801 replies to this topic

[TTB]

Lots of changes in here. Some good, some very likely bad and (looking through this thread) not really understood or supported by wide parts of the community. My chainsaws falling off again is logic not understandable to me. You had a good solution with global client-side on/off, why also add a haphazard adaptation on top of it?
If you're interested in what I think of this patch, the weapon changes and the new trial mechs in more detail, then check out the VOD here.

[MarsThunder]

sinba1ew, on 16 March 2021 - 08:19 AM, said:

<...> but a lot of mechs were using it for turn speed & acceleration mostly.... I had it on some mechs mostly to let me turn mech faster, so I can change direction....

Agreed. Shadow Cat specifically will suffer a lot from acceleration tweak and Executor - from turn speed tweak.

[Der Kopfsammler]

The much needed lighting changes and intro sound reduction really made me happy! Finally, some propper fixes!

[Gearz]

Why mess with PPCs??? love the map changes, but the ppc nerf was unneeded.

[The Paleo King]

So let's get this straight.

*PPCs are heatmaxed and nerfed for DPS

*Gauss is hotter and is nerfed for DPS

*Clan tech remains nerfed including the heatsinks.

*PPC "minimum range" nerf is still with us. Not that hot plasma ever becomes harmless at close range in any known school of real-world physics.

*the only thing not nerfed overall is heat spikes, so we will have a lot of formerly well-balanced mech builds being watered down into paper tigers as far as DPS, and shutting down over and over again like sitting ducks.

*Several PPC-based mechs like Warhammer IIC will be nearly un-usable in anything even remotely resembling a canon variant.

*PPCs will probably go extinct as far as mixed loadout mechs go, and be replaced with lasers. As if they weren't headed that way already...

*skill points for heat reduction and cooldown time were not amplified in the patch and thus are now nearly useless.

*not much of an explanation as to who (if anyone) was consulted before making these changes.


Who made these decisions, and are any of them even remotely based on Canon Battletech rules?
Can we please go back to something resembling canon rules instead of turning every mech into a pre-lostech Daboku?

Edited by The Paleo King, 16 March 2021 - 10:36 AM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Servers up, going in to check on lppc and LGR...

No change on the LGR. Thank you for listening good persons.

No changes in weapons I can see, it appears they are holding for now.

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 16 March 2021 - 10:35 AM.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Lockheed_, on 16 March 2021 - 10:27 AM, said:

So the patch is going live and the COMMUNITY MANAGER has not made any comments on 18 pages of shitstorm?

He answered a lot of things in detail on yesterdays NGNGtv-stream and he deserves Kudos for showing up there (check from 5:35 and past).

[Dregian Bloodwrath]

there is alot of weapon changes in here that no one asked for .. not to sound un grateful we are all very happy that mwo is getting love again but what happened to listening to the comunity?? ie why the masc changes no one asked for that and now ppcs are even hotter than they were now im going to go through all my mechs and remove the ppcs

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Dregian Bloodwrath, on 16 March 2021 - 10:42 AM, said:

there is alot of weapon changes in here that no one asked for .. not to sound un grateful we are all very happy that mwo is getting love again but what happened to listening to the comunity?? ie why the masc changes no one asked for that and now ppcs are even hotter than they were now im going to go through all my mechs and remove the ppcs

Please listen to what Daeron said on the latest NGNGtv-cast (link some posts back) from 5:35 and ongoing. Sheds a lot of light on what has happened and why it was bad.

[3RoyalStar1]

So what about the mechs that will be worthless with these changes like Thanatos 5s, all the 4 ppc mech just forgetting about them?? Look I’m not complaining PGI and thank you guys for finally updating this game! Just please make these mechs just as good as they were somehow please

[Vladimir Jorgensson]

Yep. Executioner now feels like a fat turtle. RIP my favorite assault.

[Ahh Screw it - WATCH THIS]

LOL -

ANYONE playing PPCs or gauss now will have to be so far back that the team will hate them.

You better not miss. So once again, to "fix" a weapon system, they make it harder for all but the top 1% to use.

