants. It will have to be heavily quirked to be a mech you actually see in game two weeks after it's release date.

Having said that, I bought the pack to support the game.

[Buenaventura]

jonomy, on 20 February 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

thanks for the booster pak; TDR is a great one to add ($20 for 2 bolts is a good deal), not familiar with the dragon so much. New mech will take patterns already purchased for thunderbolt?

If you have patterns unlocked for Thunderbolts or Dragons - i.e. no one shots - the new variants are also included. (No, I'm not from PGI, but it would be more work and bad PR to exclude them from working on the new variants.)

Kobzarrr, on 20 February 2021 - 08:44 AM, said:

facepalm , just one question - 20 $ for WHAT ?

4 mechs, 2 of them special variants with a +30% CBill bonus
4 mechbays to hold them, 2 of these are locked to the special variants which can't be sold
2 standing cockpit items
2 warhorns
themed decal
themed title
themed badge
themed bolt-on flag with badge on it for the above chassis types, so they'd also work on a DRG-5N or Top Dog hero
8M CBills
200 GSP

And if you order before mid May, you'll get some extra stuff:
200 GSP (so 400 GSP in total)
2 hanging items with a 5% CBill boost
2 sets of special bolt-ons for the special variants (at least I understand it that way that these are only usuable on the (S) variants in that pack)

[FupDup]

Buenaventura, on 20 February 2021 - 10:36 AM, said:

If you have patterns unlocked for Thunderbolts or Dragons - i.e. no one shots - the new variants are also included. (No, I'm not from PGI, but it would be more work and bad PR to exclude them from working on the new variants.)


4 mechs, 2 of them special variants with a +30% CBill bonus
4 mechbays to hold them, 2 of these are locked to the special variants which can't be sold
2 standing cockpit items
2 warhorns
themed decal
themed title
themed badge
themed bolt-on flag with badge on it for the above chassis types, so they'd also work on a DRG-5N or Top Dog hero
8M CBills
200 GSP

And if you order before mid May, you'll get some extra stuff:
200 GSP (so 400 GSP in total)
2 hanging items with a 5% CBill boost
2 sets of special bolt-ons for the special variants (at least I understand it that way that these are only usuable on the (S) variants in that pack)

Most of those items are filler though. The only stuff that really matters, at least to me, are the two (S) variants, the bolt-ons, the GSP, and the C-Bill cockpit items. Having regular non-boosted variants in there doesn't add any real value to the pack. For comparison, the current model for new mechs is that you get three entirely unique variants for $20. This is just two variants for $20 with some extra fluff.

Besides that, it would be nice to be able to buy them individually instead of both together.

[VonBruinwald]

Agyar30, on 20 February 2021 - 09:21 AM, said:

Reality: +10% flamer range /yolo

Irony is, the Gulags proposal wants to nerf flamers?!?!

[FupDup]

VonBruinwald, on 20 February 2021 - 10:57 AM, said:

Irony is, the Gulags proposal wants to nerf flamers?!?!

Yeah, kinda wonky. I'd understand a rework or power redistribution, but a straight-up nerf with no compensation is kinda iffy.

[selfish shellfish]

Stryker eh?

[AncientRaig]

Soo.... instead of a T-Bolt variant that might actually change up the playstyle by giving it a new weapon type, like the 5Sd, 5D, 9M or even 7SE if you still wanted a T-bolt with JJs and ECM, we get... the 10SE. Which is special because... it'll change up the stale build variety of the nearly dead chassis by... giving it masc and post-skill tree ECM. Oh boy. What a game changer. The Grand Dragon is at least something that can pretend to be unique, even if it doesn't have anywhere near enough energy hardpoints to be viable.

[Bowelhacker]

So is this little package a way for PGI to raise some money to pay for other things?

[Daeron Katz]

Nomad One, on 20 February 2021 - 02:03 AM, said:

Because most people who suggested adding the grand dragon also suggested inflating the number of energy hardpoints to 6 overall, so that you could have a primarily energy based dragon. Instead for whatever reason the extremely slot limited center torso missile hardpoint count got inflated to 2.

Instead we got a heap of nonsense that's once again completely reliant on quirks the customers won't see until release, so they can't make an educated purchase.

The early adopter rewards are still available for an entire month AFTER release. So it will release, you will see them, and then you can decide for yourself.

[FupDup]

Bowelhacker, on 20 February 2021 - 12:18 PM, said:

So is this little package a way for PGI to raise some money to pay for other things?

Seems like it, especially given that the swag that comes with the pack is called "Q1 supporter." This implies that we'll be getting three more packs like this, with one per quarter (probably two IS packs and two Clan, alternating faction each time).

[Daeron Katz]

Kobzarrr, on 20 February 2021 - 08:44 AM, said:

facepalm , just one question - 20 $ for WHAT ?

For the 400 GSP.

But in addition to that you get:

• 1 (S)pecial Thunderbolt 10SE variant with a 30% C-Bill boost
  
• 1 (S)pecial Grand Dragon 1G variant with a 30% C-Bill boost
  
• 1 Thunderbolt 10SE regular variant
  
• 1 Grand Dragon 1G regular variant
  
• 4 'Mech Bays
  
• 8 million C-Bills
  
• 2 Standing Cockpit Items
  
• 2 Warhorns
  
• 2 Hanging Cockpit Items w/ stackable 5% C-Bill boost
  
• Exclusive Bolt-ons for the (S)pecial variant 'Mechs
  
• and Themed Decal, Title, Badge, Bolt-on Flag

[Will9761]

Daeron will it be possible to see the Grand Dragon - 7K somewhere in the future? Maybe as a Loyalty variant at some point?

[Nesutizale]

@Daeron
I think that person just wants to express that he isn't impressed with the deal that is offered and knows pretty well what is in the pack.

I think its for everyone personaly to decide if its a deal they want to take or not.

[Flanking Boy]

Bolo Atari, on 19 February 2021 - 07:41 PM, said:

At that price, yes. Done.

same here

3RoyalStar1, on 19 February 2021 - 08:04 PM, said:

When I preorder it when do I get my stuff?

58 Days 19 Hours 52 Mins
or the 20 of april 2021

[Daeron Katz]

Will9761, on 20 February 2021 - 01:00 PM, said:

Daeron will it be possible to see the Grand Dragon - 7K somewhere in the future? Maybe as a Loyalty variant at some point?

Yeah absolutely possible.

[Daeron Katz]

Nesutizale, on 20 February 2021 - 01:04 PM, said:

@Daeron
I think that person just wants to express that he isn't impressed with the deal that is offered and knows pretty well what is in the pack.

I think its for everyone personaly to decide if its a deal they want to take or not.

Yeah I know, but since he didn't express that clearly, I took it as an opportunity to express what I think about the pack.

[Will9761]

Daeron Katz, on 20 February 2021 - 01:14 PM, said:

Yeah absolutely possible.

Thank you Daeron. I ask this because I know there are many people (including myself) who may not like the Grand Dragon 1G, so having the 7K variant as a Loyality Mech would be a nice incentive to buy the Stryker Pack or any other future mech pack of 2021.

Edited by Will9761, 20 February 2021 - 01:21 PM.