801 replies to this topic

[Mechdocdie]

This is just to add my vote to the chorus of PLEASE DON'T DO THIS TO OUR MECHS! I am not much of a sniper - eyes just aren't up to it at my age - but as annoying as I sometimes find those little ********s on the outskirts I have never found them overpowered or thought they needed nerfing.

I have been OK with the weapon balance for the last 18 months, and frankly I think we have all got used to the status quo. I wouldn't mind seeing small pulse lasers get a bit of a buff but I have gotten used to that. But nerfing a group of niche weapons, esp. LGR and LPPC, seems to just narrow rather the expand the play style options. No surprise everyones p****d off!

And why nerf MASC? The challenge of swatting that last remaining Flea or Shadowcat is sometimes the most fun part of a match, almost as much as being that last Flea or Shadowcat. (Poor Shadowcats - double nerfed). How could anyone think the mobility of a Cherbi needed nerfing? or that of a Black Lanner? or a Hellfire?

Those of us who love this game will adjust but it just seems like unnecessary grief. Fix up the maps, bring us new content but please stop assassinating our mechs.

[sinba1ew]

Quote

Suggestion:
Why not to try something actually "NEW":
https://www.sarna.ne...i/PPC_Capacitor
Well you know... to spice things up. And you will get your chance to justify increasing the cooldown time, while giving IS PPCs more valuable options.

I'm with You... would actually give both sides some nice toys....
Clan would get turbosnipes with high damage per shot
while IS could get some fun with light PPC used instead of regular ones...

or maybe it could be done so, that IS can mount up to 2 & clan can mount up to 1
of these... that would actually make it quite fun with massive snipe wars

<<I'm going a little crazy with mounting 2 of them on 1 mech, cause that would add 10 heat to each shot, but on the other hand.... welll it'd be interesting at least

[East Indy]

So, in the patch notes there's a reference to the player group who submitted a proposal, and have done so in the past -- the message being, don't tell us how to design.

In case we get lost in the details: a community manager was hired with great fanfare and did a goodwill tour, a plan supporting player wants and needs was presented, the first phase of that plan opened a couple dozen threads inviting player feedback --

-- and once again, those responsible for game mechanics are implementing something no one had widely talked about, let alone ask for as organized representatives or even popular interest. It's what they had in their head, and on appearances, what they were going to do all along.

Not a good look.

[Guile Votoms]

[Agyar30]

I have watched what Daeron had to say on NGNG. It was atleast something what gives hope. My only question after that is: Why are you pushing out something radical when you have basic issues with every aspect of the game due to lack of resources and unseen blockers in development. My guess you had no idea how radical this weapon pass is. It basically kills off weapon systems.

I am a professional chess player we have a quote when chess players faceing problems in their positions and while they try to solve them they get into a bigger mess. It is a common human mistake. We say he saw he gonna get hit by a bicycle so he jumped under the train. That is what you have done here. Stay calm if you have problems and no to little resources to solve them. Do not push out something like this just because you promised a weapon pass earlier.

This is just a friendly tip to make your life and job easier. I hope the game gets better i am not a pgi hater. I am happy when you do good things and dissapointed when you do the opposite that is all.

[DAEDALOS513]

East Indy, on 16 March 2021 - 04:11 AM, said:

So, in the patch notes there's a reference to the player group who submitted a proposal, and have done so in the past -- the message being, don't tell us how to design.

In case we get lost in the details: a community manager was hired with great fanfare and did a goodwill tour, a plan supporting player wants and needs was presented, the first phase of that plan opened a couple dozen threads inviting player feedback --

-- and once again, those responsible for game mechanics are implementing something no one had widely talked about, let alone ask for as organized representatives or even popular interest. It's what they had in their head, and on appearances, what they were going to do all along.

Not a good look.

It really makes daeron's job a joke.. sad

[Far Reach]

Why do I get the feeling we will NOT be allowed to converse with this unknowable and untouchable god of balance?
His demarcations are sacrosanct!! Any impudence will be scorned!! NONE may see his true face!!

That NGNG podcast confirms it. They intend to push this **** through the grate. Logic, reason and honor be damned.
Time to uninstall.

This shyster business is why I don't live in B.C. anymore, a whole province of pretenders.
B.C. fits PGI like a glove.

[Ch_R0me]

Windscape, on 15 March 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

PPC's are now less useful as a whole (lower DPS).

PPC's will only find use in fringe applications (AWS, WHK, GHR).

