801 replies to this topic

[Fractis Zero]

With all the velocity changes are we looking at point and click play rather then aim and lead?

[LordNothing]

while i like a good poo stirring more than anyone, these are completely radical changes.

ppcs are going to be a whole new ball game now. no more cerppc brawling. but with the massage damage increases that might not matter. expect to see more ranged ppc camping. the lppc looks even more useless, especially since it now has the longest cd. i think if you are going to have a dps ppc, the lppc makes the most sense. making the snub hotter is also kind of a mistake, why not keep the heat where it is, and make the extra 2 damage splash. its a mixup though and i for one will be playing a lot of ppc boats to see how this stands. though i hate being relegated to second line camp duty, im more of an aggressive ppc user.

the lgr has seen its only use case disappear. i think upping the charge limit to 3 would have been a better fix without drastically changing damage and cd values and would have provided more use cases (like tripple lgauss boats). this thing is going to remain in the shadow of the still good ac10.

ac velocities have been a bit slow, so buffs are welcome. they dont address the weaknesses of 5 and 20 class guns compared to the others. 5s needed a little more dps at the low end, and then temper that back on boats with some ghost heat, either higher penalties or kicking in sooner. the 20s on the other hand might do significantly better with the small velocity buff though i think id give it 50-100 more than that.

mrm10 spread reduction kind of gives it a niche. il be taking my infinite missiles archer out for a spin after the patch. its a stupid build, but with more accuracy i think i can make it work. i didnt see the mrms as a whole as something that needed buffs, even if its only missile health buffs. i think this is more of an indirect nerf to ams payouts than anything. mrms can usually over saturate ams, but by making it harder to kill the missiles, you are hurting ams users more than you help mrm users. that might be intentional.

and now to the masc. while i think the changes are fine at the lower end where mechs are already pretty agile, and only need a speed boost. i feel like the extra mobility helped fatter mechs like the exe be more than wasted space. if you understood the mech and used its masc/jump jets as agility boosters, you might gain a bit of usefulness out of it. even then it was already on the unmeta side of things and this gimps its only redeeming factor. you may have just killed the mech for me, unless it receives quirks or buffs to its base stats to grant back some of the removed agility. also do something to increase masc compatibility with more variants, perhaps make it an upgrade like artemis. also can we keep the masc gauge on the screen, or some hud indication that it is installed? i often forget that it is installed in a mech and neglect to use it.

we will see how this helps the game. but i think that mistakes were made here. not big, and they need real world data to back up that assertion. if you let it ride for a bit at least it will stir the poo.

wrt trials. idk what you are doing with the jenner iic, are you trying to get new players killed? its already a glass cannon and you took away its cannon. hell bringer looks like a noob cooker. this is why i say pure meta mechs are bad for new players, as they havent learned things like heat discipline and torso twisting. which brings me to all the asymetrical builds are hard for new players because all their eggs are in one basket. also check the armor on the grasshopper 5h, it looks like they got way too much in the rear.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 March 2021 - 10:11 PM.

[IndgoMan]

Hiten Bongz, on 15 March 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:

Please revert the MASC mobility nerfs, that was just unnecessary.

Yeah What he said !!!!!!!

[GweNTLeR]

I've done some math and came to a conclusion that LGR is not THAT nerfed.
LGR now have 37.5% more damage per ammo tonn due to ammo count staying the same.
Considering it had pretty high value already, it is now enough to have 1.25 ton per LGR.
You can use freed tonnage to put something useful (like, more lasers or bigger engine).
The effective DPS of LGR was limited by charge mechanic previously, so now being limited by cooldown instead is not really that much of a deal.
Basically, if we take 0.75s charge +0.5s average player reaction time (to lift finger after charge), the DPS reduction would be ~19%:
(11/8)*(2.6+0.75+0.5)/(5.25+0.75+0.5)=0.814.
With quirks and difference will become even more smaller, (for example, with 12% cd reduction from skills and 10% reduction from quirks (11/8)*(2.6*0.78+0.75+0.5)/(5.25*0.78+0.75+0.5) = 0.843, or ~16% difference).
But the story doesn't end with maximum DPS. Higher alpha means better effective DPS, meaning you would rather wait abit now(for enemy to stop torsotwisting) and shoot CT instead of just randomly spamming shots everywhere.
In my opinion, it means that there would be more builds with 2*LGR as a secondary weapon. But quad LGR builds are pretty much ****** up now.

[The6thMessenger]

InnerSphereNews, on 15 March 2021 - 10:41 AM, said:

Please make your posts respectful and useful, and not just "Do everything the Gulag says" or similar sentiments. We have a lot of appreciation for the efforts of groups like the Gulag, and while we will be relying on them even more now as we begin to move deeper into the weeds of MWO development, we have many factors to take into consideration when making significant changes to the game.