No thanks.

[zudukai]

PTS doesn't make any sense when PGI makes arbitrary decisions based on smoke, PGI needs to be held accountable and chris needs to be held accountable.

EG7 provides resources that PGI flat out refuses to mobilize on MWO and on top of that PGI proves again and again they don't care about what we want for balance.

i hate this worthless change when the majority of the changes didn't need to happen at all, it's a waste of time and a squander of resources.

i don't see PGI getting any part of the EG7 "success" bonus if they keep on this track.

[Vlad Ward]

I like the PPC changes in general.

Snub Nose makes no sense to me at all, though. It's a PPCINO. The cooldown change desynced it from the AC/20 which kills its utility. It was a pretty weak weapon to begin with and could probably stand to keep the damage buff, revert its cooldown back to 4s, and play with the heat increase until it feels right.

I like that we touched on Autocannon velocities but I feel like the changes ought to be inverted in scale. The AC/2 is already one of the strongest ballistics in the game and didn't really need a velocity buff. It's the AC/20 that feels like it's flying through molasses. Buff the AC/2 by 50 m/s if you want to, but the AC/20 needs another 200 m/s at least.

Light Gauss cooldown nerfs seem like overkill.

[Krizalius]

CLAN AC20 not changed - 750 speed

[Reno Blade]

Nesutizale, on 15 March 2021 - 12:23 PM, said:

PPC Change...right idea, wrong execution I think. While widening the room to design the weapons is good you just slapped one change on everything. Give the weapons more character with the "room" you make.

I think the basic idea should be more in this direction:

PPC - The basis for all PPCs. The workinghorse of the line with nothing special.

ER-PPC - Extended range with more heat and weight but also faster velocitiy. For people who want to snipe with an energie weapon. Similar to the Light Gauss or Gauss, exchangeing ammo for heat.

Light PPC - Smaller the the standart with less damage and weight. Usefull for pilots that want PPCs in the lights and mediums because of the pinpoint damage compared to lasers spreading easly.

Heavy PPC - Heavy weight, lots of heat but also the damage over long ranges. That is similar to the ER-PPC as its basicly the energy Gauss.

Snubnose PPC - I would still entertain the idea of makeing this a shotgun PPC. Similar to the Clan ER-PPC with a spread to the next two sections.

Clan ER-PPC - I this is where you could play with the cooldown. A heavy hitter but with the drawback that you don't do it that often.

I think similar changes to the "character" of weapons would be good for the Gauss line.
Where its working well is for Autocannons. You have slugs, clusters and rotary and the IS and Clan firing pattern. That makes the different kinds actualy interesting as they have either special use cases or give people different styles of play.

I realy like to take an IS-AC20 and push it into people faces over nearly every other cannon because it just feels good.
On the other hand firing a bunch of racs like you are a madman is also entertaining from time to time. Not efficient maybe but it feels good to satisfy my inner ORC.

Values and meta and balance are fine and maybe good for the 1% but fun in diversity and choice of playstyle are also importend...maybe even more.
I did say lets first find the character and niche for all the weapons and then care about values.
------------------

Maps

CAUSTIC VALLEY
I think I haven't played that map enough lately...whats the differance?
Also for the sun to beeing so low ... shouldn't there be more shadows on the ground? Sure all the fog might scatter the light a lot so that there is a lot of ambient lighting leaveing no or very faint shadows.

HIBERNAL RIFT
Now that looks good. Seams I won't be snowblind anymore and there are more details visible. Have to see it live to see how I like it.

I like this.

i expected something more in line of that:

• LPPC -> cd reduction (better dps, but still same dmg/heat trade)
  
• PPC/HPPC/SNPPC -> heat reduction, splash added but speed nerfed (harder to hit, but better dmg and efficiency to get closer to lasers)
  
• Gauss -> Heat increase (from 1 to 3 or so to nerf gauss+laser synergy)
  
• LGauss simply dmg buff to 10 (to keep high dps without buffing dmg too much)
  
• AC2 velocty reduction or heat nerf
  
• AC20 velocity buff and heat reduction

PPC/Gauss should be rewarding in regards to hard-to-hit instead of hard-to-heatmanage (which it already is compared to other boats laser/missile/ac)


Spamm AC2 should be harder to master (e.g. harder to hit) while AC20 should be able to compete with AC10 efficiency for range/velocity/heat


but the patchnotes go in the opposite direction??