LPPC and LGR are useless due to cooldown.

Snubs are far too hot to be used ever.

Masc no longer rewards skilled movement.

Soup will consist of more DPS meta than there already is, making Nascar's harder and laps faster.

Never let Chris touch weapons balance, please.

This.
Especially about MASC; I'll always advocate about adding mines (even as a Thunder LRM barrage consumable) to counter NASCARing + reward skillful maneuvering. Now with such hit to it would make the whole idea less viable.

[Firewolfslayer]

welp rip my ppc basp and plans to build more ppc builds, rip gauss except for hgauss,
velocity increase was unneeded, players who learned the velocity will have to learn again, will now be easier for noobs
mrms didn't need a hp buff lol
mascs - just put bigger engine in now lmao poor executioner/spirit bear/ctf hero
snubs - i-i-I just don't even know what to say except WHY, snubs were already pretty bad but now they're just unusable, too hot, low range, low damage
ppc cooldown increase - kills a lot of builds now
I guess more pinpoint damage is cool but the splash damage increase on cerppcs is USELESS
was hoping to see buffs to streak lock-ons
buffs to direct-firing missiles
lams heat nerf
just really disappointed so far except for hgauss hp buff (except its pretty damn insignificant)
the damage increase to ppcs is just not high enough to warrant the heat+cooldown increases

edit: read some more patch notes

Edited by Firewolfslayer, 16 March 2021 - 05:06 AM.

[MarsThunder]

> as well as promote different overall battlefield roles
btw... what do you think about REALLY ADDING ROLES to game mechanics?
A role should be selected for a mech in mechlab and grants positive and negative quirks and traits.
Like following:

BRAWLER:
+ front armor
- speed
- no weapons with range > 400m allowed

SNIPER:
- no weapons with range < 700m allowed
- no any armor (lol)

SCOUT:
+ speed
- limited weapon choice

Or may be this was discussed already?

PS. There are just quick-written example sets above, no point to blame me for them ;-)

Edited by MarsThunder, 16 March 2021 - 05:11 AM.

[Halian]

Cooldown to me is one of the biggest factors influencing my choice of weapons, not damage.

I hardly ever use PPCs of any kind and with this patch I will never touch them again.

[MarsThunder]

OMG.. just finished reading patch description... revert all those weapon and especially MASC tweaks back ASAP.

[mcmatthew]

I think people are being way too quick to call the gauss and ppc changes bad. For an example of how it could be good I’ll compare the new light gauss to the regular gauss before the patch
The light gauss is 80% the weight and 71% the slots of the normal gauss. It does 73% of the damage, has a 5% longer cool down, has 123% the range, and has 183% the ammo efficiency. If you look at it that way the new light gauss seems broken, you get a similar damage to weight/slots ratio as the normal gauss and get the great range and ammo efficiency as a bonus.

Also I thought the Lgauss charged a little faster but I’m not sure

Edited by mcmatthew, 16 March 2021 - 05:31 AM.

[Firewolfslayer]

"reinforcing of role"

ah yes totally didn't just murder gauss+ppcs
slow clap

[Agyar30]

mcmatthew, on 16 March 2021 - 05:24 AM, said:

I think people are being way to quick to call the gauss and ppc changes bad. For an example of how it could be good I’ll compare the new light gauss to the regular gauss before the patch
The light gauss is 80% the weight and 71% the slots of the normal gauss. It does 73% of the damage, has a 5% longer cool down, has 123% the range, and has 183% the ammo efficiency. If you look at it that way the new light gauss seems broken, you get a similar damage to weight/slots ratio as the normal gauss and get the great range and ammo efficiency as a bonus.

Also I thought the Lgauss charged a little faster but I’m not sure

Fun fact: You are comparing 2 terrible weapon systems now. A sniper gauss with no range and a sniper lgauss with no dps. Like two cars one without an engine and another without wheels.

[C337Skymaster]

Martaloc, on 15 March 2021 - 04:56 PM, said:

MWO is the Table Top itself . The mechs ,wepons ,slots, weaponsdamage and heat and everything is from the TT.
Only the burntimes and weapon cooldowns are not set in stone.
The problem is that PGI messed everything up in the name of balance and now they dont know what to do.
With every patch the game is much worse and unbalanced.
Go play Fortnite ,there is youre place .
We vant diversity in the game not only one or two metabuilds with only one or two weapontypes .