Jesus ******* christ, the sensitivity of the balancing overlords. Is the factor your self-esteem?

Let's get this straight, the Gulag knew the game better, they knew what they were doing with the balance. With what the numbers put forward, it looks like you don't. We are pushing for the Gulag, because they know what they are doing, and your staff has consistently proven us that your staff barely do.

The fact that you get PPC cooldowns wrong, they are 4s, not 4.5s, and have you based your changes on a spreadsheet with wrong information, I shudder to think what else you have in store for us.

Don't get me wrong, I do have criticisms levied with the Gulag's balance, and there are some things I would like to see that is maybe contrary or not where the Gulag ended up. But after all that is said and done, their values are overwhelmingly good for the game.

If you really care about MWO, you'd actually just do the Gulag. But it looks like you don't.

GweNTLeR, on 15 March 2021 - 10:05 PM, said:

In my opinion, it means that there would be more builds with 2*LGR as a secondary weapon. But quad LGR builds are pretty much ****** up now.

24-Tons of investment shouldn't be secondary weapons. At this point, you might as well AC10 for the DPS.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 March 2021 - 05:20 AM.

[GweNTLeR]

The6thMessenger, on 15 March 2021 - 10:05 PM, said:

24-Tons of investment shouldn't be secondary weapons. At this point, you might as well AC10 for the DPS.

Indeed you must take AC10 for DPS . Because LGR was never about DPS. It was about long range

[The6thMessenger]

GweNTLeR, on 15 March 2021 - 10:17 PM, said:

Indeed you must take AC10 for DPS . Because LGR was never about DPS. It was about long range

Yeah, but the game is about doing damage. The LGR's piss-poor DPS isn't helping, it's not even that good before.

You are honestly better off with PPCs, the heat are manageable anyways and it's a fight of attrition. With the SHD-2K 2x ERPPC + 17 DHS, planned heat of 14.5 with 6s CD with 3.74 heat dissipation is actually at -22.44, that means with 2x ERPPC you net only 6.56 heat/shot, which is honestly manageable, you actually have +200 m/s speed over the LGR as well that makes it better at the range where LGR is supposed to shine.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 15 March 2021 - 10:36 PM.

[Laser Kiwi]

And fix heat spike, when you gonna do that, light engines, lose that torso riding heat, you may as well have taken xl

[Laser Kiwi]

next time they ask for feedback, maybe we should boycott feedback, just say absolutely nothing. The twittering of birds, i doubt we could do that

[The6thMessenger]

Laser Kiwi, on 15 March 2021 - 10:51 PM, said:

next time they ask for feedback, maybe we should boycott feedback, just say absolutely nothing. The twittering of birds, i doubt we could do that

We should just boycott the game, like when the patches drop.

That will make them listen.

[tee5]

PGI's thought process has always been.


- Ask for opinion of the players. In a painstakingly monthly process.
- Totally ignored all suggestions.
- Did their own stuff, they already had in mind, before they even asked the community for help.
- It turned out, their thing was crap. And they needed to fix their solution over and over again. After 2 or 3 times of fixing it was decent.


But let's take some time and use this thread to look back at some ot the best and biggest screwups of PGI's History:

-Russ said in an interview, "We are a MechSim and there will be never something like 3rd-person view in this game.
- some time later, PGI introduces 3rd person view into MWO, to get some console kiddies, who can only play with controler.
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-Nobody asked for a new Mini-Map, PGI introduces plans for a new Mini-Map. PGI never tested their new Mini-Map, directly injected it into the game, would have been a good idea, BECAUSE the new Mini-Map is not linked to the Movement of your mechs, its not moving with your mech. It was like an old WW2 paper map. It took them like 3 or 4 weeks to fix it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Russ says Live on Mech-Con its on video, we are getting rid of Modules, there will be coming a new SKILLTREE. But it takes like 1 year to develop. All Modules you will be buying from this date XX.XX.XXXX, when the new SKILLTREE is introduced, you will get your c-bills back.

I was buying Modules like crazy from this specific Date on, that he mentioned. because hey he said it live on MechCon he can't back out of this. I bought the Modules just to have fun, don't have to change them from mech to mech. Because I would get the C-bills back in a couple of months. Before the introduction of SKILLTREE Russ announces, he has changed his mind, and now you will only get back some STUPID GPS, at this time I had no use for GSP, but I would have needed the c-bills. I did not even contact support.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solaris 7: They announce Solaris 7 big on MechCon, Big Hype. They have over one year of development for Solaris 7.
They even rebranded the whole game for Solaris 7. Solaris 7 is injected into game, some bugs, some things not well thought out. But turns out it is a hard unvorgiving environment, only for niche players, for highly competitve players, Mech Dads get slaughtered in the millions, Mech Dads not willing to adapt, "why am I not winning in my lrm-10, 1 x MedLaser, 1 x Ac 10 mech?" Need for highly specialized Mechs and SKILLTREES. Playerbase is declining and declining......
___________________________________________

