704 replies to this topic

[Kodan Black]

I understand the MW5 stuff going out is a big focus, but I think that losing sight of MWO at a key time is unfortunate.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 05 May 2021 - 06:33 PM, said:

My preliminary findings show that matches of 4min 30sec or less are becoming more common.. prior to patch matches under 4:00 were a rarity, now not so much.. uber short matches is the 'new norm'. Lights are definitely getting one shot more often.. not a good time to be a light pilot. When matches do drag on it's usually due to a ppc shc or spider. Yes some of the changes were needed.. but many were not..

One match with a battle time over 4 minutes and 30 seconds doesn't prove a trend of matches below 4 minutes and 30 seconds

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 May 2021 - 01:13 PM, said:

One match with a battle time over 4 minutes and 30 seconds doesn't prove a trend of matches below 4 minutes and 30 seconds

My findings are coming from my own experience playing the game since patch..the photos were pointing to the comments someone was making..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 07 May 2021 - 03:43 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 May 2021 - 01:13 PM, said:

One match with a battle time over 4 minutes and 30 seconds doesn't prove a trend of matches below 4 minutes and 30 seconds

Don't go down the rabbit hole haha.


All I can say is checking my game times (not just one, dozens) pre/post patch - the average is near the same. There has been no significant decrease or change. My game times have remained largely the same.

[DAEDALOS513]

justcallme A S H, on 07 May 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

Don't go down the rabbit hole haha.


All I can say is checking my game times (not just one, dozens) pre/post patch - the average is near the same. There has been no significant decrease or change. My game times have remained largely the same.

Again, I didn't post that screenshot for the game time..anyway.. there has been a change.. the bar on the short side of match time's has definitely moved even lower.. match times under 4 minutes were much rarer pre-patch.. While the bar for longer match times may have moved as well to the plus side.. but this is only because shc's with ppc's are in almost every match causing games to drag on at the end while every one tries to chase it down..

[Sawk]

Hi all
wanted to tell you from a clanner, point of view, the ultra cannons still jam to much, as compared to the rotary cannon, i have been testing this. for some time, i use a shooting all weapons-- and switch to shooting them single, or chained.
i also reboot my computer, to reset set my test mechs, result is that ultra cannons is a 1 in 5, chance still of jamming, in other words every 5th time there OK, so its ok if you use 1 ultra cannon, but your better off with an LBX.
Maybe 1 day some one will do the test i do, but for now avoid the ultra cannons, it ok to single shoot, but do not push it.

SAWK

[Bowelhacker]

justcallme A S H, on 07 May 2021 - 03:45 PM, said:

Don't go down the rabbit hole haha.


All I can say is checking my game times (not just one, dozens) pre/post patch - the average is near the same. There has been no significant decrease or change. My game times have remained largely the same.

To be fair your anecdata is no batter than his anecdata. Are there official stats on it?

[justcallme A S H]

Bowelhacker, on 08 May 2021 - 01:15 AM, said:

To be fair your anecdata is no batter than his anecdata. Are there official stats on it?

Except there is information available on match time

[Dogstar]

DAEDALOS513, on 29 April 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

The "crickets* says it all..

They have said in the past that there are a range of pilots in the Cauldron.

[MechB Kotare]

The way i see it:

Pre balancepatched short games
People: ''Wow, my team so sucked, gg matchmaker. This game sucks now PGI...''

After balancepatched short games
Those same people: '' Woow ttk is so short now, gg cauldron. This game sucks now PGI...''

[DAEDALOS513]

Like I said if match times show longer or even same on average.. it's due to the prevalance of PPC shc's that are found in almost every match since the patch.. match times are greatly skewed due to chasing that last ppc shadowcat.. one thing i do know.. the patch has broken the minimum match time barrier.. it's alot more common now to have matches ending under 4 minutes..

MechB Kotare, on 08 May 2021 - 06:22 AM, said:

The way i see it:

Pre balancepatched short games
People: ''Wow, my team so sucked, gg matchmaker. This game sucks now PGI...''

After balancepatched short games
Those same people: '' Woow ttk is so short now, gg cauldron. This game sucks now PGI...''

Exactly.. they went the wrong way with the patch and made matters worse by buffing things that had no business getting buffed.. everyone should get an immediate doubling of armour because resize ain't gonna happen this year..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2021 - 12:12 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Bowelhacker, on 08 May 2021 - 01:15 AM, said:

To be fair your anecdata is no batter than his anecdata. Are there official stats on it?

The stats provided don't mean much because it looks like they are mixing all the tiers into one big ball.. tier 3 and 4 matches will drag on much longer than tiers' 1 and 2. Also not taken into consideration are all the ppc shc's that are found in most matches and that usually end up being chased for a long time at the end of a match. Both these will falsely skew results towards longer match times..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2021 - 12:41 PM.