I could live with the DMG/CD change, but LPPC, SNPPC, LGauss changes make no sense. HGauss should get a hefty Heat increase (3-4 heat) while these 3 weapons should get buffed (like AC2s boat compared to AC20)

Edited by Reno Blade, 16 March 2021 - 11:01 AM.

[QContinuum]

After a 3 year Hiatus I returned to MWO at the end of Dec. Here are my thoughts on the game and PGI since I came back.

They talk of limited resources to make changes because they are broke. They say they listen to the community but from responses it's overwhelmingly obvious that they don't.

PGI own match making is broken beyond repair, their own results show this. Their Idea to fix the match making is to nerf the weapons and mechs. First one of two reason they are hoping that you will buy the new mechs and weapons systems, and two that they will give the new players a fighting chance. Neither will happen from this. The good players will just figure out new configs and definitely won't be spending and new players will be fed to the grinder that is the match maker with typical unchanged results.

The fact that they can say this is all at the request of the community with a straight face just goes to show how out of touch with everyone and the game they truly are.

It has been this way since the beginning. The match maker has always been broken. They want to force players to play by their rules alone hoping to build the next WOW or LOL.

Their first nerf was to take out knockdown...
Then they nerfed the laser vomits with ghost heat.
Killed gauss with charge time but kept explosive damage which doesn't make technical sense.
Missiles were the next on the chopping block...
Now the rest of the weapons that skilled pilots use..

Don't even get me started on the pilots score.. They don't give credit for most of the daring flanking maneuvers or the lone wolf smashing from a over watch snipe position. Or that single pilot holding a pushing line of 2 lances while his team is off chasing lights. The roles of each class has been lost.. The only thing a win or loss should change is money. A good pilot is a good pilot whether his side gets wiped or not. This works the same for tag alongs, No way you get good marks just because the team you were on won. If your a bad pilot on a winning team your still a bad pilot and your score should reflect that.

PGI can never admit they had a broken match making from the start because then they would have to admit that they had always been wrong. They wanted people to come along and be forced to continuously buy new gear, seeing how that's the new thing in gaming. We're lucky as players that this game hasn't become all about who can spend the most money but they are trying still to make that the reality.

As with any company they care more about their bottom line then the game or the players. You can tell that they really don't understand the genre about their game. I mean clan mechs are supposed to be stronger then IS mechs that's the way it is. If they really wanted balance they would have just let players add clan weapons to IS mechs. Would have been the easiest way to balance things.

Just like all the various previous versions of this game it's been broken and unfortunately on it's death bed and life support. I mean if they don't have money to fix simple things like maps how will they ever afford to truly fix the game and make it what it could be. They will just continue to nerf things in the hopes that they will fix it all with a smile and a comment on how we asked for these changes..

As soon as work picks back up again and my time becomes limited won't be this game that i pay to play any more. I've already dumped over 500$ on it and that's enough for a broken game. To the rest if you want to see real changes then stop spending, that's the only way PGI will ever make changes for the better.

[Alex Morgaine]

PLEASE NOTE: weapons do not appear to be changed, MASC still gives 100+ to speed and maneuver. it appears, even in live game, that weapon MASC changes were held. anyone feeling like thier stuff is performing differently may be personal/mental not actual. LGR base cooldown is still sub 3 seconds from live match.

[Vladimir Jorgensson]

Check the stats of weapons ok? The ARE changed. For example shadow cat without quirks for ppc takes forever to reload.
Warhawk Prime is somewhat more tolerable, barely. Still a food for any light that will want to dine on it because of longer CD.
Executioner now take forever to turn around.

Edited by Vladimir Jorgensson, 16 March 2021 - 11:07 AM.

[R E T I]

And now you have broken Faction Play.