Then the thing with Faction Play, they programmed over a year for it, did some testservers, but never clearly communicated, that it would completly supstitute the old Faction Play, I thought it would be just for Special Events. They injected it into the game, turns out, it was not good, couple of things were not well thought out, Wage of War System always stuck on some game Modes, so it was like 6 hours only conquest, 6 hours only domination. Siege could almost never be reached. So in 4 weeks of Faction Play maybe only one time you were able to play Siege. It took them 3 or 4 or 7 months to fix it back into a state, where Faction Play was enjoyable again. And they had one year or more of development for this total ********.
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In the meantime I learned to ignore all promises PGI makes and just play the game that is currently available.
Man it saves you so much headaches.

And again we reached a point where PGI, screwed up again big time.



I will not look for all grammatic errors and spelling errors in this text. Takes too much time and I am very very bored and lazy. PGI-style gnihihihhihi

Oh and before you delete this text PGI. This is all true. And if you would have programmed in your past and now something good and not always utter bad bad things, nobody would have need to write such things.

[GweNTLeR]

The6thMessenger, on 15 March 2021 - 10:22 PM, said:

Yeah, but the game is about doing damage. The LGR's piss-poor DPS isn't helping, it's not even that good before.

You are honestly better off with PPCs, the heat are manageable anyways and it's a fight of attrition. With the SHD-2K 2x ERPPC + 17 DHS, planned heat of 14.5 with 6s CD with 3.74 heat dissipation is actually at -22.44, that means with 2x ERPPC you net only 6.56 heat/shot, which is honestly manageable, you actually have +200 m/s speed over the LGR as well that makes it better at the range where LGR is supposed to shine.

I'd say again that it should now be used as a secondary weapon. They produce virtually no heat, so Gauss rifles (except for HGR and stealth bulds) are mostly used with energy weapons, such as medium lasers or large lasers. They are NOT used alone. Some of the most popular and effective builds with 2*GR are:
WHM-6R with (ER)ML;
Deathstrike with 6ERML;
The new LGR could be effectively used with ERML and (ER)LL.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 15 March 2021 - 11:03 PM.

[Albert C]

The map changes and new mrm spread are good. But I am not a fan of ppc gauss or masc changes tho. if you wanted to buff light gauss, just give it slightly more damage like +1 and reduce ammo per ton a little bit. As for the masc changes, although I never use them but I could imagine some mechs whose survivalbility depends on acceleration might have a very bad time. You can reduce the heat of gauss ppc weapons if you really wanted to buff them. Like removing all gauss heat.

[LordNothing]

Fractis Zero, on 15 March 2021 - 09:48 PM, said:

With all the velocity changes are we looking at point and click play rather then aim and lead?

even at 2k you have to lead. a lot can happen in half a second.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Knowing that the weapons are seeing a rabalance in pieces, I am VERY curious to see what gets changed in the next balance pass now.

[Voice of Kerensky]

I thought the game had already hit rock bottom. But then they knocked from below.

[Elizander]

You should run an event that requires players to deal x damage with each specific weapon that was changed. Reward them with mc to make it worth their while to live test the changes. You can also make an event where people can run one of the new trial mechs (not all of them, let them pick) so that your feedback is better.

[tee5]

Oh forgot one:

PGI makes big World Championship Tournament, jackpot is 100 000 dollar, or something like that. Many people approach PGI, hey we can help you organizing the Tournament we have expirience with MRBC or this and that. PGI rejects all help, PGI - style.

The first application had only fields for names. Allowed tonnage you could use was like 1-1000 tons. They had thought of no game-mode, no rules how to get the money etc, Later on they developed a system where everyone needed to play vs everyone else and there had to be a referre watching the game. There where over 400 teams who wanted to participate. It was a very, very, complicated and long way. Many teams quitted out of the 1st MWO World Championships, because it took to long. All the referees where volunters from the community, many of them where burned out at the end. And this was the 1st World Championship organized by PGI, very poorly organized, for such a big Jackpot.

[Elizander]

LordNothing, on 15 March 2021 - 11:08 PM, said:

even at 2k you have to lead. a lot can happen in half a second.

People talking like they never miss long-range shots with gauss vs moving targets

[The6thMessenger]

GweNTLeR, on 15 March 2021 - 11:00 PM, said:

I'd say again that it should now be used as a secondary weapon. They produce virtually no heat, so Gauss rifles (except for HGR and stealth bulds) are mostly used with energy weapons, such as medium lasers or large lasers. They are NOT used alone. Some of the most popular and effective builds with 2*GR are:
WHM-6R with (ER)ML;
Deathstrike with 6ERML;
The new LGR could be effectively used with ERML and (ER)LL.

Waste of 24 tons.