[Bowelhacker]

justcallme A S H, on 08 May 2021 - 05:35 AM, said:

Except there is information available on match time

Then say that instead of "my match times". *eyeroll*

[justcallme A S H]

My match times reflect the stats - basically no change.

So it lines up exactly which is quite important.

No "SHC" every game and all the other nonsense.

[C337Skymaster]

ShooterMcGavin80, on 05 April 2021 - 02:00 PM, said:

Agreed, this is very sensible to me. I would say if you have a Kodiak with an XL400, it would make you... say... 10 to 15% more agile than a baseline KDK? With a sliding scale from 0 to 15% more agile for every engine size above a stock engine. Have to be careful how this would stack though with a fully skilled out agility tree, just to make sure you're not having assaults out-performing lights or mediums with twist rates.

Stock Kodiak comes with an XL400 engine, so that would be its "baseline" already. The real way to undo all the nerfs to the KDK is to get rid of the inflated ballistic hardpoints (convert them to energy if you want, or missile, or something). The KDK's claim to fame is speed and agility, not firepower.

byter75, on 08 April 2021 - 01:19 AM, said:

Just like how ams stacks linearly, shuting down missile play making it unreliable and less fun. So too can streaks & atm boating shut down an entire weightclass/playstyle making it unreliable and less fun. Because we can't control how good lockons are against different weight classes, we can't address their effects on play as easily. Right now streaks have to be decent enough against larger mechs but that damage potenial comes down with equal force against mechs with smaller health pools. This awkward arms race between missiles and ams is because our options are somewhat limited causing us to almost always land on a generally unsatifying compromise. Similarly, if we can't adjust lockon effectiveness according to who you are shooting at, then we always have to balance their effectiveness against all targets at once, leading to more awkward compromises.

I wonder if there's any way to split up streak boats, so it's not "all-or-nothing". Streaks were supposed to be "fire-if-hit, hold-if-miss", so if you rolled a hit with one of them, and a miss with the other three, only the one would fire and use ammo. I remember reading a line in one of the books where Victor Davion, in his DWF-A, was shooting at something and "one of his streak launchers shot a salvo, while the other failed to get a lock".

Navid A1, on 09 April 2021 - 11:13 AM, said:

Explaining how LRMs function doesn't make them any less risk- or effort-free... you don't do the tracking... the game does. Most of the time, you don't even need to reposition, or see the enemy... you just lob cancer into the sky, and unless there is a corsair or two in the game, the enemy is really going to have a bad time. If target lock sharing wasn't a thing in MWO, then you would have been 100% right. But target sharing is a thing, and LRMs are risk- and effort-free. Regarding ATMs, I'd suggest you do a test with a friend before listing theoretical results. Try to find similar LBX boats that can can have the same damage output, high speed, and jumpjets.

So you're nerfing Vapor Eagles?

I strongly disagree with this sentiment with the current state of LRMs in the game. LRMs require a LOT of effort to play effectively, and you need to be exceptionally good at multitasking to minimize your risk.

Because you need to keep the team between yourself and the enemy, and because NASCAR is such a prevalent phenomenon, missile boats actually need to move FASTER than the rest of the team, because they're maintaining a larger radius around the pivot point, and consequently have a greater distance to travel. This makes stopping to acquire and hold a lock much more penalizing, while trying to acquire a lock on the move involves too much bouncing to be completed in a timely manner. Add to that that it takes forever and a day to solidify the lock, at which point the target is usually gone, anyway, and LRM boats are effectively shut out of indirect fire support at ranges in excess of 300m, at which distance counter-battery fire is hugely effective.

For direct fire, the time required to line up a target, lock the target, fire the missiles, and then guide them to the target (which is done by you, not by the computer, by maintaining the lock in a very narrow cone over the target), requires more face-time than even heavy lasers do, usually at much shorter effective ranges, and with much more widely distributed damage. The only remaining benefit is the amount of heat generated for the total damage done, which is much lower for missiles than for heavy lasers.

All that said, I agree with the target lock sharing thing. I actually misunderstood how C3 computers were supposed to work, and came up with an interesting game mechanic based on my misunderstanding: My idea was that in order to share target info, you need a complete C3 network (which means you need one person per lance with the 5 ton computer, while everyone else in the lance uses the 1-ton slave). Anyone without the computer doesn't get data except from UAV's and NARC beacons. TAGs should work something like automated guidance, BUT that also means the missiles should hit dirt if that's where the laser is pointing.