Technically, TT turns take place every 10 seconds, and weapons fire once per turn (unless otherwise specified: see RACs and UACs), so there's your cooldown. Apart from that, though, I completely agree. Personally, I feel as though we've gone so far down the rabbit hole that it might be worthwhile to hit the giant "reset" button, revert everything back to TT values, and start this journey over again. There have been good changes and bad ones, and there's no way to separate the two without starting completely over, at this point.

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

That's weird, I thought it was an online PvP videogame.

It is, but it takes its starting values from the TT source material, and some of those values are deeply ingrained in the systems. For example, an AC/20 is called a "20"-size because it does 20 damage. An LRM 20 is a "20"-size because it fires 20 missiles, which do 1 damage apiece. SRMs do double. ATMs are just weird (though not in a way PGI seems able to accurately simulate).

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

Yes, it's part of the wider Mechwarrior/BT franchise which spans a number of different iterations of multiple platforms.

True, and apart from MW4, they have all maintained a very close relationship with the TT source material from which they're all derived. This honors expectations about how each weapon functions and what builds work in what environments and situations. As soon as you throw TT down the toilet, suddenly you can have 10 dmg 15 heat Gauss Rifles, and that's just weird for everybody.

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

It's weird that thinking "An online PvP videogame should be built as such" is an exceptional opinion.

It's not. But different online PvP videogames are built differently based on their unique properties. In the case of MWO, its unique property is that it is based on a turn-based paper-and-dice game, which was in turn developed in an attempt to closely simulate a real-life battle within the constraints of its medium. MWO removes those constraints by simulating those battles in real-time, but is missing several key elements of the source material, namely that aiming is way too easy, and all of the weapons converge on the same point on a target.

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

Sounds like a you problem. I'm more than happy running a UAC2 Mist Lynx and having a positive effect on my team's win

It becomes your problem, too, when there are only 23 players left who enjoy MWO...

bad builds bob, on 15 March 2021 - 05:00 PM, said:

Sticking to tabletop values brings nothing good to an Online PvP videogame.

This isn't necessarily true. You can stick to TT values and tweak other settings within the game to make it an enjoyable experience. Frankly, a Meta will emerge regardless of the values programmed into the game. There are certain weapons which will be useless, and others which will be OP. All "balancing" ever does is change which weapons are on top of the pile. Periodic "balancing" keeps the Meta rotating and changing, and forces players to change their playstyle and builds on a semi-regular basis. If we're going to settle on a specific Meta and call it "balanced", then the original TT values are as good a set of numbers as any, and we'll all just get used to the meta it creates.

[The pessimistic optimist]

C337Skymaster, on 16 March 2021 - 05:32 AM, said:

"reset" button"

That would be fun for nostalgia and people would also see how broke clan tech is with out quirks Reset to Clan wave one would be funny and eye opener for some

Edited by SirSmokes, 16 March 2021 - 05:44 AM.

[letir]

The main problems of PPC in the QP was cooldown and heat, and you nerfed both of these parameters. Now it's even more fringe sniper weapon for organized peeks and such.

[RockmachinE]

mcmatthew, on 16 March 2021 - 05:24 AM, said:

I think people are being way too quick to call the gauss and ppc changes bad. For an example of how it could be good I’ll compare the new light gauss to the regular gauss before the patch
The light gauss is 80% the weight and 71% the slots of the normal gauss. It does 73% of the damage, has a 5% longer cool down, has 123% the range, and has 183% the ammo efficiency. If you look at it that way the new light gauss seems broken, you get a similar damage to weight/slots ratio as the normal gauss and get the great range and ammo efficiency as a bonus.

Also I thought the Lgauss charged a little faster but I’m not sure

Somehow I get the feeling you don't understand how much 5 or especially 7 seconds is in MWO, how hot PPCs and ERPPCs already were, just how much this will impact certain builds, but more importantly how much it will cement and affirm the current nascar playstyle that most people loathe.

You don't want to be stuck dead in the water for 7 seconds. Its a waste of tonnage to put a weapon system like that on a mech.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 16 March 2021 - 06:02 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Louis Brofist, on 16 March 2021 - 06:02 AM, said:

Somehow I get the feeling you don't understand how much 5 or especially 7 seconds is in MWO, how hot PPCs and ERPPCs already were, just how much this will impact certain builds, but more importantly how much it will cement and affirm the current nascar playstyle that most people loathe.

You don't want to be stuck dead in the water for 7 seconds. Its a waste of tonnage to put a weapon system like that on a mech.

So what you are saying 3xCerPPC build is no long jack of all trades?