Something else I've wanted since I started playing the game and bought my first Catapult, is the ability to fire on a grid-square from the battle map. It should come with extreme spread (it'd need it to cover an entire grid square), and if we had it, we wouldn't really need artillery strikes, anymore, because LRMs would serve the function of raining on an entrenched enemy. I mean, I wouldn't mind if we had 'mech artillery (Arrow/Long Tom), but short of that, grid-targeting with LRMs would be almost as good.

Krasnopesky, on 12 April 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

While lore and both factions having a distinct role is important, it is not the primary focus of the coming patch.

This makes me really, really sad.

Krasnopesky, on 12 April 2021 - 05:15 AM, said:

Looking at the current and historic meta and considering the quirks Mechs have is very important when considering balance.

So Vapor Eagles are losing their JJ quirk? (Honestly, if they're gonna have that, then Phoenix Hawks should have one at least as good).

Speaking on Jump Jets: I would love to see the reticle shake extended to cover any time a 'mech is airborne (including a non jj-equipped 'mech falling off a ledge), even increased if necessary to discourage lockon weapons, then have JJ capacity restored so Assault 'mechs with JJ can actually use them to reposition, MWLL style.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 11 May 2021 - 05:19 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

Z Paradox, on 15 April 2021 - 06:43 AM, said:

you know, Narc is not registring hit ~20%-30% of the time ( one game I was 1 vs 1 (rvn vs cp) and I shot him with narc from 130m 3 times and it didnt reg at all, ppl waching me was like wtf...) so more ammo is not a big deal... and btw, I like my rvn without S.Armor and in close range vs enemy...

Next time your NARC won't land, keep an eye out for nearby AMS systems, and possibly try grouping the NARC together with a flight of SRMs. (Or fire two NARCs as a pair at the same target). That's one thing I've noticed before, is that NARC has a hard time getting past even a single AMS system, and has next to no hope of getting past more than one if it's not accompanied by other missiles for the AMS to shoot at.

[C337Skymaster]

Vercors, on 16 April 2021 - 06:12 AM, said:

Radar:
I think it is strange (unreal) that the radar can detect allied mechs (also stealthy) in all situations, the detection of all mechs could be the same whether they are enemy or friendly. Making this change may have an impact on the nascaring problem, because seeing many allied mechs going in one direction encourages following them.
Stealth mechs, because they will be undetectable on all radars, should be able to change their status (detectable/undetectable) without delay, to avoid being mistaken for enemies when they want to join their teammate. Moreover, an option before the start of the match should warn the teammates which are the stealthy mechs to facilitate their recognition on the field.
This option should radically change the way we play, I understand that it can be annoying, but I think it can bring more fun to the game.

So you're confusing Radar with IFF. Identification Friend-or-Foe broadcasts a signal that is on a unique frequency only your allies can receive, which is generally turned on, even while running super-stealthy, for the specific purpose of identifying yourself to your allies so you don't get killed by friendly fire. Since this system is true-to-life, the other part of it that would be true-to-life is an on/off switch...

[C337Skymaster]

Beastmaster33, on 18 April 2021 - 04:06 PM, said:

Really late to the thread due to PC problems, but did anybody else have concern over nerfing the IS SSRM 4s and 6s? I have a couple 'mechs that use them to pretty good effect, but between the lock on times and abundance of ECM/Stealth currently in the game, I would not call them overpowered by any means. In fact, I hardly ever saw more than 1 or 2 'mechs per match using streaks compared to the plethora of autocannons, gauss, ERPPCs, lasers, and regular SRMS. Am I missing something?

Also, IS regular AC20 should be able to fire 2 at once without heat penalty again. 2x Heavy Gauss = 50 damage, 3xppc = 30 damage, 2x Clan ERPPC=30 damage, 2x Heavy PPC = 30 damage, and 2x Gauss = 30 damage. Why are IS AC20s with their range limitations still capped at 20 damage without heat spikes?

Really looking forward to seeing the rest of the changes in action though. Starting to crunch numbers between large lasers, ER large lasers, and large pulse lasers to potentially update several of my heavy and assault 'mechs.

In case you haven't had the five days required to catch up with the length of this thread, the cliffs notes reason IS AC/20's didn't get loosened to 2-at-a-time is because of Snubnosed PPCs. You can fire one AC/20 in combination with three SNPPCs for 50 dmg and no ghost heat. A 2nd AC/20 would make that 70 dmg and no ghost heat. I agree that the KGC needs love, but until they link AC/20 and SNPPC ghost heat into one group, that's going to continue to be an issue, and the KGC is exactly the 'mech with the tonnage and hardpoints to exploit it.

[DAEDALOS513]

[Gas Guzzler]

GaelicWolf, on 28 April 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

Any pilots below tier 1-2 should be the question asked.

Why?

Why would Tier 3-5 players understand game balance?